what exactly is a RV that is "4 seasons ready"?

[path1]

In our past RV's some have been advertised as "arctic package" or "extreme temp" etc. Yesterday somebody walking around our TT (Arctic Fox) and noticed a sticker that said "all seasons ready, 4 seasons" and he asked what exactly is 4 seasons ready?


My understanding that "4 seasons ready" is a good marketing ploy in the RV business with a little bit more insulation and the heater puts some heat to the water tanks via tiny holes in heater duct near the water tanks.

IMO not that big of deal and wouldn't pay a great deal more for it if I was specking out an RV.

What's your opinion of 4 seasons?

[AJR]

When I got into RVing in 2006. The most noted 4 season TT was the Arctic Fox. I bought one.

Several things made that TT four season. First was the holding tanks were enclosed in fiberglass insulation and heated by the furnace. Second was the dump valves were cable operated from inside the area of the heated enclosed holding tanks. I did not have the thermal windows that was an option at the time. It was very good a low temperatures.

The newer four season “options” I have seen do not address the valves in a meaning full manner. My current class C can be fitted with heating pads on the black & gray tanks. But the valves are exposed to the weather. Putting a barrier under all of it does not make it fit for four season use. After seeing what went into making my Fox.

[noteven]

westend wrote:

06Fargo wrote:

westend wrote:

06Fargo wrote:
Wouldn't a unit with all living and storage spaces, tanks, and systems totally enclosed within a R40 roof and R20 walls and floors envelope be nice? Drop down window insulators for cold nights or hot afternoons, low amp radiant heating, controlled heat recovery ventilation...

Sure, but you would be losing a lot of interior room by expanding the dimensions of the wall, floor, and ceiling. Triple pane, argon filled widows are a solution to better window R-value but an insulated shutter does have some merit. Radiant heating is expensive to implement. If you wish to give up space for a heat exchanger, that would be a great idea.

One thing nearly all RV's lack is a continuous vapor barrier. Also, installing a thermal break between framing and the interior walls afford a lot more comfortability.

I have some of the above in my trailer, it is easy to heat and is super quiet inside.

I am thinking closed cell foam at R7 per inch, including a thermal break between the structure and interior wall finish. So probably a 4 inch wall thickness and 6 inches roof. Radiant heat could be complicated "systems" or a couple or three marine direct vented heaters.

The unit might not be towable with a pick-em up truck OMG.

Yeah, the biggest issue with a travel trailer is the dimension of the walls and ceiling cavity. There is just so much you can do with a 1 1/2" wall. I'm pretty happy with the result of my two weeks of insulation installation. I probably have about R-7 in the walls and R-15 in the ceiling. Since the space is small, it's easy to heat and stays cooler in the Summer.
Hydronic heating is in my wish list. When I upgrade my solar, I plan to use the "load" function of the controller to power a 12V water heating element. It won't handle Winter in the oil patch but will help.

I'm thinking a custom build kind of idea. The walls would have to be as thick as needed - probably 3-1/2" with finishes. Totally insulated box with all systems contained inside the insulated envelope to control air infiltration, temperature, and humidity. The climate is controlled inside the International Space Station right? It should be possible in a RV too... on less than 50% of the budget...:B

[2gypsies1]

Do you really plan on camping in the 4 seasons? Most folks don't do winter camping or staying in the hottest areas of the country. They camp in moderate temperatures 6-9 months of the year. For that you don't need the '4 seasons' hype. Any RV will be comfortable.

[Ductape]

Not just a marketing ploy with AF. Some others perhaps.

Definition varies between manufacturers, there is no industry wide standard.

[westend]

06Fargo wrote:

westend wrote:

06Fargo wrote:
Wouldn't a unit with all living and storage spaces, tanks, and systems totally enclosed within a R40 roof and R20 walls and floors envelope be nice? Drop down window insulators for cold nights or hot afternoons, low amp radiant heating, controlled heat recovery ventilation...

Sure, but you would be losing a lot of interior room by expanding the dimensions of the wall, floor, and ceiling. Triple pane, argon filled widows are a solution to better window R-value but an insulated shutter does have some merit. Radiant heating is expensive to implement. If you wish to give up space for a heat exchanger, that would be a great idea.

One thing nearly all RV's lack is a continuous vapor barrier. Also, installing a thermal break between framing and the interior walls afford a lot more comfortability.

I have some of the above in my trailer, it is easy to heat and is super quiet inside.

I am thinking closed cell foam at R7 per inch, including a thermal break between the structure and interior wall finish. So probably a 4 inch wall thickness and 6 inches roof. Radiant heat could be complicated "systems" or a couple or three marine direct vented heaters.

The unit might not be towable with a pick-em up truck OMG.

Yeah, the biggest issue with a travel trailer is the dimension of the walls and ceiling cavity. There is just so much you can do with a 1 1/2" wall. I'm pretty happy with the result of my two weeks of insulation installation. I probably have about R-7 in the walls and R-15 in the ceiling. Since the space is small, it's easy to heat and stays cooler in the Summer.
Hydronic heating is in my wish list. When I upgrade my solar, I plan to use the "load" function of the controller to power a 12V water heating element. It won't handle Winter in the oil patch but will help.

[noteven]

westend wrote:

06Fargo wrote:
Wouldn't a unit with all living and storage spaces, tanks, and systems totally enclosed within a R40 roof and R20 walls and floors envelope be nice? Drop down window insulators for cold nights or hot afternoons, low amp radiant heating, controlled heat recovery ventilation...

Sure, but you would be losing a lot of interior room by expanding the dimensions of the wall, floor, and ceiling. Triple pane, argon filled widows are a solution to better window R-value but an insulated shutter does have some merit. Radiant heating is expensive to implement. If you wish to give up space for a heat exchanger, that would be a great idea.

One thing nearly all RV's lack is a continuous vapor barrier. Also, installing a thermal break between framing and the interior walls afford a lot more comfortability.

I have some of the above in my trailer, it is easy to heat and is super quiet inside.

I am thinking closed cell foam at R7 per inch, including a thermal break between the structure and interior wall finish. So probably a 4 inch wall thickness and 6 inches roof. Radiant heat could be complicated "systems" or a couple or three marine direct vented heaters.

The unit might not be towable with a pick-em up truck OMG.

[tatest]

There are no standards for this, it is a marketing term that each manufacturer interprets as needed to sell into a particular market.

If you have need for four-seasons use, then you need to know just what conditions that term means for you, and look for the specific construction methods and features that support your use.

What I would look for would be adequate insulation and cooling capacity for hot desert and subtropical humid summer conditions, and for sub-zero winter conditions with all plumbing and water storage in an enclosed, insulated, heated space. Stretching fabric across a space to enclose it, without heating, doesn't work for me, but started to be the standard for "fully enclosed basement" around 2004. Heated waste tanks don't make it, I have those and understand their limits.

On the other hand, I have not much interest in a RV designed for weather extremes at both ends of the climate spectrum, because I'm going to be moving around to climates that are comfortable to me when I go outside. More often I'll be trying to deal with too much heat, rather than too little.

[westend]

06Fargo wrote:
Wouldn't a unit with all living and storage spaces, tanks, and systems totally enclosed within a R40 roof and R20 walls and floors envelope be nice? Drop down window insulators for cold nights or hot afternoons, low amp radiant heating, controlled heat recovery ventilation...

Sure, but you would be losing a lot of interior room by expanding the dimensions of the wall, floor, and ceiling. Triple pane, argon filled widows are a solution to better window R-value but an insulated shutter does have some merit. Radiant heating is expensive to implement. If you wish to give up space for a heat exchanger, that would be a great idea.

One thing nearly all RV's lack is a continuous vapor barrier. Also, installing a thermal break between framing and the interior walls afford a lot more comfortability.

I have some of the above in my trailer, it is easy to heat and is super quiet inside.

[PastorCharlie]

If it has to be winterized to travel any part of the country at any season it is not 4 season.

[noteven]

Wouldn't a unit with all living and storage spaces, tanks, and systems totally enclosed within a R40 roof and R20 walls and floors envelope be nice? Drop down window insulators for cold nights or hot afternoons, low amp radiant heating, controlled heat recovery ventilation...

[coolbreeze01]

Some advertise "R" values. In reality, there is room above the ceilings and below the floors for thicker insulation. The walls just aren't thick enough to do much with.

Dual pane windows will help.

[John___Angela]

Typically a 4 season unit will have no problem dealing with minus 10 C temperatures. Some are considerably better than that. Most are designed so that you must use your furnace (as opposed to using portable heaters) as the furnace ducts air to tank areas. The dump valves are also enclosed.

Yes its a selling feature. We wouldn't have bought our coach if it wasn't "four season". Ours seems liveable down to about minus 20 C.

[windviewer]

06Fargo wrote:
A pipe dream mostly.

Have a look at Roughneck trailers: Roughneck trailers

2 x 40,000btu furnaces. That'd give the propane boo hoo's something to squawk about.

at least it comes with two 100lb propane tanks as well

[wa8yxm]

Being from Michigan I'd call an RV that is 4 Seasons Ready ..... a MYTH