Protect your expensive electronics

[homefor2]

Last year, the park I stay in had several electrical issues. I know of a fried microwave, 2 fridges, and a inverter fire. This year so far, 2 more fridges and a TV. It's well known that there are big voltage fluctuations here yet people either don't know about electrical protection or ignore it and hope it won't happen to them.

I just ordered an EMS (electrical management system) that protects from too low, too high voltage, reversed polarity, bad ground etc. It shuts down and continues to measure voltage then comes back on if it returns to a safe level. I'm no electrician but it seems that all those that are at risk should protect their expensive electronics with something more than a surge protector.

[time2roll]

bid_time wrote:
In 15 years of camping I have never had an electrical issue. But if I did, I have insurance. I don't sweat the small stuff and I don't pet the sweating stuff. I have higher priorities than spending $300 on a EMS.

The stuff is easy. Returning home early and losing the vacation time is what is hard to replace.

Mine catches something every year.

[SoundGuy]

Dan_L wrote:
I have experienced a problems running on a generator. It indicates an open ground. Does anyone have experience running a generator with a surge protector? What do I need to do to make the SP happy?

You haven't told us which genset you have but if it's an inverter style then it almost for sure will have a floating neutral output that your Progressive EMS interprets as an open ground. The solution is to G-N (ground - neutral) bond the genset output. You can make your own adapter or buy a ready made one from Progressive Industries.

[Dan_L]

I have a 30 amp SP from Progressive hardwired into my 5th Wheel. In the last 5 years that I have had it I have had shutdowns for low voltage. Using a meter I confirmed low voltage at the pedestal, at times 105 volts. Mostly (frequently)a problem at state parks, but have seen it in private parks also.

It has also protected me in a couple of CGs that have open grounds. It is well worth the investment.

I believe many of these parks have older wiring that lacks capacity as they have expanded, or it was not designed to handle the loads of modern RVs, as most problems occur in near full CGs during hot A/C weather.

I have built capability (a floor port) to run an extension cord into the RV for non-sensitive equipment like heaters, toaster, coffee maker, etc., thus bypassing the SP, but it is a pain.

I have experienced a problems running on a generator. It indicates an open ground. Does anyone have experience running a generator with a surge protector? What do I need to do to make the SP happy?

[SoundGuy]

TyroneandGladys wrote:
Camper next to me stated he would not have one of those voltage things like mine because his wife would be upset with turning the electricity off like mine was.

Really "smart" wife. :S

Found out later over the next months they replaced about everything electronic in there RV.

Well maybe not so much. :R

Another Camper told me when I told him that the park was suffering from low voltage that he was ok he had a meter plugged in inside the RV.

Yeah, that'll solve it. :S :S

[TyroneandGladys]

Camper next to me stated he would not have one of those voltage things like mine because his wife would be upset with turning the electricity off like mine was. Found out later over the next months they replaced about everything electronic in there RV.
Another Camper told me when I told him that the park was suffering from low voltage that he was ok he had a meter plugged in inside the RV.

[ktmrfs]

My EMS has caught about a dozen cases with intermittent or open grounds on campground supplies. Probably mostly because I have a 30A trailer and those 30A outlets get used a lot and seldom replaced when needed.

[pianotuna]

Hi temccarthy1,

A sola basic autoformer has 3 levels of boost (110, 100, 90 volts) and one level of buck (135 volts). I've added surge protection to mine.

Shut down voltage on your EMS is 104 not 108 volts. That is too low for my comfort level.

temccarthy1 wrote:
Our new EMS shut down power 4-5 times a day for 5 days to our TT for OVERVOLTAGE which was exceeding 134 volts! I talked to the park Ranger who said, YES, they have had this problem for 2 years and he is aware of the cumulative damage it will do to electronics, AC and other appliances in a camper... said their NY state park engineers have not got around to fixing! He said very few campers own one of these EMS devices because of the cost are are unaware of the problem! Outrageous! The very next campground also in NY state, had our EMS shut down twice for LOW voltage ( under 108 Volts, which will also damage same appliances and electronics. So unless you have thousands saved up to replace these appliances and electronics after only a year or 2 of use, GET ONE OF THESE EMS units.. Progressive is the best with the ONLY lifetime warranty!

[temccarthy1]

SoundGuy wrote:

bid_time wrote:
In 15 years of camping I have never had an electrical issue.

Correction - you only think you've never had "an electrical issue" because it's not resulted in immediate and catastrophic failure. Fact is, that's what often happens, goes unnoticed, but that doesn't mean an event didn't happen nor that it didn't result in accumulating damage that will eventually result in equipment failure. The reality is that source power anomalies are FAR more common than most realize, with spikes and surges taking as little as nanoseconds to milliseconds to occur ... and you're going to notice that? An EMS will - not only "notice" it but also take appropriate action, sending excessive spikes and surges to ground, disconnecting power completely for a variety of other line anomalies such as low or high voltage, pedestal wiring errors, loss of ground, etc, etc. I too ran for years without any "protection" but now I know better and wouldn't ever considering plugging in, whether camping or when parked here at home, without EMS protection.

And to answer the question about home electronics - yes, I do now also use surge protection in the stick house, unfortunately AFTER a line surge took out our unprotected television set last year. :M

You are absolutely right Soundguy! After buying a 60 buck surge protector in my first year of my new TT, I read hundreds of reviews on the progressive 30 and 50 A electrical management systems, both portable and hard wired. The instances of low voltage or high voltage that would not be caught by a "surge protector" are huge! So I bought one this season, yes it was $259 on Amazon, but the testimonials from owners convinced me! Sure enough, on our 2nd campground in a NY state Park ( Cayuga Lake State Park, NY) Our new EMS shut down power 4-5 times a day for 5 days to our TT for OVERVOLTAGE which was exceeding 134 volts! I talked to the park Ranger who said, YES, they have had this problem for 2 years and he is aware of the cumulative damage it will do to electronics, AC and other appliances in a camper... said their NY state park engineers have not got around to fixing! He said very few campers own one of these EMS devices because of the cost are are unaware of the problem! Outrageous! The very next campground also in NY state, had our EMS shut down twice for LOW voltage ( under 108 Volts, which will also damage same appliances and electronics. So unless you have thousands saved up to replace these appliances and electronics after only a year or 2 of use, GET ONE OF THESE EMS units.. Progressive is the best with the ONLY lifetime warranty!

[doxiemom11]

Low voltage damages over time, not while it's happening. It's an accumulative thing. Circuit boards are expensive. We'd rather protect with an EMS. We do travel full-time so use campground electricity in many states. We have had our EMS cut power 4 or 5 times because of brown outs and a couple of times from power surges. It has also found open ground and reverse polarity a couple of times at the power source. We were then aware not to use the power until it was repaired by an electrician, or, move to a different site.

[SoundGuy]

wa8yxm wrote:
My TRC holds power off for 172 Seconds, Just 8 seconds shy of the recommended 3 minute minimum ...

Delay for current TRC EMS units, one example being Model 34830, is 128" ... delay for similar Progressive EMS units is 136", but in either case sufficient time for A/C compressor head pressure to bleed down to a safe level. 🙂

[wa8yxm]

Oh and there is more.. When power is restored to the RV park after a power fail, even if it's a 48 hour fail (Just had one) all the Air Conditioners that have not been turned off all try to start at once.. Voltages hit ye-old Roller Coaster ride.. It can be quite scary watching a volt meter (Analog please) or scope Even watching some lights.. But 3 minutes later.. All steady, calmed down, and no surges to bother me.

[wa8yxm]

$300 will not stop a lightening hit.. True but.

about 160 yards from where I'm parked, less than 100 yards from the park power distribution panel feeding my RV there was a direct strike.. Took out the Park's WI-FI routers and relays.. But .. Not one cent of damage ot my RV. Mutiple MOV Devices plus a TRC Surge Guard worked as designed.

Another RVer had a Progressive Industries PT-50C sacriface itself but ZERO damage to his RV when lighten struck mear feet from his RV.

But Lightening strikes are rare enough that "You are more likely to be struck by lightening" is used to mean "Don't worry about it"

I'll tell you what has happened SEVERAL times here in this RV park , and others

Short power fails, like 1 second or so In a short "blink" the Air Conditoner compressor, and any other compressors in your RV do not have time to properly bleed down, so they are trying to restart with a full head of pressure. Not a fun thing at all. This results in a "locked rotor" condition as they are not designed to start that way. They overheat, Damage is done, Motors eventually fail (Takes several "hits" to do that usually). And a NEW A/C is like a kilobuck.. My TRC holds power off for 172 Seconds, Just 8 seconds shy of the recommended 3 minute minimum, Plus the delay built into the A/C takes it over 3 minutes, resulting in a normal "Soft start" with balenced pressure on the compressor (Same as zero pressure) no locked rotor no damage.

I'd call 300 dollars to eliminate a 1,000 repair a good investment.

[bid_time]

Bumpyroad wrote:

bid_time wrote:
Never mind --> changed my mind. It's your money, you can spend it any way you want. Maybe one day you'll even get to laugh at me for being so stupid (but I wouldn't hold my breathe).

Signed:
"big time"

if/when it happens be sure to come back here and tell us about it.
bumpy

Bumpy - just wanted to let you know it's been a year and it didn't happen. I'm done for this year. I'll report back next year and let you know.

[Bumpyroad]

rockhillmanor wrote:

Still will NOT STOP a lighting HIT.. near or far...

You got that right! I am in the lightening capital of the world, Florida.
Everyone said to purchase and pay monthly for the in line surge protector from the power company to protect your appliances and electronics against lightening.

Long story short the power company states VERY clearly in their policy that their inline surge protector does NOT protect against lighting and will NOT pay you for anything that gets cooked from a strike on or anywhere near your home. Only if 'their' line in spikes.:R

I also think people need to learn what a 'joules' is too when buying home surge protectors for their home computers and their RV's.
Just because the package says its a surge protector doesn't mean it will do squat for electronics.

Some of these inexpensive ones and actually most of them sometimes have a joules protection of only 200! Say goodbye to your TV and laptop with that level of lack of protection! :B

what is the minimum joule level that you would recommend? I am not talking about protecting a $6,000 hi fi TV etc. just the normal stuff?
bumpy