Financing vs. buying older model?

[Lady_Katie]

In your opinion, is it better to finance a newer motorhome, or to pay cash for an older one (10 - 15 years old.) - or maybe something in between - like a heafty down payment on 6ish year old model. We have never owned a motorhome before. I am estimating that our yearly use would be approximately 4 - 6 weekend trips within a 300 mile radius (or less) and one or two longer trips within a 700 mile radius. I have no idea if this is accurate or not (since we've never done this), or if this is considered average use, or what. I'm just taking my best guess. I would be surprised if we used it less than that.

I could see my husband handling most of the repairs and maintenance that the actual house part (is there a word for this?) would need, but he is not a mechanic, so any repairs to the part that you drive (is there a word for THIS? The cockpit? lol) we would have to bring it in for - so that's a factor.

Obviously I don't know what I'm talking about here, so any advice is helpful! Thanks!

[ScottG]

Renting is a great idea if you can find something you want to spend time in.
I wish we had done that many years ago when we bought our first Popup. At the time it seemed like a fun way to go but we ended up hating it.
I also think it's a good idea not to buy your first RV new. Once you have something you will undoubtedly find you like or want specific things that your rig doesn't have. Make a list of these things you really need and want and then buy your second RV new with everything just right for you.

[ron_dittmer]

Renting one will provide a great experience to determine if you would want to own one. If you decide you want a used one, I highly recommend you buy a quality-made used one with the following considerations. I would rather buy a quality used one for a little less money rather than a entry-level new one for a little more money.

Ron
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New, used, or well used, when shopping for a conventional class B+ or C, the most important consideration is how it is constructed. This post outlines construction methods which are most affordable and methods that cost more, but are built to hold up much better to the elements and also the punishment of the road.

Some motor home manufactures offer different levels of quality through their various model lines. Instead of providing a list of brands to consider, it is best to identify what "Better" is.

When shopping for a motor home, don't get distracted with what I call "Eye Candy" or "Square Footage". You want to pay close attention to how the house is constructed. Water infiltration is the number one killer of motor homes, rotting them away long before anything is worn out. Once water gets inside, it is like termites. By the time you realize there is a problem, a lot of damage has already occurred. Also consider that mold & mildew can grow inside the walls which then you have a health hazard. My advise focuses on identifying a reliably well sealed motor home.

#1 BEST (Very Expensive, Can Be 1.5 times the cost of Second Best)
NO structural seam work. The brand Coach House is a fine example. It is seamless, made from a mold. The only places where water can leak is cutouts for windows, entry door, roof-top vents & a/c unit, storage compartments & maintenance access, all of which are in areas of very low stress. Because they have a seamless shell, these motor homes have a limited selection of sizes.

#2 SECOND BEST
Common, Affordable, & comes in Many Sizes so this is my main focus
I own an example of this type. My Rig Here manufactured by Phoenix USA.
Made in sections, but assembled in a way that greatly reduces the threat of water damage. Here are the good things you want to look for.

a) Structural Seams Away From Corners
When a motor home is driven, the house bounces, resonates, shakes, and leans countless times, representing a series of extended continuous earthquakes. Corner seams see greater stresses than seams located elsewhere. Corner seams are more easily split, especially when the caulk gets brittle with age & exposure to the sun. One extremely bad bump in the road can instantly breach a corner seam. Seams hold up much better when they are brought in from the corners in lesser stressed areas.

b) A Seamless Over-The-Van Front Cap
A huge bed above the van’s roof is the most vulnerable area of a motor home. No matter how well they are made, that long frontal over-hang resonates when the RV is driven. It is common for seams to split there, most troublesome with age & exposure to the elements. HERE is a more recent example, one of many I have read. The small front aerodynamic cap of a B+ design HERE eliminates the overhang which eliminates most of the resonation, along with most seam work.

There are a few conventional “C” Designs (big over-van bed) where that area is seamless. If you absolutely must have that huge bed, then look for a seamless bucket-like design. Born Free offers a seamless bucket design as seen in This Model. The Itasca Navion Here is another fine example. Some manufactures as of late offer a partial bucket design with fewer seams located in less-stressed areas. Some manufacture models like the Minnie Winnie and the Nexus Phantom utilize a compromising partial bucket design, making it a better choice compared to a fully seamed cab-over bed.

If you plan to accommodate more than 2 people, having that large extra cab-over bed will be extremely useful.

c) A Crowned Roof
Rain and snow melt runs off a crowned roof. A flat roof will sag over time, then water puddles around heavy roof-top items like the a/c unit. Water eventually finds it's way inside after gaskets & caulk have degraded from age, sun, and change in seasons.

d) Rolled-Over-The-Edge seamless Fiberglass Roof Sheathing
A single sheet of fiberglass as shown HERE that rolls over the right & left sides of the roof, down to the wall. The overlapping of fiberglass to the wall provides a good water seal and the fiberglass sheathing holds up better than roofs made of sheet rubber or thin plastic called TPO, which require more attention to keep your RV well protected.

e) A Five Sided Rear Wall Cap
A five sided back wall moves the seams around to the sides to areas of much less stress as seen HERE. The rear wall resembles a shallow rectangular cooking pan standing on it's side. Like the example, some rear wall sections are constructed with an integrated spare tire compartment and rear storage compartment. Not only are they convenience features, but that rear wall/cap offers a solid double-wall for exceptional strength which is more resistant to flexing the adjoining seam work.

Don't be fooled. There are a select few manufactures who add rear wall sectional styling pieces over an entry level rear corner seam design which gives the appearance of a 5-sided pan design. You can easily tell by noting the sections & seams between them and the flat back wall that remains exposed.

Bigger Will Be Weaker
The size & floor plan you select MUST FIRST meet your needs before this consideration.
The bigger the house, the weaker the structure will be. Consider two cardboard boxes made from the exact same corrugated material. The smaller box would naturally be stronger. It will be more resistant to bending, twisting, and other types of flexing. So if you are on the fence between models, the smaller one will be your stronger choice.

Potentially Troublesome Construction
Entry level motor homes are made with seams in corners and finished off with trim, including the massive cab-over bed. Their roof is flat and finished with rubber or TPO. They are most affordable, and come in all sizes. HERE is one such example. If considering this construction type, keep in-mind they require more regular care with bi-annual inspections. Plan to use a caulking gun now and then. When buying a used one, consider that you really don't know how well the previous owner maintained it. Buying new or used, that construction method will be counting on you to be a good non-neglectful owner.

There are also the rare exception of the Lazy Daze which has seam work in the corners, but the substructure and sealing method is of the highest quality that it holds up like a seamless body. It's excellent sectional construction methods are not commonly found in other brands. I am no expert on this, but I'd give it a #1.5 Almost Like Best

About The Chassis
The most popular is the Ford E-Series with the V10 engine. The Sprinter diesel is a popular alternative to the E350 in the smaller sizes. Also within this past year is the recent introduction of the Ford Transit. The GM chassis is not popular, but is a very good choice for the right application. Any of these chassis made since 1998 are real good, new or used. If you plan to tow a car or heavy trailer, be aware that the Sprinter & Transit will be least powered. People who tow with them naturally take it slower.

If considering a current-day “small” class B+ or C motor home, here is a comparison between the two current main contenders, the Sprinter with the V6 diesel engine and the Ford E350 with the V10 gasoline engine.

Advantages Of The Mercedes Sprinter With Diesel Engine
- Offers a 35%-50% improvement in fuel economy over the Ford-V10, when both are loaded and driven identically.
- More ergonomic driver compartment with more leg room.
- Comfort continues with a car-like feel & quiet ride.
- A grander view out the windshield
- Made by Mercedes which people are attracted to.

Advantages Of The Ford E350 with V10 Engine
- Given identical motor homes both brand and model, the Ford is around $13,000 MSRP cheaper
- The Ford V10 engine has 50% more horse power and torque
- The Ford E350 chassis handles 1430 pounds more weight.
- The E350 is able to tow a heavier load.
- The E350 rear axle is significantly wider which translates to better stability.
- In most places traveled, gasoline costs less than diesel fuel
- The Sprinter diesel has limited mechanical service shops around North America
- The Sprinter diesel is typically outfitted with a propane generator. Propane is a critical fuel for RV operations, and generally needs to be rationed when dry camping.
- This Next Point Is Debatable But Still Worth Noting....The V6 Sprinter diesel engine is not allowed to idle for extended periods. This limitation is detrimental when you need a/c but there are generator restrictions or you are dangerously low on propane, or you have a mechanical failure with the generator or roof a/c. The Ford V10 can safely idle for hours on end, heating, cooling, and battery charging, all valuable if you have a baby, pets, or health/respiratory issues.

You decide what your priorities are, and pick the appropriate chassis. There are some really sweet motor homes being built exclusively on the Sprinter chassis, such as the Winnebago Via, View and View Profile. Others like Phoenix USA build their model 2350 and 2400 on both the Sprinter and Ford E350. They will even build it on the heaviest duty E450 upon request for a nominal fee. People who request an E450 for a small motor home, tow heavier things like for example, a multi-horse trailer. You can even special order a E350 & E450 4x4.

There is so much cool stuff offered in recent years on the Sprinter and most recently on the new Ford Transit.

The Ford Transit Chassis
This chassis has the potential to dominate the class B+ & C motor home market in the smaller sizes. According to Ford's website, the Transit DRW chassis is offered in the 156", and 178" wheel base, and is rated as high as 10,360 GVWR. Ford offers a motor home package specific for the RV industry. It's diesel engine compares to the Sprinter in power and fuel economy, but is more affordable and is easily serviced at Ford service centers, just like the E350/E450. The cab has a much lower stance than the Sprinter making it much more friendly to get into and out from for people in their later years. It's more like a mini-van rather than a standard van. The Transit's lower cab also offers roomier over-head bunks that are easier to access.

The Dodge Promaster 3500 Cut-Away Chassis
This front wheel drive chassis is another recent entry in the RV industry. I am concerned over it's lack of load capability as reflected with single free-wheeling rear wheels. I have been reading posts written by new Promaster RV owners stating they are over-weight with just two people, some personal effects and food. They say they can't carry water and never a 3rd person. I would not be comfortable with such a limited load range in a B+ or C. This chassis does seem ideal for the straight "B" motor home market.

The Chevy 3500/4500 Chassis
Unfortunately this chassis is not more popular, primarily because GM sort-of gave up on competing with the Ford E350/E450. It offers more interior comfort than the Ford, but not as much as the Sprinter. It's power & weight ratings are a little less than their Ford counter-parts making them a great chassis for all but the heaviest of class Cs. They are also a little better on fuel consumption. One thing to keep in-mind, if you are counting inches in storing your rig, the Chevy is a little longer than the Ford by a number of inches which was critical for us with our garage as seen HERE with our Ford 2007 E350 rig. That could be the reason why the Chevy has a little more interior driver/passenger leg room.

Engine Power Ratings of Ford, MB-Sprinter, Chevy, and Dodge
Ford E350/E450 - 6.8L-V10, 305hp, 420ft
Ford Transit Diesel - 3.2L-I5, 185hp, 350ft
Mercedes Sprinter Diesel - 3.0L-V6, 188hp, 325ft
Chevy 3500/4500 - 6.0L-V8, 323hp, 373ft
Dodge Promaster - 3.6L-V6 (GVW only 9,300 pounds)

[DownTheAvenue]

I will chime in here and recommend renting first. You will know after that experience if you really want a motorhome. And for your use, as previously mentioned, buying an ex-rental is the best option for you. Look at www.cruiseamerica.com

[TyroneandGladys]

Rent first is a great idea.
When buying must not have any leaks.
When you do decide to buy would suggest looking for a mobile RV mechanic in your area and find out what they charge for a PDI pre delivery inspection. This should uncover the pigs with lipstick that were mentioned.

[IAMICHABOD]

As others have said,renting a RV is a very good idea to get your feet wet as they say and see if you really like it.

The large RV companies will also put the rental price that you paid for the rental toward the price of a purchase of a Former Rental if you decide to buy one.

I found that it suited my needs and budget and the type of use that I wanted,similar to what you want to do. Just another option to look at as you do your research. Good Luck.

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

Katie - a word of advice on buying a used RV:

Hubby and I own a small used-car lot; and as a licensed vehicle dealer, also have access to RV auctions. Yesterday I spent 5 hours watching a large RV auction in Orlando that dealers from all over the USA were attending. I was sort of stunned by the number of used-RV lots that were buying RVs that have definite things wrong with them - delaminated walls; interior water leaks; rusted-away frames, salvage titles, etc. It makes me wonder how many are simply putting "lipstick on the pig" and reselling for a tidy profit? I'll be following some of the units that were sold, to see where they end up, if at all?? (Maybe they were being parted-out to fix other RVs? Although paying a premium wholesale price for something, then hauling it back home, just for parts - doesn't exactly make sense)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'd feel better buying a used RV from a private owner (bringing along an RV-knowledgeable friend or mechanic), than off a used lot (Unless I either knew the dealer well, or they were backing up their unit with a warranty)

[DrewE]

Renting once to try out RVing is a great idea.

There certainly are plenty of older RVs for sale that are hunks of junk. But there are others that are just fine. It mostly boils down to how well maintained they were. (The asking price doesn't always correlate very precisely with condition, either.)

One decent option is to buy an ex-rental unit from one of the major rental companies. CruiseAmerica is, I think, the largest rental company and their program of refurbishing their used units before selling them is generally very thorough.

[Lady_Katie]

Thank you, everyone! And thank you for not being negative about my being a newbie. I am so relieved to hear everyone say that paying cash on an older model makes the most sense. I am not comfortable financing something like this, but I kind of had it in my mind that older models might be hunks of junk due to the huge differences in price that I'm seeing. If I can pay less and get something that is reasonably reliable, then that is the obvious way to go.

Also, I think that renting an RV is a GREAT idea! I had not considered doing this as a way to "try it before we buy it", but it does make perfect sense.

Thank you again for being so helpful 🙂

[ncscz]

cgmartine wrote:
...
I would suggest to you that perhaps renting would be a lot cheaper than buying, and might give you the experience to make a better decision.

That is the best advice that you will hear. One rental trip will answer many questions and will cause you to ask questions that you had not considered.

[jrobe]

Reminds me of the old saying - "the difference between poor people and rich people is that poor people pay interest and rich people collect interest."

[cgmartine]

There is a good possibility that your motorhome might turn out to be a "garage queen," unless you use it often, and I mean, not just once a month. I would suggest to you that perhaps renting would be a lot cheaper than buying, and might give you the experience to make a better decision.

[big_jim_2]

If you thought is a new one will be less trouble, read some of the posts from new owners that dream has been a nightmare. I would feel more confident taking my 13 year old diesel Bounder to Alaska than a new one fresh off the lot. Having said that I know repairs would out of my pocket rather then the manufacture but most things are minor and I am confident I could do them myself.

[downtheroad]

Financing an RV - it's easy to get upside down with payments and depreciation...especially on a new unit.
I agree with what Mike Leslie posted above and it's our rule too.
" Our 'rule' is 'pay cash for toys". Save up.

[DrewE]

Generally speaking, the house part will need more ongoing upkeep than the chassis. That is doubly or triply true for new RVs, where the chassis probably won't need anything significant done for several years/tens of thousands of miles, but the upkeep of the house starts pretty much immediately with things like making sure the sealants for things on the roof is in good shape (and renewing if needed) and such.

I think it makes more sense, of the options you described, to find a used motorhome in good shape and pay cash. You will never owe more on it than it's worth. You'll also be more likely to have it keep a larger portion of its value should you decide to sell at some point.

It's often hard to figure out exactly what you will want in an RV until you've had and used one for awhile. Looking at a bunch of options is always a good start, of course, and thinking about what you plan to do and what it would be like to live in it while you do that, but there are lots and lots of little (and not so little) things that really only start to make sense after actually using it. This all means that there's a pretty good chance that, despite one's best attempt to the contrary, the first RV won't be ideal for you, and you might start thinking about replacing it somewhat sooner than you first anticipated.

If your husband is reasonably handy, he could probably manage a lot of the chassis repairs and upkeep. Most of the basic sorts of things that need doing are not much different from a car, just bigger, which sometimes makes things easier and sometimes harder. For the most part, though, the chassis that motorhomes are built on are quite reliable and don't need a lot of TLC.

[Mike_Leslie]

We'll all have different views. 🙂 Our 'rule' is 'pay cash for toys". Save up.

There are very nice, well taken care of older models. You'll find out how much you'll use it, and like it, without a huge debt. You can always trade up.

Go on campouts with camping clubs (FMCA, GoodSams, WIT etc.) Join forums like this one, brand specific, irv etc) We have learned much that way. And have met many nice people on campouts.

Mike Leslie
2003 Winnebago Minnie