Needing some fast advise

[flyinlow1000]

I have been racking my brain trying to figure out what to tow my car trailer with. It looks like the Class C is out because the trailer weighs around 7500 lb loaded.. I am looking at a 1999 Rexhall Vision 25.5 ft with the F53 Chassis. It has a GCVR of 15,500 and a GVWR of 26,000lbs.Do you guys think this is ample..I would love to go DP but I don't want to deal with that large of a coach.. Any advise will help.. I want to stay within my means money wise.

[Bossbill]

The Rexhall Vision 25 is really short for a Class A as it's length is really is around 25'-26' bumper to bumper. It's a wide body too.
With a fully loaded racecar, trailer and supplies (incl up to 30 gallons of fuel); 3/4 fuel and full water in the RV; food and other supplies the combination came in at under 18,000 pounds(exact specs are in the RV and I'm 20 miles from there).
For its time the Vision was built rather uniquely. It features 1x2 steel 'studs' built into its foam laminate structure. A similar foam laminate roof is then welded to steel wall studs. Very strong and very light. A fair amount of care was taken in its construction to be as light as possible within its price range.

But the reason racers love this thing is that the RV is about the same length as an F-250 4 door with an extended camper in the bed. One racer I know uses a Super Truss with that combo and tows a 20' trailer!
They don't usually let RVs park with the campers right next to the trailer, but since I'm so short I can park the RV in one spot, the trailer and car in the next spot and not use up more than my allocated space.
Just because it appears racetracks have "all the room in the world" doesn't mean they have parking for 300 racers with all their gear.

As a guy who is a 'fabricator' who is currently building another racecar I do agree that the current 5k receiver is not up to snuff. It features a square tube with 6"x6" plates (roughly) welded to the frame. I'd prefer 4 point loading like a Class V hitch in order to spread the WD load along a longer section of frame. Yet another project ...

[wny_pat1]

flyinlow1000 wrote:

427435 wrote:

flyinlow1000 wrote:
Ok..I got it backward. The Vision I'm looking at has aGVWR of 15500 lbs and a GCWR of 26000 lbs.

Well, I'm going to have to disagree with many of you. IF the numbers above are accurate, AND IF the hitch (and maybe the frame) are upgraded, AND IF the MH only weighs 15,500 when fully loaded, you should be able to pull 10,500 lbs. That's what the manufacturer said it would with his ratings.

Those are the GVWR (I got off the sticker) and the GCWR (I got off a Ford site). It said ALL F53 frames ahve a GCWR of 26000lbs.. I agree as the size of the coach goes up the GVWR goes up and the trailer capacity goes down. A pusher is out of the question due to limited parking space at race tracks and a 4 wheel down tow is out of the question due to the is a race care trailer..

There are many 36 foot and even shorter pushers out there.

[Bossbill]

I too own a 2000 Rexhall Vision 25' F53/V-10.
The frame is actually shortened in the middle as the factory frame is too long for this length body. I don't recall the rear having frame extensions. The rig came with air helpers which I run at 45 psi all the time.
I do recall that Rexhall really messed up the driveshaft angles and phasing due to the frame shortening, but that's fixed now!

I tow a 20' Haulmark car trailer at near 6500# full up. It has 4 wheel electric brakes, behind a Prodigy brake controller.
The max gross combined weight is well under factory specs. Although the hitch is rated at 5000/500, most hitch manufactures will uprate
that if used with a WD hitch. I opted for a Pro Series square tube trunnion style WD hitch with built in friction pads.
When I tried the combination without a WD, it was white knuckle driving. With the WD hitch and its anti-sway capabilities it's pretty good, but you have realize you are still driving something with almost 50 feet of flat panel to a side wind.
Still, the combination is stable, the RV rides flat, and with the V-10 I can still climb mountain passes as well as some 36' class As since we weigh about the same.
It brakes as well as the 18 wheeler who did a panic stop in front of me last month.
I run at 60 mph on the flats and only when cresting the many, many mountain passes in Washington state am I down in third gear. I might have hit 2nd gear cresting Snoqualmie ...
Coming down most passes is not an issue.
I do note that the trailer is really close to the rear walls of the trailer when turning and that you should consider a trailer with an extended front tongue if buying new.
I've run this combination for almost 5 years.
There is no accelerated brake wear, the engine still runs strong, and the trannie still shifts well.
I do change engine and transmission fluids before each race season as well as keeping religious track of tire pressures on everything and trailer wheel bearings/brakes.
I carry two spare trailer tires and one fully inflated RV spare as well to avoid calling Good Sam.

[Indytech]

Oh, there's no doubt there is some differences, I agree with what your saying 100%. But until recently, When ever I towed anything, I'm certain I've always been over gross.

I guess all I'm saying is I personally believe there is always some fudge factor, or built in Head room into these factors. Just to be safe.

People are very imperfect, LOL. Kent

PS. I know this sounds crazy, but my Authorized Freightliner Service Rep., who I like a lot, just pretty sure he is uninformed, said to ignore the rating, and pull what I wanted to pull. Not going to do it. Pretty Bold statement.

[Indytech]

Deleted

[moparmaga2]

Indytech wrote:


The facts, I don't know to much about Monaco's, But much to my amazement he did this with less horsepower than my rig. His coach was only 250HP. It was almost exactly the same size and weight as my rig.

HP does not matter much when pulling heavy loads.

His engine may have had 250 HP compared to your 300, but I bet the Dynasty Engine is at least an ISC with 800-1000 lb ft of torque. A Cummins 300 HP ISB such as in your rig is in the 600 lb ft range.

The Dynasty probably has at least an Allison 3000 Transmission that is rated for the torque the engine puts out and is rated for towing heavy loads. Your motorhome is no doubt equipped with the Allison 2500 or 2000 that would blow up in short order if connected to an engine with higher torque, or if you attempted to tow 10,000 lbs.

A Dynasty has a chassis that is rated to carry 30,000 to 40,000lbs and to tow 10,000 lbs + more. Your Freightliner chassis is not rated to haul and tow this weight. Things like brakes, bolts, welds, chassis construction are different from the Dynasty to your motorhome.

This is not to say your motorhome is somehow "bad", it is just built for a different purpose, and towing a 10,000-15,000 lb trailer is not its purpose. The Dynasty is built for that purpose.

If you could replace your transmission, hire an engineer to beef up your chassis, change out your brakes, airbags, rear axle, etc, you could most likely make your MH capable of towing the same weight as the Dynasty.


Heck, a new F-350 with a 6.7 litre Diesel has 400 HP. I only have 425 hauling 44,000 lbs and a Jeep. Should I trade my engine in on a powerstroke?

No, because The Powerstroke has 700-800 lb ft of torque, and a transmission rated for that torque range. My Engine has 1,250 lb ft of torque and an Allison 3000 that is rated for the torque output.

[Indytech]

You know funny I see funny things. I, probably like many, keep my DP in a storage yard that houses close to 60 Class A's, of all kinds. When I got mine, I came to the realization that I only had a 5K towing capacity, and have been wrestling with how I'm going to operate this, and do what I need to do.

As I was leaving the yard this weekend, I saw the owner of a beautiful 1999 Monaco Diplomat emptying his holding tanks pulling a 24 foot trailer.

As I past him I told him how much I liked his trailer, How beautiful his rig looked, and expressed to him how much I envied him having enough horsepower, and towing capacity to pull such a trailer.

The facts, I don't know to much about Monaco's, But much to my amazement he did this with less horsepower than my rig. His coach was only 250HP. It was almost exactly the same size and weight as my rig.

What did he have in it? Not one but (2) race cars of some sort. Ask him how much his trailer weighed, he said he thought 3900 Lbs. So needless to say he was probably significantly over gross, and had been operating this way for quite some time.

I engaged in a little small talk, and did discover he designs his trip routing to almost always avoid any serious climbs, or downgrades.

I would never under any circumstances recommend anyone operate there rigs over gross in any way, shape, or fashion.

But I can't help but wonder if the design intent of the ratings were established as safe guide lines, not a red line in the sand, never to exceed under any circumstances.

Just a thought Kent

[Mrs_Gryphon]

We own a Rexhall Vision 26 on the F53 chassis. The specs say the hitch weight is 5000lbs. Would I actually tow that much? Not if I wanted to go faster than 40 MPH. Or had to cover any sort of upward or downward slope at all.

Realistically, you want to find a smaller DP. Somebody makes a 33 footer, I can't remember who off the top of my head though.

Good Luck!

[ferndaleflyer]

Guess someone didn't like my post so I will try once more: I have over 50 years of racing and towing race cars and was trying to give the op advice on experience not hear say. I towed my race car 15,000+mi this year alone and am leaving on a 1500mi round trip to Fl Thursday....You never have to much tow vehicle. Ask the man who knows!

[TyroneandGladys]

sounds like it is time to look at super C's

[427435]

ferndaleflyer wrote:
427 must never have been in the mountains with a small class A (or anything else for that matter) and a large trailer---its a hand full when the brakes get hot on the trailer and the tow vehicles brakes aren't adequate to slow both. Ever rode up an escape ramp? I would want (and have) an exhaust brake and enough tow vehicle stopping power to get it stopped----up hill don't matter because lack of power generally won't get you killed but not enough brakes could. Can't tell you how many wrecks I have seen between NC and Charleston, WV on I-77 just because of not enough tow vehicle.....

Or was it poor or overloaded trailer brakes?????

The OP is involved with car racing. He probably knows more about brakes than you and I do. He probably knows something about driving also-----including gearing down before heading down a steep grade.

A MH with a 15,500 GVW and a 26,000 lb GCVW can PULL a big trailer with a properly rated hitch and frame reinforcements-----------and if the trailer brakes are properly sized, it can also stop. Not everybody can afford a large DP------------so we use our heads instead of our pocketbooks.

[ferndaleflyer]

427 must never have been in the mountains with a small class A (or anything else for that matter) and a large trailer---its a hand full when the brakes get hot on the trailer and the tow vehicles brakes aren't adequate to slow both. Ever rode up an escape ramp? I would want (and have) an exhaust brake and enough tow vehicle stopping power to get it stopped----up hill don't matter because lack of power generally won't get you killed but not enough brakes could. Can't tell you how many wrecks I have seen between NC and Charleston, WV on I-77 just because of not enough tow vehicle.....

[JetAonly]

427435 wrote:

Doug and Cassi Glass wrote:
Believe what the designers of the RV says, not Internet wizards. If you take their advice and beef up the frame and the hitch you've spent a ton of money that still will do zero for the STOPPING abilities of an RV rated to tow 3,500 or 5,000 lbs.

A whole lot of "beefing" can be done for $500 -$1000. A guy running a race car probably has a welder and some design skills as well.

The MH brakes stop the MH. The trailer brakes stop the trailer. Where is there a braking problem?????

The problem for all of us is its hard to tell when the engineer stopped writing the spec and when the liability lawyer started. Braking is, of course, only one aspect of the picture. Once you hook the the two together it must be thought of as one vehicle not two. YMMV

[427435]

Doug and Cassi Glass wrote:
Believe what the designers of the RV says, not Internet wizards. If you take their advice and beef up the frame and the hitch you've spent a ton of money that still will do zero for the STOPPING abilities of an RV rated to tow 3,500 or 5,000 lbs.

A whole lot of "beefing" can be done for $500 -$1000. A guy running a race car probably has a welder and some design skills as well.

The MH brakes stop the MH. The trailer brakes stop the trailer. Where is there a braking problem?????