Is Yosemite really closed??

[Fresno_Tundra_D]

I don't want to get into anything political here but I have an interesting question. Isn't saying that Yosemite is closed kind of like saying the ocean is closed? I mean the ocean is still there just like Yosemite is still there. Yosemite was used long before the NPS was created. The reason I ask is Tioga pass is open and there is access to Yosemite. I know of some campers that are still up there(backpackers actually). Sometimes I think certain things are done by the feds to be punitive to the people. I've said too much already...

[mileshuff]

10..9..8..7..

[shakyjay]

monkey44 wrote:
QUOTE: Yes and no. Passing them does create the obligation for Congress to fund them.

Not true, if it were an obligation, we wouldn't be where we are. Unless congress is breaking the law.

No they are not breaking the law at least in that regard. Something we have lost in our country is ethics. Just because we don't have a legal obligation does not mean there is not an ethical one.

[D___M]

Gale Hawkins wrote:
I just wish someone fully fund SS for me before they fund who knows what.

Funding ACA is NOT in question. It is How To fund ACA and a ton of other stuff that is in question or more correctly what is to be unfunded to pay for new unfunded laws. What we are doing today is abusing the kids of today and tomorrow's financial chances in life.

x2

[Gale_Hawkins]

I just wish someone fully fund SS for me before they fund who knows what.

Funding ACA is NOT in question. It is How To fund ACA and a ton of other stuff that is in question or more correctly what is to be unfunded to pay for new unfunded laws. What we are doing today is abusing the kids of today and tomorrow's financial chances in life.

[monkey44]

QUOTE: Yes and no. Passing them does create the obligation for Congress to fund them.

Not true, if it were an obligation, we wouldn't be where we are. Unless congress is breaking the law.

[shakyjay]

My reference to the Supreme Court was not in regards to The Affordable Care Act. I clearly stated it was in regards to the Citizens United Case. That is the one that opened up the political contribution flood gates from corporations and all sorts of thinly veiled sources.
Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission

I have not at all forgotten that The Affordable Care Act has undergone many transformations including the one imposed by The Supreme Court. That is the part of the problem with what is occurring with this fiasco now. There was a great deal of debate and compromise regarding this issue prior to it's passage. That is why the politicians who now say that the President is unwilling to compromise are out of line. The compromise on this issue was done. There is a faction within the Republican Party who have made no secret that their agenda is to abolish this law. I'm OK with their right to do that, I just have a problem with their methods. They know full well that the President cannot and will not capitulate. That being the case it is obvious that their intent is to disrupt the democratic process and throw our government into turmoil. There are things about The Affordable Care Act that concern me however it was passed in a fair vote and as such it should be funded and allowed to move forward and either succeed or fail on it's own.

I too would like to see the parks reopen but as far as this piece meal approach I do not agree with it. It is just another way of playing a political game. The Senate sent a clean CR to the House they should vote on it. If it passes fine if it doesn't then you work it out until you can agree. Under no circumstances should a piece of legislation that has already been passed and upheld be singled out in this manner.

monkey44 wrote:
Passed laws don't mean diddly-squat unless funded.

Yes and no. Passing them does create the obligation for Congress to fund them. This was part of the debate prior to passage. It is time to move past all of that and get on with running our country and keeping our government viable.

[monkey44]

Quote: They are trying to make it as hard as possible for the little guy IMO.

The little guy? That's the only person getting hurt here. How fast was that bill passed for the soldiers that lost there lives defending this country and the parks? (Major outcry) How fast was the bill passed to pay the government worker - including congress? (Major outcry) How fast will the "necessary functions" open (soon as WE make enough noise) ... seems like a pick and choose closure to me, and WE should never stand for it. I know exactly where my vote won't be next time.

This entire congress should stand in a corner with dunce caps on until this budget is law. Period. Doesn't matter who is right or wrong, or who thinks they're right or wrong. It's ALWAYS about compromise, and that's just not happening.

Passed laws don't mean diddly-squat unless funded.

[lbrjet]

shakyjay wrote:

JJBIRISH wrote:

lbrjet wrote:

JJBIRISH wrote:
Quite simply put using blackmail and extortion to get what you already lost (twice) isn’t going to do it…

I agree. The Dems lost the house in the prior two elections and now they are throwing a hissy fit because they can't get their own way.

nice spin, I hope it didn’t take too much of your time… :B
it matters not what side of the isle you sit or how far right or left, one thing is clear to anyone that can at least be honest with themselves…

the right side of this congress has been nothing but obstructionist, and for many of them that is their only agenda, with a faction of their own ranks playing the role of destructionist and mutinous to members of their own party…
what no one will say out loud is the attack from the right on the presidency, is race motivated plain and simple, and has nothing to do with policy… apparently the country wasn’t ready yet…

but let’s not kid ourselves here, neither side is a government for the people any more… we have the best government corporate dollars can buy and it is just the different corporate dollars running different sides of the government today…

this has become a war of affluence and influence, driven by greed… a lot less political than you might think…

like it or not, ACA is the law and funding it also the law… urgency comes mostly from those that have devoted so much of their time and equity disparaging it, to dismantle it before to many find out it is as bad as they said it would be…

X2

I will only add that in my opinion The Supreme Court played a huge part in this when they made their ruling for Citizens United. This opened the flood gates. Such as it is that is the path we are now on.

JJ, not as much time as you have devoted...

As for the Supreme Court they threw out a main piece of the legislation: forcing states to expand their Medicaid rolls. They also said you must call the penalty what it is: a tax. How soon we forget that a big part of the law was thrown out.

By the way I have no beef with Obamacare. I would like the Dems to open the parks and fund head start and pay veteran benefits. The house has passed these bills and the Dems won't pass them. They are trying to make it as hard as possible for the little guy IMO.

[mockturtle]

The answer will someday emerge, perhaps a Executive Branch independent of political party backing. Maybe then we can elect a true leader, because we haven't had one in way too many years.

Sad but true.

[monkey44]

WE put these politicians in office, and now WE'RE paying the price.

I'd kinda wonder if this really surprises anyone. Been going on for years and years, but never affected us in quite this way. The public has not been so blatantly hurt and mostly ignored the power it gives to a two-party system. It can and will deadlock, it just doesn't affect us as this shutdown.

The answer will someday emerge, perhaps a Executive Branch independent of political party backing. Maybe then we can elect a true leader, because we haven't had one in way too many years.

[bukhrn]

DiskDoctr wrote:
Step 1: UN-Federate the parks and lands

Step 2: WITHOLD states' citizen's tax money from the federal gov't- at least while they are on STRIKE.

Step 3: RE-EVALUATE which items absolutely MUST be managed by the federal gov't and why.

Remember, there is no such thing as 'Federal Monies' to withhold from the country. ALL monies are from the citizens. Simply have each STATE hold whatever tax monies were supposed to go to the federal gov't.

Sort of like escrowing your rent money during a landlord dispute. You are still paying, but 'they' can't get it until they get their******together.

The 'danger' of that is the states may realize they can manage their own resources- such as roads, education, healthcare, and PARKS/LANDS- better without federal interference.

Just like a strike that goes on too long ends up killing the company and losing its customers :B

As for 'protecting' federal lands, the federal gov't either will or will not. They've abandoned their posts, shirked their responsibilities. So it's time to find another solution.

Simple. If they don't want to do their job, someone else would be happy to do so 😉

Really, then why do we keep electing the same ones over & over again.

[tbred]

JJBIRISH must not like my political views because I am a woman. I guess because he disagrees with me makes him a sexist!

[nickthehunter]

Wow took 10 pages to play the race card - surprising. If you think my despise for the president is race related, your delusional. It's much more basic than that, good try though. Sorry your race card is worn, torn and useless.

[shakyjay]

JJBIRISH wrote:

lbrjet wrote:

JJBIRISH wrote:
Quite simply put using blackmail and extortion to get what you already lost (twice) isn’t going to do it…

I agree. The Dems lost the house in the prior two elections and now they are throwing a hissy fit because they can't get their own way.

nice spin, I hope it didn’t take too much of your time… :B
it matters not what side of the isle you sit or how far right or left, one thing is clear to anyone that can at least be honest with themselves…

the right side of this congress has been nothing but obstructionist, and for many of them that is their only agenda, with a faction of their own ranks playing the role of destructionist and mutinous to members of their own party…
what no one will say out loud is the attack from the right on the presidency, is race motivated plain and simple, and has nothing to do with policy… apparently the country wasn’t ready yet…

but let’s not kid ourselves here, neither side is a government for the people any more… we have the best government corporate dollars can buy and it is just the different corporate dollars running different sides of the government today…

this has become a war of affluence and influence, driven by greed… a lot less political than you might think…

like it or not, ACA is the law and funding it also the law… urgency comes mostly from those that have devoted so much of their time and equity disparaging it, to dismantle it before to many find out it is as bad as they said it would be…

X2

I will only add that in my opinion The Supreme Court played a huge part in this when they made their ruling for Citizens United. This opened the flood gates. Such as it is that is the path we are now on.