Help with scale numbers

[oxygen]

Weighed at local grain elevator and here are the numbers

truck by itself
steer axle-3240lbs
drive axle-3000
gross weight-6240

tt + tv- WDH(equalizer) bars disconnected

steer axle- 2940
drive axle- 4200
trailer axle - 5360lbs.
gross weight- 12500

tt + tv-WDH engaged

steer axle- 3060
drive axle- 3900
trailer axle- 5540
gross weight- 12500

tv is Rockwood Ultra Lite, ship weight- 5676, hitch weight- 739
gvwr- 6739, this info taken from web site, yellow sticker on side of tv for dry weight is 5840lbs

tv iv 2012 f150 EB, screw, heavy duty, payload is 2440lbs.

please ?check my math

total gross weight mlnus truck gross, engaged = trailer weight = 5540lbs

tv engaged Wdh minus tv unhitched = 720lbs , weight transfered to tv

tt hitched axle weight minus tt unhitched axle weight = 180lbs.

720lbs. + 180lbs. = 9oolb tongue weight

tongue weight is 16% of tt weight

front axle tv unhitched minus hitched front axle = 300lbs.

engaging wdh put back 180lbs to steer axle

is tongue weight added to tt axle weight to get tt weight?

any adjustments needed?






any adjustments i should make to wdh?

[oxygen]

1. We travel with 1 propane tank always filled
2.water tank is up front but tend to not travel with water.

3. It appears that front axle, wdh engaged is putting all of the weight back to front axle. Manual suggests approximately 50% being transfered.
Do i reduce this over adjustment?

4. Is the 10% tw\tt weight too low? What advantage is there to add more front tt weight?

5. Does increasing the tw/tt ratio change all weights on frt/back axle tv? I assume rear axle would go up and front axle show slight drop, which should lower the high front weight.

[TomG2]

"Any advice on adding more weight to front of tv?"

Not sure why you want to add weight to front of tv, but the hitch can be adjusted to accomplish that. A second battery and moving the spare tire to the A-frame are two good ways to increase TT tongue weight.

[Ron_Gratz]

oxygen wrote:
---Any advice on adding more weight to front of tv?

Do you travel with full propane tanks?

Will you normally travel with as little TT cargo as on the first trip?
If you add more weight, can you put it in a front storage area?

Where is the fresh water tank located? Did you have water in it?

Ron

[oxygen]

Ron Gratz wrote:
ASSUMING THE FOLLOWING VALUES ARE CORRECT:

truck by itself, no wdh attachd

front axle-

3200# assuming 40# would be removed by extra "tongue weight" due to 100# WDH

gross tv-

6340# assuming 100# would be added by the 100# WDH

rear axle-

3140# assuming 140# would be added by extra "tongue weight" due to 100# WDH

truck hitched but bars NOT engaged

front axle- 2940
tt & tv- 12300
trailer -5360
rear axle-

4000# using tt&tv = 12300

THE TRAILER WEIGHT WOULD BE: 12300-6340 = 5960#

That value seems rather low given the dry weight of 5840#.
Was the trailer essentially empty when you weighed it?

Ron

Yes, went on short weekend since this was first time out with the new tt. and we normally don't load up with lots of extras. Any advice on adding more weight to front of tv?

[Ron_Gratz]

ASSUMING THE FOLLOWING VALUES ARE CORRECT:

truck by itself, no wdh attachd

front axle-

3200# assuming 40# would be removed by extra "tongue weight" due to 100# WDH

gross tv-

6340# assuming 100# would be added by the 100# WDH

rear axle-

3140# assuming 140# would be added by extra "tongue weight" due to 100# WDH

truck hitched but bars NOT engaged

front axle- 2940
tt & tv- 12300
trailer -5360
rear axle-

4000# using tt&tv = 12300

THE TRAILER WEIGHT WOULD BE: 12300-6340 = 5960#

That value seems rather low given the dry weight of 5840#.
Was the trailer essentially empty when you weighed it?

Ron

[oxygen]

Is the tt weight 5960lbs + tw 600 = 6560 or just the 5960lbs?

[oxygen]

Ron Gratz wrote:

oxygen wrote:
12300 was the scale value, the 12500 was scale value + DW and heavy dog who were not present when weight.---

Okay, that takes care of part of the problem. Your reported values need to be adjusted both for the missing WDH and for the 200# added for WD +dog. The adjusted values are shown in

red

:

truck by itself, no wdh attachd, i was sitting in truck with all 3 weight

front axle-3240

3200# assuming 40# removed by tongue weight

gross tv- 6040
rear axle- 3000,

3140# assuming 140# added by tongue weight

truck hitched but bars NOT engaged

front axle- 2940
tt & tv- 12300
trailer -5360
rear axle- 4200,

4000# using tt&tv = 12300

truck hitch, wdh engaged

front axle- 3060
gross weigh- 12300
trailer- 5540
rear axle- 3900,

3700# using tt&tv = 12300

WITH THESE CHANGES, THE NEW ANALYSIS IS:

The "adjusted" weights for TV only are
Front = 3240-40 = 3200#, Rear = 3000+140 = 3140#, TV GVW = 6340#.

For TV+TT w/ no WD, Front = 2940#, Rear = 4000#, TT axles = 5360#

The indicated tongue weight is (2940+4000)-(3200+3140) = 600#.
The indicated total TT weight is 12300-6340= 5960#.
The indicated tongue weight percentage = 600/5960 = 10%.

The indicated load removed from the front axle is 3200-2940 = 260#.
With a 600# TW, I would expect approximately 250# removed.

For TV+TT w/ WD, Front = 3060#, Rear = 3700#, TT axles = 5540#.

The indicated load added to the TT axles by WD is 5540-5360 = 180#.
The indicated load added to the TV's front axle by WD is 3060-2940 = 120#.
It is physically impossible for your rig to have 180# transferred to the TT axles, while having only 120# transferred to the TV's front axle.
The amount transferred to the front axle should be close to 340#.

The indicated load removed from the rear is 4000-3700 = 300#. The amount removed from the rear should be close to 520#.

After accounting for the WDH not being included in the "TV only" weights, the indicated tongue weight now is 600#.
However, there still is a significant discrepancy between the hitched with WD and hitched without WD values.

If you add 220# to the front hitched with WD value of 3060#, it becomes 3280#.
That then makes the calculated rear value 12300-3280-5540 = 3480#.
This would resolve the large discrepancy.
It looks to me as though about 220# was missing from the TV when the front axle hitched with WD applied measurement was made.

Ron

When I first pulled onto scale with tt + tv engaged,i had to go into weigh room to find the lady operator and I bet she took that weight before I got back into my rig. My weight is around 220.
Thanks Ron for sticking with me

[Ron_Gratz]

oxygen wrote:
12300 was the scale value, the 12500 was scale value + DW and heavy dog who were not present when weight.---

Okay, that takes care of part of the problem. Your reported values need to be adjusted both for the missing WDH and for the 200# added for WD +dog. The adjusted values are shown in

red

:

truck by itself, no wdh attachd, i was sitting in truck with all 3 weight

front axle-3240

3200# assuming 40# removed by tongue weight

gross tv- 6040
rear axle- 3000,

3140# assuming 140# added by tongue weight

truck hitched but bars NOT engaged

front axle- 2940
tt & tv- 12300
trailer -5360
rear axle- 4200,

4000# using tt&tv = 12300

truck hitch, wdh engaged

front axle- 3060
gross weigh- 12300
trailer- 5540
rear axle- 3900,

3700# using tt&tv = 12300

WITH THESE CHANGES, THE NEW ANALYSIS IS:

The "adjusted" weights for TV only are
Front = 3240-40 = 3200#, Rear = 3000+140 = 3140#, TV GVW = 6340#.

For TV+TT w/ no WD, Front = 2940#, Rear = 4000#, TT axles = 5360#

The indicated tongue weight is (2940+4000)-(3200+3140) = 600#.
The indicated total TT weight is 12300-6340= 5960#.
The indicated tongue weight percentage = 600/5960 = 10%.

The indicated load removed from the front axle is 3200-2940 = 260#.
With a 600# TW, I would expect approximately 250# removed.

For TV+TT w/ WD, Front = 3060#, Rear = 3700#, TT axles = 5540#.

The indicated load added to the TT axles by WD is 5540-5360 = 180#.
The indicated load added to the TV's front axle by WD is 3060-2940 = 120#.
It is physically impossible for your rig to have 180# transferred to the TT axles, while having only 120# transferred to the TV's front axle.
The amount transferred to the front axle should be close to 340#.

The indicated load removed from the rear is 4000-3700 = 300#. The amount removed from the rear should be close to 520#.

After accounting for the WDH not being included in the "TV only" weights, the indicated tongue weight now is 600#.
However, there still is a significant discrepancy between the hitched with WD and hitched without WD values.

If you add 220# to the front hitched with WD value of 3060#, it becomes 3280#.
That then makes the calculated rear value 12300-3280-5540 = 3480#.
This would resolve the large discrepancy.
It looks to me as though about 220# was missing from the TV when the front axle hitched with WD applied measurement was made.

Ron

[oxygen]

One other thing to remember is that the truck is aheavy duty model

[oxygen]

Ron Gratz wrote:

oxygen wrote:
I just took scale weights, left the DW and dog out of the picture

Okay, let's take the scale numbers and make an adjustment for the WDH which was not included in the "T only" values.
We'll assume the WDH would remove 40# from the front axle and add 140# to the rear axle.

The "adjusted" weights for TV only are
Front = 3240-40 = 3200#, Rear = 3000+140 = 3140#, TV GVW = 6340#.

For TV+TT w/ no WD, Front = 2940#, Rear = 4200#, TT axles = 5360#

The indicated tongue weight is (2940+4200)-(3200+3140) = 800#.
The indicated total TT weight is 12500-6340= 6160#.i


The indicated tongue weight percentage = 800/6160 = 13%.

The indicated load removed from the front axle is 3200-2940 = 260#.
With an 800# TW, I would expect closer to 340# removed.

For TV+TT w/ WD, Front = 3060#, Rear = 3900#, TT axles = 5540#.

The indicated load added to the TT axles by WD is 5540-5360 = 180#.
The indicated load added to the TV's front axle by WD is 3060-2940 = 120#.
It is physically impossible for your rig to have 180# transferred to the TT axles, while having only 120# transferred to the TV's front axle.
The amount transferred to the front axle should be close to 340#.

The indicated load removed from the rear is 4200-3900 = 300#.
The amount removed from the rear should be close to 520#.

After accounting for the WDH not being included in the "TV only" weights, the indicated tongue weight now is 800#.
However, based on what you've reported there, there still is a discrepancy between the expected load removal from the front axle.
And, there still is a significant discrepancy between the hitched with WD and hitched without WD values.

BTW -- your first post says the GCW is 12,500#. The latest post says the GCW is 12,300#. Which is correct? My analysis above assumes the GCW is 12,500#.

Ron

12300 was the scale value, the 12500 was scale value + DW and heavy dog who were not present when weight. The values listed are straight from the scale lady handout. It will take me some time to digest your figues and respond back
Thanks again

[Ron_Gratz]

oxygen wrote:
I just took scale weights, left the DW and dog out of the picture

Okay, let's take the scale numbers and make an adjustment for the WDH which was not included in the "T only" values.
We'll assume the WDH would remove 40# from the front axle and add 140# to the rear axle.

The "adjusted" weights for TV only are
Front = 3240-40 = 3200#, Rear = 3000+140 = 3140#, TV GVW = 6340#.

For TV+TT w/ no WD, Front = 2940#, Rear = 4200#, TT axles = 5360#

The indicated tongue weight is (2940+4200)-(3200+3140) = 800#.
The indicated total TT weight is 12500-6340= 6160#.
The indicated tongue weight percentage = 800/6160 = 13%.

The indicated load removed from the front axle is 3200-2940 = 260#.
With an 800# TW, I would expect closer to 340# removed.

For TV+TT w/ WD, Front = 3060#, Rear = 3900#, TT axles = 5540#.

The indicated load added to the TT axles by WD is 5540-5360 = 180#.
The indicated load added to the TV's front axle by WD is 3060-2940 = 120#.
It is physically impossible for your rig to have 180# transferred to the TT axles, while having only 120# transferred to the TV's front axle.
The amount transferred to the front axle should be close to 340#.

The indicated load removed from the rear is 4200-3900 = 300#.
The amount removed from the rear should be close to 520#.

After accounting for the WDH not being included in the "TV only" weights, the indicated tongue weight now is 800#.
However, based on what you've reported there, there still is a discrepancy between the expected load removal from the front axle.
And, there still is a significant discrepancy between the hitched with WD and hitched without WD values.

BTW -- your first post says the GCW is 12,500#. The latest post says the GCW is 12,300#. Which is correct? My analysis above assumes the GCW is 12,500#.

Ron

[oxygen]

Ron Gratz wrote:

oxygen wrote:
truck by itsef, no wdh attachd, i was sitting in truck with all 3 weight

front axle-3240
gross tv- 6040
fear axle- 3000, calculated from fist two

truck hitched but bars NOT engaged

front axle- 2940
tt & tv- 12300
trailer -5360
rear axle- 4200, calculated

truck hitch, wdh engaged

front axle- 3060
gross weigh- 12300
trailer- 5540
rear axle- 3900, calculated

Where did you add the 200# for DW + dog?

I just took scale weights, left the DW and dog out of the picture

[Ron_Gratz]

oxygen wrote:
truck by itsef, no wdh attachd, i was sitting in truck with all 3 weight

front axle-3240
gross tv- 6040
fear axle- 3000, calculated from fist two

truck hitched but bars NOT engaged

front axle- 2940
tt & tv- 12300
trailer -5360
rear axle- 4200, calculated

truck hitch, wdh engaged

front axle- 3060
gross weigh- 12300
trailer- 5540
rear axle- 3900, calculated

Where did you add the 200# for DW + dog?

[Ron_Gratz]

oxygen wrote:
1. is wdh to be attached when weighing only truck? I had it removed.

IMO, the WDH should be in the receiver and the bars should be in the WDH when all weighing is done.

2. tt + tv, wdh not engaged, i left the bars hanging inhead socket..should they have been put into tt?

It's best to leave the bars hanging in the sockets.

is wdhand bars considered part of tt or tv or combination of both when it comes to weight numbers?

Strictly speaking -- the shank and ball mount should be considered part of the TV and the bars should be considered part of the TT.
However, I think it's easier, and sufficient, to treat the entire WDH as part of the TV.

Ron