Workhorse Opinions

[vjstangelo]

OK, once again we have found a promising used Class A, a 2009 Damon Challenger 371. It has about 10,000 miles. The motor/transmission is 8.1 with Allison.

My current tow vehicle is a Ford Excursion with the 310 HP V10, and 4R100 transmission. Short of the transmission blowing a front seal, the power train has been flawless for 123,000 miles.

I am wary of the 8.1, just because the V10 has been flawless.

If you own a Workhorse with the 8.1, please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks.

[dezertcamper]

rgatijnet1 wrote:

dezertcamper wrote:

rgatijnet1 wrote:

dezertcamper wrote:

Workhorse W22 chassis did not come with Swaybars. Those big square tubes mounted from leaf spring to leaf spring, Workhorse calls those Stabilizers or a Torsion Tube. Because the WW chassis uses such a long leaf spring to try to give it a smoother ride they chose to add these square stabilizer bars to help with sway that the spring get as they deflect. The sway is more from the springs rocking from side to side. This square tube mounted to each leaf spring was designed to help keep those springs parallel and also attempts to help with sway.


Here is what a authorized Workhorse service dealer said about the sway system under the Workhorse W22 chassis.

"Workhorse did not use a traditional sway bar system. There are 2 stabilizer devices on your chassis and they both look like elongated square bars. These bars are either 2.0 inch on the front or both 2.5" square, depending on the year. The front bar is mounted in between the springs and you can see it mounted below the radiator. The rear bar is mounted behind the differential at the trailing end of the leaf springs. These bars work as torque arms where the side that gets loaded in deflection applies an equal force through the bar in opposition to the force absorbed. What the bar attempts to do is center the roll rate as best as possible and to keep the axle side to side deflection as minimal as possible.

Seems to me that the Workhorse service dealer you posted called them BARS 6 or 7 times, but that is irrelevant.
Since you seem to be in the minority with handling problems with your W chassis perhaps the first thing you should do is have a FOUR wheel alignment done with the thrust angle being checked to make sure that rear axle is in perfect alignment with the center of your coach. There are very few shops that have the equipment to do this but it is worth finding one. I know of ZERO RV shops that have the equipment but many truck alignment shops have the facilities. Then make sure that the front end is aligned with the coach properly loaded for travel and your tires properly inflated. The WH chassis will handle better if the front axle is loaded close to the maximum. If the front axle is light, the coach will sway and wag.
Before you continue to throw money at the chassis, you should take it to a well equipped shop that will check the basic things first before you start adding every aftermarket accessory out there.

Go on to IRV2.com and look under the Workhorse section. You will find more then just me who have not been satisfied with the stock ride of the W22 chassis. While doing research on my ride quality I found that site and found that what I was feeling was not not just me. Trust me when I say I did my research before just throwing money at something. The last place I want to spend money is on my RV. The first fix I did was to install the better valving Bilstein shocks and get it aligned. What we found out was my coach was on the low end of the factory settings in regards to caster. I don't remember what degree shim was added, but is was a few degree's of caster, and that in itself made a big improvement. It was this improvement that had me not do anymore to the front end. I admit I would like to add a front swaybar system, but that is pretty far down on my list of daily life needs or wants. A company called Brazel's RV in Washington is big into the Workhorse chassis stuff. I spoke to them on several occasions and they are the ones who suggested I start with a rear track bar (which was not bought though them) Then later it was my choice to add the rear Hellwig swaybar. This also made a big improvement. I still think the ride quality of my sisters Ford chassis is a bit nicer, but I'm much closer to what their ride quality is vs. before I did my improvements.

BTW I have a Fleetwood Southwind 32. And I will agree different models & brands will ride a little different on the same chassis.

I'm familiar with Jon at Brazels. He prepared my ultrachip but I did not feel anything was needed on my suspension other than switching from the standard Bilstein shocks to Koni FSD's.
Did they check the thrust angle of the rear axle and was your coach loaded completely when the front end alignment was done? Is your front end loaded close to max axle weight? Tire pressures at 100 PSI.

To be 100% honest I dont know all the details of what was done or checked when they first did my alignment. Its been several years and has been done since. But I know there is no adjustment to the rear axle without heavy modifications, and I don't remember paying for any. The alignment was a "4 wheel" alignment which basically they find the center of the rear and adjust the front to match, then adjust toe & caster. Since the first time, its been re-aligned again when I put new tires on, and the only adjustment made was in toe. Yes all adjustment were with the RV fully loaded including fresh water, minus food & cloths,and a course no trailer behind it. I'm way to lazy to empty the RV.

The tire pressure I run is 95 lbs all the way around. As far as weight on the front axle, I dont know? I would assume I'm not close to max, only because 90% of our trips are desert or river, and I'm always towing a trailer.

[rgatijnet1]

dezertcamper wrote:

rgatijnet1 wrote:

dezertcamper wrote:

Workhorse W22 chassis did not come with Swaybars. Those big square tubes mounted from leaf spring to leaf spring, Workhorse calls those Stabilizers or a Torsion Tube. Because the WW chassis uses such a long leaf spring to try to give it a smoother ride they chose to add these square stabilizer bars to help with sway that the spring get as they deflect. The sway is more from the springs rocking from side to side. This square tube mounted to each leaf spring was designed to help keep those springs parallel and also attempts to help with sway.


Here is what a authorized Workhorse service dealer said about the sway system under the Workhorse W22 chassis.

"Workhorse did not use a traditional sway bar system. There are 2 stabilizer devices on your chassis and they both look like elongated square bars. These bars are either 2.0 inch on the front or both 2.5" square, depending on the year. The front bar is mounted in between the springs and you can see it mounted below the radiator. The rear bar is mounted behind the differential at the trailing end of the leaf springs. These bars work as torque arms where the side that gets loaded in deflection applies an equal force through the bar in opposition to the force absorbed. What the bar attempts to do is center the roll rate as best as possible and to keep the axle side to side deflection as minimal as possible.

Seems to me that the Workhorse service dealer you posted called them BARS 6 or 7 times, but that is irrelevant.
Since you seem to be in the minority with handling problems with your W chassis perhaps the first thing you should do is have a FOUR wheel alignment done with the thrust angle being checked to make sure that rear axle is in perfect alignment with the center of your coach. There are very few shops that have the equipment to do this but it is worth finding one. I know of ZERO RV shops that have the equipment but many truck alignment shops have the facilities. Then make sure that the front end is aligned with the coach properly loaded for travel and your tires properly inflated. The WH chassis will handle better if the front axle is loaded close to the maximum. If the front axle is light, the coach will sway and wag.
Before you continue to throw money at the chassis, you should take it to a well equipped shop that will check the basic things first before you start adding every aftermarket accessory out there.

Go on to IRV2.com and look under the Workhorse section. You will find more then just me who have not been satisfied with the stock ride of the W22 chassis. While doing research on my ride quality I found that site and found that what I was feeling was not not just me. Trust me when I say I did my research before just throwing money at something. The last place I want to spend money is on my RV. The first fix I did was to install the better valving Bilstein shocks and get it aligned. What we found out was my coach was on the low end of the factory settings in regards to caster. I don't remember what degree shim was added, but is was a few degree's of caster, and that in itself made a big improvement. It was this improvement that had me not do anymore to the front end. I admit I would like to add a front swaybar system, but that is pretty far down on my list of daily life needs or wants. A company called Brazel's RV in Washington is big into the Workhorse chassis stuff. I spoke to them on several occasions and they are the ones who suggested I start with a rear track bar (which was not bought though them) Then later it was my choice to add the rear Hellwig swaybar. This also made a big improvement. I still think the ride quality of my sisters Ford chassis is a bit nicer, but I'm much closer to what their ride quality is vs. before I did my improvements.

BTW I have a Fleetwood Southwind 32. And I will agree different models & brands will ride a little different on the same chassis.

I'm familiar with Jon at Brazels. He prepared my ultrachip but I did not feel anything was needed on my suspension other than switching from the standard Bilstein shocks to Koni FSD's.
Did they check the thrust angle of the rear axle and was your coach loaded completely when the front end alignment was done? Is your front end loaded close to max axle weight? Tire pressures at 100 PSI.

[dezertcamper]

rgatijnet1 wrote:

dezertcamper wrote:

Workhorse W22 chassis did not come with Swaybars. Those big square tubes mounted from leaf spring to leaf spring, Workhorse calls those Stabilizers or a Torsion Tube. Because the WW chassis uses such a long leaf spring to try to give it a smoother ride they chose to add these square stabilizer bars to help with sway that the spring get as they deflect. The sway is more from the springs rocking from side to side. This square tube mounted to each leaf spring was designed to help keep those springs parallel and also attempts to help with sway.


Here is what a authorized Workhorse service dealer said about the sway system under the Workhorse W22 chassis.

"Workhorse did not use a traditional sway bar system. There are 2 stabilizer devices on your chassis and they both look like elongated square bars. These bars are either 2.0 inch on the front or both 2.5" square, depending on the year. The front bar is mounted in between the springs and you can see it mounted below the radiator. The rear bar is mounted behind the differential at the trailing end of the leaf springs. These bars work as torque arms where the side that gets loaded in deflection applies an equal force through the bar in opposition to the force absorbed. What the bar attempts to do is center the roll rate as best as possible and to keep the axle side to side deflection as minimal as possible.

Seems to me that the Workhorse service dealer you posted called them BARS 6 or 7 times, but that is irrelevant.
Since you seem to be in the minority with handling problems with your W chassis perhaps the first thing you should do is have a FOUR wheel alignment done with the thrust angle being checked to make sure that rear axle is in perfect alignment with the center of your coach. There are very few shops that have the equipment to do this but it is worth finding one. I know of ZERO RV shops that have the equipment but many truck alignment shops have the facilities. Then make sure that the front end is aligned with the coach properly loaded for travel and your tires properly inflated. The WH chassis will handle better if the front axle is loaded close to the maximum. If the front axle is light, the coach will sway and wag.
Before you continue to throw money at the chassis, you should take it to a well equipped shop that will check the basic things first before you start adding every aftermarket accessory out there.

Go on to IRV2.com and look under the Workhorse section. You will find more then just me who have not been satisfied with the stock ride of the W22 chassis. While doing research on my ride quality I found that site and found that what I was feeling was not not just me. Trust me when I say I did my research before just throwing money at something. The last place I want to spend money is on my RV. The first fix I did was to install the better valving Bilstein shocks and get it aligned. What we found out was my coach was on the low end of the factory settings in regards to caster. I don't remember what degree shim was added, but is was a few degree's of caster, and that in itself made a big improvement. It was this improvement that had me not do anymore to the front end. I admit I would like to add a front swaybar system, but that is pretty far down on my list of daily life needs or wants. A company called Brazel's RV in Washington is big into the Workhorse chassis stuff. I spoke to them on several occasions and they are the ones who suggested I start with a rear track bar (which was not bought though them) Then later it was my choice to add the rear Hellwig swaybar. This also made a big improvement. I still think the ride quality of my sisters Ford chassis is a bit nicer, but I'm much closer to what their ride quality is vs. before I did my improvements.

BTW I have a Fleetwood Southwind 32. And I will agree different models & brands will ride a little different on the same chassis.

[RVROSE]

When we were looking for a new motorhome in 2005, the default engine in most rigs was the Ford V-10 and the upgraded engine was the Vortec 8.1. We went with a Newmar product that included the Vortec engine. I'm not smart enough to know if the Vortec was better than the V-10, but the motorhome makers made me believe it was.

Our previous motorhome ran on the Ford V-8. That one was a real loser!!! Loud, powerless, and thirsty. The Vortec 8.1 was a real improvement!!!! In 2005, I was probably afraid to try the new Ford V-10 after my experience with their V-8.

Now, it seems that the V-10 has lasted long enough to overtake the Vortec 8.1. Did Chevy goof or ruin it in some way or did the v -10 just get better.

After the fiasco with the bad brakes, Workhorse probably lost a lot of people who previously had confidence in their product.

[DSDP_Don]

The 8.1 engine, mated to the Allison was probably the best combo out there. The RV industry really suffered when Chevy discontinued the 8.1 and removed the ability of the consumer to choose between two power plants.

The Ford has and does work well, but the 8.1 was a powerhouse! Mine would pass about 90% of the DP's to the top of the mountain, but there definitely wouldn't be any conversation going on while doing so.

[rgatijnet1]

dezertcamper wrote:

Workhorse W22 chassis did not come with Swaybars. Those big square tubes mounted from leaf spring to leaf spring, Workhorse calls those Stabilizers or a Torsion Tube. Because the WW chassis uses such a long leaf spring to try to give it a smoother ride they chose to add these square stabilizer bars to help with sway that the spring get as they deflect. The sway is more from the springs rocking from side to side. This square tube mounted to each leaf spring was designed to help keep those springs parallel and also attempts to help with sway.


Here is what a authorized Workhorse service dealer said about the sway system under the Workhorse W22 chassis.

"Workhorse did not use a traditional sway bar system. There are 2 stabilizer devices on your chassis and they both look like elongated square bars. These bars are either 2.0 inch on the front or both 2.5" square, depending on the year. The front bar is mounted in between the springs and you can see it mounted below the radiator. The rear bar is mounted behind the differential at the trailing end of the leaf springs. These bars work as torque arms where the side that gets loaded in deflection applies an equal force through the bar in opposition to the force absorbed. What the bar attempts to do is center the roll rate as best as possible and to keep the axle side to side deflection as minimal as possible.

Seems to me that the Workhorse service dealer you posted called them BARS 6 or 7 times, but that is irrelevant.
Since you seem to be in the minority with handling problems with your W chassis perhaps the first thing you should do is have a FOUR wheel alignment done with the thrust angle being checked to make sure that rear axle is in perfect alignment with the center of your coach. There are very few shops that have the equipment to do this but it is worth finding one. I know of ZERO RV shops that have the equipment but many truck alignment shops have the facilities. Then make sure that the front end is aligned with the coach properly loaded for travel and your tires properly inflated. The WH chassis will handle better if the front axle is loaded close to the maximum. If the front axle is light, the coach will sway and wag.
Before you continue to throw money at the chassis, you should take it to a well equipped shop that will check the basic things first before you start adding every aftermarket accessory out there.

[dezertcamper]

rgatijnet1 wrote:

Actually the Workhorse chassis has very beefy front and rear anti-sway bars that, unlike the Ford chassis, do not use rubber bushings. They are directly bolted to the suspension and remains consistent because there are no bushings to wear out. I have 80,000 miles on mine with no trac bar and plenty of mountain roads and travel in the Great Plains with the high winds. I have Koni FSD shocks on my WH coach.

Workhorse W22 chassis did not come with Swaybars. Those big square tubes mounted from leaf spring to leaf spring, Workhorse calls those Stabilizers or a Torsion Tube. Because the WW chassis uses such a long leaf spring to try to give it a smoother ride they chose to add these square stabilizer bars to help with sway that the spring get as they deflect. The sway is more from the springs rocking from side to side. This square tube mounted to each leaf spring was designed to help keep those springs parallel and also attempts to help with sway.

This is also why an aftermarket track bar has such a noticeable improvement on Workhorse Gas chassis vs a Ford Gas chassis. The track bar keeps the axle centered under the frame.

Here is what a authorized Workhorse service dealer said about the sway system under the Workhorse W22 chassis.

"Workhorse did not use a traditional sway bar system. There are 2 stabilizer devices on your chassis and they both look like elongated square bars. These bars are either 2.0 inch on the front or both 2.5" square, depending on the year. The front bar is mounted in between the springs and you can see it mounted below the radiator. The rear bar is mounted behind the differential at the trailing end of the leaf springs. These bars work as torque arms where the side that gets loaded in deflection applies an equal force through the bar in opposition to the force absorbed. What the bar attempts to do is center the roll rate as best as possible and to keep the axle side to side deflection as minimal as possible.

There are aftermarket devices that do this job to a higher degree depending on the need of the individual owner. These device are called an Anti-Sway Bar devices. Several aftermarket companies make these types of robust devices. These bars are massive featuring larger diameter of steel and appear much the same as an elongated U where the bar is attached to the axle and the the ends attached to the frame. Other aftermarket items used to assist on making the Workhorse chassis handle better are track bars. The track bars are mounted to the axle and the frame. These bars help center the axle and reduce the side to side shift the longer leaf spring sees in deflection. This deflection on the front springs will give the feeling of sloppy, wondering steering or what some call rut tracking. Also the usage of a steering stabilizer can also reduce some of this wondering or rut tracking felt in the steering. In the rear a track bar will help reduce a fish tail feeling as most motorhomes have large overhangs and the coach weight behind the rear axle will cause this side to side shifting. Some models feel this more as they have longer rear overhangs vs other models or brands."

s N s wrote:

:h WOW, ours is bone stock. It handles and drives like a dream.

That's good to hear. I wish mine was the same. I first added a track bar in the rear to help reduce the rear end rocking, as I pull a trailer to the desert or a boat to the river. When pulling a trailer the wag was magnified. Next was a Hellwig rear swaybar. That made a huge difference. If you think it handles good now you should feel how much better is is with a rear sway bar. Let someone who has added an aftermarket sway bar let you drive their RV in and out of a driveway, or down the freeway with a cross wind. You will for sure feel the difference.

On my Workhorse when camping I need to put my jacks down to keep from getting the sail boat rocking when just entering, exiting or walking around in the coach. Now my sister & brother in laws Ford, half of the time they dont put their jacks down and its hardly noticeable.

My ideal would be the Chevy 8.1 engine, Allison trans in a Ford chassis, but that just my opinion!

[timmac]

The 8.1 and Allison trans is a great setup, you will be happy.

As to the Ford haters, I will put my 2008 V-10 with Fords 5 speed tow-haul trans as a equal to the 8.1 and Allison.

However the F-53 has no recalls like the Workhorse does, so that makes the F-53 a tad better..

:B

[wa8yxm]

I own a Workhorse 8.1L and Allison

When you ask who makes the better engine, You may well start a religious debate, I have driven both cars by Ford, GM and Chrysler and in truth do not like Fords, This however does NOT extend to their truck engines, Their larger products are good. (like the V-10) just the smaller engines I do not like, oh there are a few other things. The ford engine is rated at a much higher RPM so the 8.1 L is in fact more powerful, with better low speed performance, This I like... Sadly.. Mine had a major problem.. Just what will have to wait for an engine-topsy to find out and that will take a couple years.

But still: I would rather drive a GM or Chrysler than a Ford (My towed is a Dodge).

But when you ask who makes the best transmission.. EVEN FORD says: ALLISON.

yup, Ford's latest improved transmission was advertised as "Ford's Answer to the Allison" which means even Ford says Allison is best.

And I have yet to find anyone who argues with Ford on that.. I also fully agree, my Allison has been fantastic.

What happened with my 8.1... usually I would use at most 1 QT of oil a year, and that only when I crossed mountains... Well, i left out of SC on June 24 I was down perhaps a cup (Having last filled in Michigan 800 miles north in November of the year before, I normally change in November) arrived where I am now on Jun 25, one month later I went to leave I got a low oil warning, Added 3 quarts and not very far later got another low oil warning, lost pressure, BOOM and the engine's blown.

How it went through that much oil in less than 300 miles I do not know.. But I'm guessing road hazard damage to filter or oil pan may have contributed since that is basically the only answer that makes sense.

[bsinmich]

I have an '03 W22 and love it. I have had no problems with it at all. The brake recall was done years ago and have had no problem since then. Workhorse is still in business and the recalls and other info is still on their website.

[cmarq]

I had a 31 ft class C on Ford super duty 450 with the V10 I now have a 38 ft class A with 8.1 and allison. It is much better than the V10.

[ctpres]

Just traded 2008 8.1 w22 with Allison in on new Ford based Thor Challenger. Short story - I miss the 8.1 Allison and ability to drive with two fingers for hours if needed. BTW I think your floor plan is same as current 37KT which we now have and love. Good luck on your search.

[rgatijnet1]

dezertcamper wrote:
The Chevy 8.1 is a great engine with plenty of power. The Allison transmission is an awesome transmission. I cant compare the Allision to the new Ford trans, but comparing the Allison to the Ford trans they were using back in the era your looking at, is no comparison and the Allison kills it! You don't hear about people having issues with the Allison Trans.

Now IMO the Workhorse suspension sucks! They have a joke of a sway bar system. In order to make my my 04 Workhorse chassis ride as nice as my family members 02 Ford chassis I had to add aftermarket Bilsteins, rear track bar & real rear sway bar. I have been told adding a front track bar & or Sway bar is a big improvement. So IMO to make the Workhorse ride as nice as the Ford I had to add $1,000 worth of suspension upgrades, and that is not doing the front suspension.

Actually the Workhorse chassis has very beefy front and rear anti-sway bars that, unlike the Ford chassis, do not use rubber bushings. They are directly bolted to the suspension and remains consistent because there are no bushings to wear out. I have 80,000 miles on mine with no trac bar and plenty of mountain roads and travel in the Great Plains with the high winds. I have Koni FSD shocks on my WH coach.

[s_N_s]

dezertcamper wrote:


Now IMO the Workhorse suspension sucks! They have a joke of a sway bar system. In order to make my my 04 Workhorse chassis ride as nice as my family members 02 Ford chassis I had to add aftermarket Bilsteins, rear track bar & real rear sway bar. I have been told adding a front track bar & or Sway bar is a big improvement. So IMO to make the Workhorse ride as nice as the Ford I had to add $1,000 worth of suspension upgrades, and that is not doing the front suspension.

:h WOW, ours is bone stock. It handles and drives like a dream.

[J-Rooster]

My Workhorse W-22, 8.1 Vortec, 496 CI actually has more power than I need. I traded in my Ford V-10 in 2004 on the Chevy 8.1 Vortec. I'm now towing a Honda CRV.