Payload weight distribution question

[Brngrhd]

How does that all play out? If you have 1400lb payload and 1000lb tongue weight that leaves 400lbs for passengers and other "stuff" if your hitch moves 300lbs back onto the TT does that free up 300lbs of payload?

[APT]

For travel trailers, I agree. For other types of trailers like flatbeds and boats - power and component strength is still a factor.

[Brngrhd]

APT wrote:

Brngrhd wrote:
...the 3.55's which give a trailer max weight of 85-8800 depending on where you read it, if it had 3.92's it goes up to 10-10,500 depending on source...how does that make 1500lb capacity

Because the differential applies more torque to the wheels for the same engine speed and gear with 3.92 than 3.55, about 10% between those two (3.92/3.55). GCWR is what the engine/trans/gears have to move. So let's say the Ram weighs 5500 pounds with 8500 pounds and 10000 pounds of tow rating. That's 14000 and 15500. Hey, that's 10% more again. Keep in mind towing an RV anywhere near 8000 pounds with a half ton is likely to exceed some other rating. The 10k ratings are not exactly helpful, but the extra torque is!

As far as the original question about payload, a correctly adjusted WDH will remove some amount of weight from the TV's axles, thus increasing payload. But it is typically more in the 20% range from those that have scaled weights. Front axle load restoration as well as greatly decreasing rear axle load.

I get that too but imho with the power of todays tow vehicles it isn't a problem pulling it becomes a problem of suspension, controlling and stopping the weight, which the 3.55 &3.92 are the same. Guess that more the point I was thinking about.

[APT]

Brngrhd wrote:
...the 3.55's which give a trailer max weight of 85-8800 depending on where you read it, if it had 3.92's it goes up to 10-10,500 depending on source...how does that make 1500lb capacity

Because the differential applies more torque to the wheels for the same engine speed and gear with 3.92 than 3.55, about 10% between those two (3.92/3.55). GCWR is what the engine/trans/gears have to move. So let's say the Ram weighs 5500 pounds with 8500 pounds and 10000 pounds of tow rating. That's 14000 and 15500. Hey, that's 10% more again. Keep in mind towing an RV anywhere near 8000 pounds with a half ton is likely to exceed some other rating. The 10k ratings are not exactly helpful, but the extra torque is!

As far as the original question about payload, a correctly adjusted WDH will remove some amount of weight from the TV's axles, thus increasing payload. But it is typically more in the 20% range from those that have scaled weights. Front axle load restoration as well as greatly decreasing rear axle load.

[RinconVTR]

Brngrhd wrote:

RinconVTR wrote:

I prefer to calculate exactly as you are doing, using OEM ratings with logic and actual weights. Just keep in mind, real weights can only come from the scale. When your so close to the specs, start watching axle weights and gross combined weight, which are more critical than payload, by far.

Yes there is a local farmer that has a certified scale that I'll be using to weigh everything and also see what the WDH is doing exactly. Which brings me to my other "issue" on my 2012 ram. I have the 3.55's which give a trailer max weight of 85-8800 depending on where you read it, if it had 3.92's it goes up to 10-10,500 depending on source.... Now being a Chrysler jeep dodge ram technician since 1997 I can tell you that everything other then ring and pinion is exactly the same; springs, shocks, housing, brakes, axles EVERYTHING is the same how does that make 1500lb capacity. Axle weights same, GVWR same, payload same.....

Sounds to me that you have more detailed knowledge and experience than most common folk. I think you have more than enough information and are smart enough to "do the right thing" in whatever you chose to do here. I feel safe knowing people like you are on the road.

[Brngrhd]

RinconVTR wrote:

I prefer to calculate exactly as you are doing, using OEM ratings with logic and actual weights. Just keep in mind, real weights can only come from the scale. When your so close to the specs, start watching axle weights and gross combined weight, which are more critical than payload, by far.

Yes there is a local farmer that has a certified scale that I'll be using to weigh everything and also see what the WDH is doing exactly. Which brings me to my other "issue" on my 2012 ram. I have the 3.55's which give a trailer max weight of 85-8800 depending on where you read it, if it had 3.92's it goes up to 10-10,500 depending on source.... Now being a Chrysler jeep dodge ram technician since 1997 I can tell you that everything other then ring and pinion is exactly the same; springs, shocks, housing, brakes, axles EVERYTHING is the same how does that make 1500lb capacity. Axle weights same, GVWR same, payload same.....

[RinconVTR]

Brngrhd wrote:
How does that all play out? If you have 1400lb payload and 1000lb tongue weight that leaves 400lbs for passengers and other "stuff" if your hitch moves 300lbs back onto the TT does that free up 300lbs of payload?

You're catching the "weight police" in action and you are asking the right questions in return!!!

The WDH distributes/moves weight to the TT axles and the front axle of the TV. Technically (by the numbers) it does affect payload by the amount transferred from the TV to the TT, and there is no basis to argue this fact. It is an easily verified fact.

This is the other side of the story; Some try skirt the ratings using WDH. For example, you could easily be over a tongue weight spec, but with WDH the actual weight on the tongue is "reduced". Being over the OEM rating is over the rating. Using WDH to cheat the ratings is no different than using air bags or HD rear springs to level an over loaded truck. Over the ratings is over the ratings, and the weight police also throw around a made up 80% rule to alow even more tolerance. Subtract 20% from all your ratings they say.

I prefer to calculate exactly as you are doing, using OEM ratings with logic and actual weights. Just keep in mind, real weights can only come from the scale. When your so close to the specs, start watching axle weights and gross combined weight, which are more critical than payload, by far.

[Brngrhd]

I didn't take a "shot" at anyone. I was making sure that the numbers will be good hence why I was making sure that the weight a WD hitch moves comes off the payload number. I think it will be under the numbers.... What I have read is that if your close people on here tell you to "truck up" I will do that when I buy my next truck I'm not getting rid of this truck because I'm at its upper limits of what it is rated for.

[fla-gypsy]

Like so many of these threads the OP got someone to agree to something that is not logical and is very subjective while taking a cheap shot at those who believe the truck makers engineers set limits based on real numbers and in a manner they agree on for many reasons. The OP can do anything they want with their vehicle but staying within all the ratings is the right and smart thing to do.

[Brngrhd]

Well our travels will be limited to hitting the local camping areas, hour trip or so, not going cross country..... My truck is a 2012 1/2ton ram with 20k miles on it..... My next truck will probably be a 3/4ton but I'm going to see if this old hack will work for a couple years.

[TomG2]

So, the hitch transfers 300# to the TT axles and it itself weighs approx. 100#, resulting in a net payload "gain" of 200#. Are you really that close on payload that a couple hundred pounds (about the weight of one guest) makes a difference? Too close for me.

[Ron_Gratz]

Brngrhd wrote:
How does that all play out? If you have 1400lb payload and 1000lb tongue weight that leaves 400lbs for passengers and other "stuff" if your hitch moves 300lbs back onto the TT does that free up 300lbs of payload?

Without WD, the entire 1000# tongue weight will be carried on your TV.

The WDH does not create load -- it only transfers loads among the axles.

If the WDH is adjusted to transfer 300# to the TT's axles, then the amount of load transferred to the TV is only700#.

That frees up 300# of TV payload.

Ron

[Brngrhd]

Taz 23 wrote:
OR BIGGER:W

LOL VERY true probably a 1ton SRW or even a DRW HA!

[Taz_23]

Brngrhd wrote:

skipnchar wrote:
No it will not increase your payload.

I didn't say increase my payload....

ependydad wrote:
Payload is anything any were pushing down on the truck (passengers, cargo, tongue weight, etc.).

If you move weight to the TT physically moving the items or distributing weight via the WDH - you gain in your truck's payload.

That's what I was thinking, thank you!

RinconVTR wrote:
There are some payload rating crazy people on here, and rating crazy people who fall into the category of the "weight police".

Payload ratings are not the end all number to be concerned about, because you see, not all payload affects the rear end like tongue weight.

But if you're close to the payload rating, you need to use a scale and make sure other numbers are within spec or at least near. Mainly rear axle weight rating and gross combined weight rating.

Thanks I'm going to have to scale this thing out in the spring. I know after reading/lurking on here if I post the combo most will tell me I need a 3/4 ton.

OR BIGGER:W

[Brngrhd]

skipnchar wrote:
No it will not increase your payload.

I didn't say increase my payload....

ependydad wrote:
Payload is anything any were pushing down on the truck (passengers, cargo, tongue weight, etc.).

If you move weight to the TT physically moving the items or distributing weight via the WDH - you gain in your truck's payload.

That's what I was thinking, thank you!

RinconVTR wrote:
There are some payload rating crazy people on here, and rating crazy people who fall into the category of the "weight police".

Payload ratings are not the end all number to be concerned about, because you see, not all payload affects the rear end like tongue weight.

But if you're close to the payload rating, you need to use a scale and make sure other numbers are within spec or at least near. Mainly rear axle weight rating and gross combined weight rating.

Thanks I'm going to have to scale this thing out in the spring. I know after reading/lurking on here if I post the combo most will tell me I need a 3/4 ton.