HwH is getting Ridiculous

[David0725]

I called HWh again today the same one girl that answered the phone is kind of Snoddy I have been on the list for a month now she just verified that. She tells me we only have one guy he will get back to you when he can. Smh.. I only have a couple questions to ask the guy. One is where can I find parts like new spring? Is HWh going out of business? They are leaving alot of us hanging right now. I CAN FIX what ever it is that needs fixed buy I need parts and to no what parts to buy.

[Bruce_Brown]

This one has deteriorated enough.

[RLS7201]

Racklefratz wrote:

dougrainer wrote:
Rick.Jay. THANKS. Racklefratz is exactly what ails ALL repair and Parts servicers. Of course, HE does not see it that way. WHY does he think RV's are different from Autos in parts and service?

Well, the answer is that RV service and auto service are apples and oranges, but you people are in terminal denial of that, simply because it exposes the problems in the RV service business you people are complicit in.

It IS, what it IS. The RV service business is abysmal, and you know it. You're just trying to put a happy face on it, and most of us owners see it what what it is - frustrating and disgusting.

I may be in the minority of RV owners willing to expose you people's lackadasical attitudes for what they are, but I'm here to do it, having 30 year's experience with it.

The auto industry's approach to service-after-the-sale is night-and-day different from that of the RV industry's. Car makers take it very seriously; they want you back as a repeat customer. RV dealers? Nah - once they get your signature on the deal, you're a stranger, and they don't give a rat's ass if they ever see you again - in fact, they HOPE THEY DON'T. And that includes people like YOU, "Doug". You're part of the problem.

Hmmmmmmm. Doug is the most informed person on this forum and he is part of the problem. NOT!
Racklefratz, you need to go away. You have nothing to contribute but hate and discontent.

Richard

[way2roll]

Racklefratz wrote:

dougrainer wrote:
Rick.Jay. THANKS. Racklefratz is exactly what ails ALL repair and Parts servicers. Of course, HE does not see it that way. WHY does he think RV's are different from Autos in parts and service?

Well, the answer is that RV service and auto service are apples and oranges, but you people are in terminal denial of that, simply because it exposes the problems in the RV service business you people are complicit in.

It IS, what it IS. The RV service business is abysmal, and you know it. You're just trying to put a happy face on it, and most of us owners see it what what it is - frustrating and disgusting.

I may be in the minority of RV owners willing to expose you people's lackadasical attitudes for what they are, but I'm here to do it, having 30 year's experience with it.

The auto industry's approach to service-after-the-sale is night-and-day different from that of the RV industry's. Car makers take it very seriously; they want you back as a repeat customer. RV dealers? Nah - once they get your signature on the deal, you're a stranger, and they don't give a rat's ass if they ever see you again - in fact, they HOPE THEY DON'T. And that includes people like YOU, "Doug". You're part of the problem.

Well, you've made it pretty clear from all your posts that everyone else is the problem.

[Racklefratz]

dougrainer wrote:
Rick.Jay. THANKS. Racklefratz is exactly what ails ALL repair and Parts servicers. Of course, HE does not see it that way. WHY does he think RV's are different from Autos in parts and service?

Well, the answer is that RV service and auto service are apples and oranges, but you people are in terminal denial of that, simply because it exposes the problems in the RV service business you people are complicit in.

It IS, what it IS. The RV service business is abysmal, and you know it. You're just trying to put a happy face on it, and most of us owners see it what what it is - frustrating and disgusting.

I may be in the minority of RV owners willing to expose you people's lackadasical attitudes for what they are, but I'm here to do it, having 30 year's experience with it.

The auto industry's approach to service-after-the-sale is night-and-day different from that of the RV industry's. Car makers take it very seriously; they want you back as a repeat customer. RV dealers? Nah - once they get your signature on the deal, you're a stranger, and they don't give a rat's ass if they ever see you again - in fact, they HOPE THEY DON'T. And that includes people like YOU, "Doug". You're part of the problem.

[dougrainer]

Rick.Jay. THANKS. Racklefratz is exactly what ails ALL repair and Parts servicers. Of course, HE does not see it that way. WHY does he think RV's are different from Autos in parts and service? YES, It sometimes takes a lot longer to fix what the customer attempted to do after I actually fix his complaint. I wish HWH had the capability to post calls. My retired wife from BNSF railroad would sometimes email me some of her calls from customers. THESE recorded calls got some hi level people fired(customers, not BNSF employee) after the Railroad listened to these calls. Doug

[Rick_Jay]

Racklefratz,

I don't know why you have a bug up your craw about Doug's comments. He's entitled to his opinions. And I'm sure he's had his share of incidents where the customer made his job more difficult either by trying to fix it themselves, or just being obnoxious.

Near as I can tell, you joined this conversation when Doug mentioned that many people who DO call for help have no idea about model numbers, year of manufacture, etc. You criticized Doug for pointing that out. Again, his experience with such things is far greater than any of us have.

That said, way back when, one of my first jobs was working for a parts distributor for various brands of lawn & garden equipment that supplied what we now call "Big Box Stores". Our business was mostly mail/phone order at the time (WAY before internet) but we also had locals purchase from us over the counter. People would call or come in asking for "new blades for their lawnmower". I'd ask "brand, model and year of manufacture", all of which we needed know in order to be able to help them. I can't tell you how many times we'd get "how do I know, you guys are the experts", and other snarky responses. If a repairman would call, they'd (almost) always have the information at the ready. But John Public, rarely. Sometimes it was kind of humorous how they'd attempt to "help us" figure out what machine they had. They'd say something like "Sears...one of the green ones." Then they'd say "just give me a 22" blade". We'd say we have about 20 DIFFERENT 22" blades in stock and a BUNCH more we can order but DON'T stock. If they were in the store, I'd bring several out to them and ask them "So, which one do YOU think will fit your machine?" Then they finally got the concept that THEY had to be better informed if they wanted US to help them. We don't read minds. Though, once in a while someone would bring in a picture...but NEVER of the manufacturer's data plate. 🙂

All that to say, working with the public can have its challenges. I'm beginning to think that the vast majority of folks out there have to call an electrician to figure out how to change a light bulb, let alone perform electrical work. I think the number of folks on this forum have the stats skewed quite a bit toward people who CAN DO as opposed to those who CANNOT DO. Or, like me, over 2 decades ago, I came here TO LEARN about RVs, as I knew literally nothing about them when I first joined. I could do mechanical work & electrical work of all types, but RV systems were sometimes special cases and the fine folks here (mostly) were willing to help explain things to me. Including Doug. I appreciate this forum for the service it provides and I appreciate the posters who post. Do I agree with all of them all of the time? Of course not, but it is the internet, and like everyone else, I have the option to stay here or move on. Personally, I like it here.

Please know that I do feel for your frustration about not getting a prompt return call. Would it have taken that long 3 years ago, pre-COVID? I don't know. I'm guessing probably not. I do know that many businesses are struggling to stay afloat for a variety of reasons. Many have closed for ever. I won't try to make excuses for HWH other than to say, I don't know what their situation is now compared to previous years. But I think unless we do know more about what challenges they are facing now, we should cut them a little slack. You waited a long time for a response, but at least you got one. If they closed their doors, would we be better off? I don't think so.

As far as bringing your car to the repair shop and getting it back in a day or so? Not necessarily. Not in this current environment. And from what I've learned around here, RV Dealers were notorious for long delays for service calls, even if you purchased your RV at their dealership! Heaven help you if you didn't. I do all my own work, so I'm mostly insulated from that aspect of RV'ing. But I've heard many stories from folks over the years, both pro and con about the various dealers in our area. Sadly, several of them have since closed permanently. Recently. Again, a sign of the times.

Peace, my friend. I hope to chat with you around a campfire some day and perhaps we can share a nice, cold adult beverage and discuss things "RV". With any luck, the world just might be back to normal then. We can hope!

~Rick

[Racklefratz]

Rick Jay wrote:
be thankful that we have posters like Doug with gobs more experience than any of us could ever HOPE to have, and be willing to spend some of his spare time sharing his knowledge and "inside information" with us and helping us out.

C'mon. This has not been about Doug's "gobs of experience". That's not in question.

What IS in question is his knee-jerk criticism of RV owners who want to do their own maintenance, but who encounter problems getting manufacturer support, as I have with HWH. It took literally MONTHS, and that's totally unacceptable.

His attempt to compare that to contacting any of the automobile manufacturers for similar technical support is laughable - cars are one thing, RVs are something else.

Take your car to your dealer to get something fixed, and you get it back in a day or so. When I try the same thing with my local RV dealer, I'm told flatly up front not to expect to see it again for at least a month, or more, and my experience has been that it probably won't even be fixed.

So there ya go - does not compute.

[Rick_Jay]

oldave wrote:
and be thankful we don't live somewhere like Ukraine.

And if I might add...be thankful that we have posters like Doug with gobs more experience than any of us could ever HOPE to have, and be willing to spend some of his spare time sharing his knowledge and "inside information" with us and helping us out.

I don't need things sugar-coated. When I have a problem I need to know how to find a solution to my problem, and Doug has helped many of us on here over the years doing exactly that. Myself included.

Doug, hopefully you're still reading this thread. Please let me say again, thank you for your help! 🙂

~Rick

[oldave]

Racklefratz, I can feel your frustration and anger. You obviously know who Doug is and that he has 40 yrs in the industry so I'm sure he knows a thing or two about RVs. Maybe you do too, we don't know. Now I will agree that Doug is not always as tactful as one might want, but he does share his knowledge and has a right to his opinion. Having been in business I can attest that some customers can wear on you, and some have an exaggerated idea of their importance and cannot be satisfied. That's not to say each one is not important. Companies have their struggles too, primarily to survive and be profitable. Anyway, we all know that the world is screwed up right now in just about every way possible. IMHO politics are primarily responsible for most of it. It's never going to be perfect and might not ever be halfway normal again unless voters come to their senses. In the meantime all we can do is deal with life as it comes, and be thankful we don't live somewhere like Ukraine.

[Shot-N-Az]

Jesus, dont be such an ass. It’s not a good look. I have taken Doug to task a few times over the years, but in this case, he is absolutely correct.

[Racklefratz]

JoeH wrote:
I too have read many of Doug's responses and appreciate his knowledge and the accurate "to the point" responses

Well, all I can say is the you and I see Doug's participation here differently. I see his posts as unfairly critical of owners who may very well be quite capable of dealing with their RV maintenance issues, if they could just get a little support from the relevant systems manufacturers, who in many cases, fail in that regard.

And, his comparison with the automotive industry, "call Ford or GM to try to get help", is lame beyond description. It's apples-to-oranges on steroids. So, there's that.

[Racklefratz]

way2roll wrote:
Your grim narrative is not the experience I've had owning several types of RV's in different states dealing with different dealers. I think Doug is spot on. Most times it's all about how you approach things.

Well, that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion.

But where ole "Doug's" concerned, I stand by what I said - every time he posts, I keep seeing him trying to blame owners for the problems they come here asking for help with, and I don't appreciate that kind of attitude. It's not helpful, no matter how much "experience" he brings to the table.

[JoeH]

Racklefratz wrote:

dougrainer wrote:
YOU CALL GM OR FORD AND ATTEMPT TO DIAGNOSIS YOUR VEHICLE OVER THE PHONE AND GET PARTS. REPORT BACK. HWH IS NOT IN THE BUSINESS TO TELL RETAIL CUSTOMERS HOW TO FIX AND TO SELL PARTS. THEY DO THAT AS A CONVIENANCE. PEOPLE LIKE YOU MAKE PROFESSIONALS LIKE ME HAVE TO WAIT FOR PHONE TIME. Doug

"professionals like you...right" Little hubris going on, do we?

I don't know you, and I have no way to know if you're capable of dealing with HWH jack system problems, so there's that. What I DO know is that there's no one I can call in my area I can trust to do knowledgeable repairs on my HWH RV system.

"Take it to a dealer", you might say. Sure - and be ready for them to park it out on the "Back 40" for 3 months, then put their minimum-wage teen-age wonder with his power driver on it, and then, STILL, screw it up. Not happening.

I don't call "GM or Ford" for service issues because AUTOMOTIVE dealers are EXPECTED and REQUIRED by manufacturers to take care of problems. Comparing the automobile industry to the RV industry is apples to oranges, and YOU KNOW THAT. Once an RV leaves the factory, it's on it's own, maintenance-wise - FACT.

Your attempts to paint RV owners as clueless and helpless are less than helpful. Many of us know a lot more about our own RVs than dealers do, and trying to get any technical or service help from dealers with most of the systems in our RVs often end up a frustrating, time-consuming, and expensive dry hole.

In many instances, our only recourse with service-related issues IS to directly contact the manufacturers, and YOU know that. It's a totally different ballgame from the automotive situation.

Lastly, I've been here long enough to have seen many of your posts. I'm not sure what you think you're accomplishing here, but my impression is that your objective is to denigrate RV owners. You can guess what I think of that attitude.

I too have read many of Doug's responses and appreciate his knowledge and the accurate "to the point" responses, unlike many of the misleading guesses from novices that seem to pop up in response to people's serious questions when trying to solve a problem.

I agree that the current HWH business process/consumer support is broken. I carry a 6ft 2x4 to assist my one jack as I've been waiting for replacement springs for a long time.

[way2roll]

Racklefratz wrote:

dougrainer wrote:
YOU CALL GM OR FORD AND ATTEMPT TO DIAGNOSIS YOUR VEHICLE OVER THE PHONE AND GET PARTS. REPORT BACK. HWH IS NOT IN THE BUSINESS TO TELL RETAIL CUSTOMERS HOW TO FIX AND TO SELL PARTS. THEY DO THAT AS A CONVIENANCE. PEOPLE LIKE YOU MAKE PROFESSIONALS LIKE ME HAVE TO WAIT FOR PHONE TIME. Doug

"professionals like you...right" Little hubris going on, do we?

I don't know you, and I have no way to know if you're capable of dealing with HWH jack system problems, so there's that. What I DO know is that there's no one I can call in my area I can trust to do knowledgeable repairs on my HWH RV system.

"Take it to a dealer", you might say. Sure - and be ready for them to park it out on the "Back 40" for 3 months, then put their minimum-wage teen-age wonder with his power driver on it, and then, STILL, screw it up. Not happening.

I don't call "GM or Ford" for service issues because AUTOMOTIVE dealers are EXPECTED and REQUIRED by manufacturers to take care of problems. Comparing the automobile industry to the RV industry is apples to oranges, and YOU KNOW THAT. Once an RV leaves the factory, it's on it's own, maintenance-wise - FACT.

Your attempts to paint RV owners as clueless and helpless are less than helpful. Many of us know a lot more about our own RVs than dealers do, and trying to get any technical or service help from dealers with most of the systems in our RVs often end up a frustrating, time-consuming, and expensive dry hole.

In many instances, our only recourse with service-related issues IS to directly contact the manufacturers, and YOU know that. It's a totally different ballgame from the automotive situation.

Lastly, I've been here long enough to have seen many of your posts. I'm not sure what you think you're accomplishing here, but my impression is that your objective is to denigrate RV owners. You can guess what I think of that attitude.

Your grim narrative is not the experience I've had owning several types of RV's in different states dealing with different dealers. I think Doug is spot on. Most times it's all about how you approach things.