Doom for the RV industry???

[azdryheat]

Illinois top court ruled a couple CAN sue and get their money back plus damages from the sale of an RV with an undisclosed defect. Every RV sold has something wrong with it and if all buyers can sue....

LINK

[free_radical]

Crowe wrote:
“We find this language plain and … subsection (1)(b) (of the UCC) does not require that a buyer give the seller an opportunity to cure.”

This is BAD news for everyone. Every Tom, Dick and Harriet will be demanding their money back for simple issues that can be fixed. This could quite conceivably just push manufacturers of ANY product out of business as the precedent has been set, not to mention they will have to build the cost of litigation into their pricing.

Or the manufacturers could make sure their products are built well in the first place.
Why is that so hard to do?

[theoldwizard1]

valhalla360 wrote:
Sounds like they were yanked around and it literally took an excessive amount of time to address.

Similar to automobiles, if they fix things in a timely manner, it's not covered by lemon laws but if it gets crazy, it is.

Lemon laws vary state to state, but in general, factory representatives (dealers) are given a certain number of attempts to repair an issue. Also there is a limited number of days that the vehicle can be away from the customer. If either are exceeded, it is a "lemon" and must be re-purchased from the customer at full price.

I am sure, every major auto manufacturer has had to "buy back" vehicles. In all case they are repaired and resold, typically with full disclosure and with the full factory warranty "clock" reset to zero.

IMHO, it about time this gets applied to RVs !

[down_home]

drsteve wrote:
No, they aren't doomed. They will, however, have to train their workers better and do QC on site instead of just shipping everything and leaving it to the dealers to find and repair defects before selling the unit.

In the end, they'll find (like the auto manufacturers) that doing it right the first time is more profitable than throwing product together and hoping for the best.

Problem is not necessarily poorly trained or poorly qualified Employees.
To make the mandated profit margins of Hedge Funds and Global Investors, that demand ten times the return we thrived on in the early seventies, they demand quick and sloppy. Let the numerous problems be dealt with at the end of the line by Trainees who will go on to work at Dealerships ect. They get to the Dealers and they examine units and send back a list of deficiencies, missing parts etc and the factory sends them a check or credit to fix them.
Rather than use that money to repair the unit, they add it to the bottom line. Customer finds it is fixed they don't and it isn't.
Getting it fixed may take months even years of trips to the Dealer.
Back to the root of the problem greed. The Hedge Funds and Investors are not in the business of building quality RVs. They are in the business of making money. Quality, and service and and warranty are not profit makers in the new world of Consumerism. Buy it, it breaks, buy two more or in something with the price tags and financial obligation incurred in the purchase spend thousands more for correction and repairs. Get it out the door as cheap as possible and the check in the Investors' accounts. Eventually these business practices will lead to unprofitability, or the levels of ,the Investors demand, and brand will be sold and prices go even higher,and qualityreduced even more since fewer brands, fewer choices has given us monopolies. a monopoly does not have to occupy the whole market to be a monopoly. Fewer Choices is now a competitive monopoly. (my words)
Eventually these practices lead to only one Survivor,in theory.
Look at what has happened to the auto industry in the US since the Seventies. how many choices do you now have? How many did we have in 1970?
However there are some RV mfgs who are in the business of Building RVs.
Country Coach, the Old Country Coach makes the new Country Coach blush in shame.

[Grit_dog]

Hooray! Maybe less scotch locks for wiring splices in the ceilings??

[midnightsadie]

x2 you said it all.

[JimK-NY]

Anyone with experience knows that RVs are poorly made. Many are very poorly made to the point where a punch list of problems is likely to require warranty repairs.

Holding the builders more accountable could be very beneficial to the industry. It could help put more emphasis on quality and could help build some customer confidence in the products.

[drsteve]

No, they aren't doomed. They will, however, have to train their workers better and do QC on site instead of just shipping everything and leaving it to the dealers to find and repair defects before selling the unit.

In the end, they'll find (like the auto manufacturers) that doing it right the first time is more profitable than throwing product together and hoping for the best.

[Crowe]

“We find this language plain and … subsection (1)(b) (of the UCC) does not require that a buyer give the seller an opportunity to cure.”

This is BAD news for everyone. Every Tom, Dick and Harriet will be demanding their money back for simple issues that can be fixed. This could quite conceivably just push manufacturers of ANY product out of business as the precedent has been set, not to mention they will have to build the cost of litigation into their pricing.

[colliehauler]

jplante4 wrote:

midnightsadie wrote:
I don,t see the doom, maybe now we,ll get some quality in the making of rv,s .remember the rust buckets the auto industry put out in the 70,s

Well, unlimited liability put the brakes on small airplane manufacturing in the 80s and 90s. Cessna and Piper virtually halted production of 2 and 4 seat planes for 15 years until they got tort relief. The new aircraft aren't that much better than the old ones, and some say they're worse. They're certainly more expensive.

Very true but you forgot Beech. They simple shut down production of small aircraft due to the liability. As soon as the laws were changed Cessna built a new plant in Independence Kansas.

It wasn't litigation that made cars better it was competition from other manufacturers.

[dodge_guy]

colliehauler wrote:

mooky stinks wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
Well its only at least 30 years late. Hopefully they will straighten up. I`ve said it for years, Ill gladly pay a bit more for better quality!

You'll pay more alright. But not for quality. It'll be for any potential litigation.

Very true, you'll just pay a lot more for the lawyer fees. Illinois has a history of making things cheaper for the consumer, NOT. Look at fuel and tag fee's that have increased.

Maybe, maybe not. I don't think any manuf would want to go through all that. If they don't do something about the quality they will have more people doing the same!

[jplante4]

midnightsadie wrote:
I don,t see the doom, maybe now we,ll get some quality in the making of rv,s .remember the rust buckets the auto industry put out in the 70,s

Well, unlimited liability put the brakes on small airplane manufacturing in the 80s and 90s. Cessna and Piper virtually halted production of 2 and 4 seat planes for 15 years until they got tort relief. The new aircraft aren't that much better than the old ones, and some say they're worse. They're certainly more expensive.

[WVcampground]

azdryheat wrote:
Illinois top court ruled a couple CAN sue and get their money back plus damages from the sale of an RV with an undisclosed defect. Every RV sold has something wrong with it and if all buyers can sue....

LINK

Posted this a week or longer ago.

Only some states have adopted UCC and of those states some have only adopted certain articles of UCC and may not have adopted the article relating to retail sales. The case stated has just been ruled on, there are appeals coming, it took years.


It's not going to be some nationwide fall back on catch all for the consumer any time soon, if ever. The RV Industry will simply circle the wagons and send out the lobbyists with pockets full of cash like is done to address any pending Lemon Law legislation. They probably have already done so and will pump cash to the dealer mentioned provided by both the RVIA and RVDA for appeals. No mention of this ruling BTW in any of the RV Industry trade publications, go figure, so it evidently got the attention of the legal dept.

[valhalla360]

Sounds like they were yanked around and it literally took an excessive amount of time to address.

Similar to automobiles, if they fix things in a timely manner, it's not covered by lemon laws but if it gets crazy, it is.

If there is any impact, it will not be to manufacturers but to Illinois dealers. It's not that far to drive to Wisc or Indiana. If Illinois gets silly, manufacturers will simply mark up any unit sold to Illinois dealers enough to cover the risk...net result is Illinois loses dealers.

[Lwiddis]

Please provide an access link to the full decision...which applies only in Illinois.

[colliehauler]

mooky stinks wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
Well its only at least 30 years late. Hopefully they will straighten up. I`ve said it for years, Ill gladly pay a bit more for better quality!

You'll pay more alright. But not for quality. It'll be for any potential litigation.

Very true, you'll just pay a lot more for the lawyer fees. Illinois has a history of making things cheaper for the consumer, NOT. Look at fuel and tag fee's that have increased.