Question to Class B manufacturers

[Argie7]

I am a satisfied owner of a 2006 Roadtrek 210 V on a Chevy chassis. A very fine piece of equipment that has performed well on my many trips. The quality of craftmanship and design tells me that the manufacturer looked into many features that make RV living a pleasurable experience. As my vehicle is reaching 10 years of service, I am starting to look at the current versions of class B, and have been a bit disappointed at the lack of "updates" made.This is what I mean:
Throughout the years, I have enjoyed "personalizing" my RT with modifications that best suited my traveling style. I like to work on my rig ! There is a huge amount of info on this and other forums on how to improve your rig with aftermarket products. My disappointment is that the manufacturers seem oblivious to the improved devices in the market and rely on the same old supplies. For example
- Tank level sensors that measure from the outside have been there for a while, and are reliable. Why they keep installing the worthless ones in the new rigs.
- Battery meters that measure battery consumption and calculate remaining capacity rather accurately (e.g. Trimetric, Xantrex) should be standard. Why use the dumb voltage meter with color lights?
- Silent water pumps with variable speed and accumulators should be standard by now, not an after market improvement
- Voltage and polarity monitors when hooking up to shore power at campgrounds are recommended. Why not incorporate them into the control panel ?

Those are just a few things. I am sure people can come up with more stuff like that. My peeve is that the improvements are largely made in appearance and color design, but very little thought seems to be put into updated proven technologies developed by after market suppliers. These are rather expensive rigs, and should have state of the art infrastructure in them

[Fastpaddler]

mlts22 wrote:
This is endemic in the RV industry as a whole.

If you want a rig with the latest and greatest, you will need to go to a place like Sportsmobile or Advanced RV and have one custom built.

I would say that Winnebago is keeping up with the times. They have the outside sensors, and it doesn't take too much to install the other stuff. It isn't 100% up to date, but the price is right on their offerings.

I agree. My only complaint with Winnebago is the poor quality of their cabinetry. Otherwise, they are pretty good. I do admire Sportsmobile which is a non starter for Canadians, especially now with awful US/Canadian dollar differential.

[Fastpaddler]

Argie7 wrote:
I am a satisfied owner of a 2006 Roadtrek 210 V on a Chevy chassis. A very fine piece of equipment that has performed well on my many trips. The quality of craftmanship and design tells me that the manufacturer looked into many features that make RV living a pleasurable experience. As my vehicle is reaching 10 years of service, I am starting to look at the current versions of class B, and have been a bit disappointed at the lack of "updates" made.This is what I mean:
Throughout the years, I have enjoyed "personalizing" my RT with modifications that best suited my traveling style. I like to work on my rig ! There is a huge amount of info on this and other forums on how to improve your rig with aftermarket products. My disappointment is that the manufacturers seem oblivious to the improved devices in the market and rely on the same old supplies. For example
- Tank level sensors that measure from the outside have been there for a while, and are reliable. Why they keep installing the worthless ones in the new rigs.
- Battery meters that measure battery consumption and calculate remaining capacity rather accurately (e.g. Trimetric, Xantrex) should be standard. Why use the dumb voltage meter with color lights?
- Silent water pumps with variable speed and accumulators should be standard by now, not an after market improvement
- Voltage and polarity monitors when hooking up to shore power at campgrounds are recommended. Why not incorporate them into the control panel ?

Those are just a few things. I am sure people can come up with more stuff like that. My peeve is that the improvements are largely made in appearance and color design, but very little thought seems to be put into updated proven technologies developed by after market suppliers. These are rather expensive rigs, and should have state of the art infrastructure in them

I agree. For example. Winnebago has the outside grey/black tank monitors whereas a lot of B class rigs have inside monitors which attract grunge and give wonky readings. Not acceptable. Etc...

[avanti]

If you want a rig with the latest and greatest, you will need to go to a place like Sportsmobile or Advanced RV and have one custom built.

You should also take a look at Great West Vans. They have consistently been an industry leader in innovative technologies--often derived from special-requests from their customers. Some examples include: First screen door in a Sprinter; first clearspan trifold slide-forward sofa bed; first use of Espar diesel-fired heat/hot-water. ARV took all of these features as well as the basic floorpan as the basis of their design--adding their own technology innovations and upscale finishes.

On our 2014 GWV Legend, we had them add a number of features such as those that OP mentions, including a freshwater accumulator, compressor refrigerator, and an Outback inverter/charger (note that high-end inverters incorporate power monitoring features--there is no need for add-ons). Great West is very willing to customize according to your ideas, and often incorporates them as they evolve their designs.

[RobertRyan]

mlst22 wrote:
So, even though "B"s may not have some of the gewgaws, they are the fastest advancing sector of the RV market.

Pretty well the same thing to a certain extent is havppening here. There is almost as many Class B's as Class C's being built. Gas Class A's do not exist, with an unknown number of Coach Conersions being built in their place

[mlts22]

Don't mean to hijack, but there are a few things about "B"s which make them an exception to the RV industry:

The one thing about class "B"s is that they are definitely 1-2 tiers above what you might find in other RV types. You don't see push-button positive latches in truck campers, or class "A"s. Because it takes a lot of custom work to upfit a van into a usable unit, not to mention the hundreds of compromises that have to be made, "B"s are not cheap.

But you get what you pay for. I don't read about a five year old Roadtrek being towed to the junkyard because cabover rot completely trashed the rig, nor do I read about having to go on the roof and do various types of patching jobs with paint-on goop, Eternabond, butyl tape, caulk, elastomer epoxy spray, or all the above at once. In fact, I rarely read about class "B" leaks, and if so, it usually is a faulty window... nod a dud roof.

Then there is the resale value. A 2006 T1N Sprinter Roadtrek goes for $48995 at PPL. This is a unit that is one model year from being booted from every RV park in central Texas due to the 10 year rule... but has lost about 20% of its value in over 10 years. I don't know many RVs that have this little deprecation after a decade.

Now here is the ironic part: What I've been seeing with class "B"s is more innovation than any other RV segment:

In the past five years, travel trailers have sprouted more televisions, maybe even jumped to LED lighting. Similar with class "C"s. Neither of these are really earth-shaking developments. I replaced my trailer's light bulbs with LEDs for a buck a piece from a no-name ebay supplier.

Same five years, here is what I've seen go on with class "B"s:

• A move to fully electric awnings with a LED light strip.
• SMEV/Dometic flush stove and sink.
• The replacing of the water heater and furnace with a combined unit that does both their function for less space.
• 800 ampere-hour battery packs.
• Hydronic heating.
• Curved overhead panels to maximize space.
• The movement from just the Chevrolet Express and the Sprinter chassis (with a few Ford E-350s here and there like the PW Excel) to having a reasonably priced Euro-style van... the ProMaster, a midrange van, the Ford Transit, and a van with all the safety features of any other luxury car on the road (the Sprinter.)
• Multiple floor plans, be it the traditional sofa bed, twin beds, or European style half dinettes with various sleeping setups in the back.
  
• The tiny little absorption fridge replaced by a compressor fridge storing more in the same volume... or taller absorption fridges that store 5-7 cubic feet of goods
  
• The movement to very sleek windows.
  
• Advances in insulation that are not seen on other RV types.
  
• Solar either standard or an option on virtually any new "B". Most RV models, this isn't available, unless one gets it installed by the dealer.

So, even though "B"s may not have some of the gewgaws, they are the fastest advancing sector of the RV market.

[loving_retireme]

I believe that many new B's are purchased by first time B owners. I personally know many B owners that have purchased a second B, but many of them had become very discriminating and shrewd buyers for an RV and look for and purchase a slightly used vehicle, possibly from an older couple that no longer drive at a great discount over the going price of the same new super duper model with the new appearance and color design that appeals to the first time buyer.

[PSW]

We had a very similar to yours Roadtrek, a 2007 210P. We loved it and wanted to get a new one. What we discovered was very disappointing. The same things you mentioned, plus we just didn't feel the overall quality was as good as our 2007. So, we got a small C to try something different. We like our Phoenix Cruiser and the quality is good for the C world. It is not the build quality of our old RT and neither are the new RTs in our opinion. We did NOT want a Mercedes chassis for many reasons and preferences. We loved that 3500 Chevy under that Roadtrek!

I don't know about the other manufacturers, but apparently Roadtrek is no longer family owned having been "recapitalized" in 2011. Read this and draw your own conclusions:

http://www.iopfund.com/news/IndustrialOpportunityPartnersInvestsinRoadtrekMotorhomesInc..htm

[mlts22]

This is endemic in the RV industry as a whole.

If you want a rig with the latest and greatest, you will need to go to a place like Sportsmobile or Advanced RV and have one custom built.

I would say that Winnebago is keeping up with the times. They have the outside sensors, and it doesn't take too much to install the other stuff. It isn't 100% up to date, but the price is right on their offerings.

[bobojay5]

It's all in the $$$. The North American manufacturers are notorious for staying the same in their designs year after year, especially when it comes to the basic equipment and floorplans