RV Fuel Issues & Prices - Post 'Em Here!

[Dick_A]

All other fuel threads will be automatically deleted. 🙂

[stevenicoldeact]

Just a question:

How come the price of biodiesel (B100) has increased along with petroleum diesel?

[Skid_Row_Joe]

The Weekenders wrote:

eltejano1 wrote:
Willald:

Maybe the full campgrounds are the result of more "destination" oriented trips rather than traveling every day. If so, that's positive. A lot of fuel will be saved by simply going to a campground or state park and spend the vacation there.

I never did like that. I always enjoyed keeping on the move. But that sort of thing would be prohibitive now.

I think this does indeed have the potential of being the end of OUR world as we know it, Willald.

Wing Zealot:

Sorry to see you go, but we've said about as much as we can say here. I guess I'll hang it up to. I'm starting to repeat myself. I think our point of view - that something has to be done to cut that 20.7 million barrels/day consumption -is the right approach.

Everyone here, with the possible exception of Joe :-), will eventually realize that you were right. In fact, I think they realize it now but just can't face-up it.

We are witnessing the end of an era, a major historical transition on a par with the Industrial Revolution of the nineteenth century - it's just that everything moves at such a rapid pace today, with modern communications and all, that people don't have time to adapt. Social and tech changes that used to take decades now happen in mere years, maybe even months.

There was a time when a strong military power - England, Rome, Japan, USSR, simply took by force of arms the resources they needed. But raw imperialism is no longer acceptable in the modern world and we are going to have to make drastic lifestyle changes to cope with much less petroleum, as the europeans already have.

We can't, as you have said, expect a private corporation to act in the public interest. That's 180 degrees away from what capitalism is all about. But, since energy really is a "public utility' in many ways, since people can't do without it, I look for massive regulation of the oil industry, possibly even involving price controls and rationing, and even a possibility of eventual nationalization - which is already a reality in most of the world. In any case, with the nearly inevitable regulation, rv'ing has no future. It's going to be a dinosaur that will be cited for a century as an example of wasteful affluence - with about the same social status as smoking.

It is already true that when we buy recreational fuel at these prices we are driving-up prices and hurting everyone. The govt will address that - probably after the election. This will likely develop as the #1 issue in the fall campaign, and the sides will line up traditionally, with Obama pushing FDR style intervention and McCain insisting on leaving it up to free market forces. It should be interesting - perhaps the hottest campaign since 1932 - and most likely a Democrat landslide.

It's over, folks.

Jack

I have never heard so much "The sky is falling" as this post. Jeez you make me feel like just giving up and hiding under a rock. Jack, I would recommend listening to comedy such as Abott and Costello, Grouch Marx etc which I am sure will improve your outlook on life. JMO

Rick

I doubt all the disjointed bleating will result in him selling his truck, sounds like preaching telling everyone else to conserve. He's already stated he's collecting social security and has a job, and an RV. What more does he want, money doesn't seem to be making him happy? Gas goes up a couple bucks and it's the end of the world. Geeeeez.

[stevenicoldeact]

Sea Dog wrote:
I am older,72, than most here.
It is amusing to read those who say they cannot cut back.

When I see that you are from Canada, it makes me wonder how much our American (US based) complacency is on display to the rest of the world; it makes sense that our neighbors to the north would see it first, and being nice, and laid-back like you Canadians are, you don't jump on your milk crate and tell us how selfish, ignorant, and unloving we people who live in the states are. Not just toward others, but to ourselfs. I mean, come-on; in general, look at how fat and obese we are?

Certainly everyone can cut back, but instead of questioning "how" our way in the US is to question: "why?"

[nickthehunter]

AO_hitech wrote:
We aren't being taken advantage of. Nope, record profits of Big Oil aside, and our taxes help them make even more money! But, we aren't being taken advantage of, not at all...

Soaring oil prices lifted Chevron Corp.'s annual profit to $18.7 billion in 2007, the fourth consecutive year that the San Ramon company made record amounts of money.

Chevron, America's second-largest oil company, reported Friday that its annual profit jumped 9 percent from 2006, as crude oil prices reached their highest levels in 26 years.

Exxon Mobil, the country's largest oil company, reported on Friday that its 2007 profit hit $40.6 billion, a 3 percent increase from 2006, while sales passed $404 billion. No American business has ever scored a higher profit.

"The major oil companies' incredible profits, boosted by multibillion-dollar tax subsidies to the industry, are ultimately clobbering taxpayers," said Judy Dugan, research director for the Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights.

You are being taken advantage of. You are just are a little mis-informed about who is bending you over the barrel. But that's allright, in a few years and you'll see the light. Hope you can survive until then. Actually, I hope we all can survive until then. If not, won't be the first time an unsinkable ship hit an iceberg and sank.

[Sea_Dog]

I really dont` think that many can see past the cost to fuel their daily driver or RV.

What will happen when diesel reaches six bucks and the trucks shut down?
The guy across the street, an independant long haul trucker says that he is almost ready to shut down.

What will you eat when the beef is sitting in Chicago and the veggies are rotting in the fields in California?

This situation is much closer than many seem to believe.

[AO_hitech]

We aren't being taken advantage of. Nope, record profits of Big Oil aside, and our taxes help them make even more money! But, we aren't being taken advantage of, not at all...



Soaring oil prices lifted Chevron Corp.'s annual profit to $18.7 billion in 2007, the fourth consecutive year that the San Ramon company made record amounts of money.

Chevron, America's second-largest oil company, reported Friday that its annual profit jumped 9 percent from 2006, as crude oil prices reached their highest levels in 26 years.

Exxon Mobil, the country's largest oil company, reported on Friday that its 2007 profit hit $40.6 billion, a 3 percent increase from 2006, while sales passed $404 billion. No American business has ever scored a higher profit.

"The major oil companies' incredible profits, boosted by multibillion-dollar tax subsidies to the industry, are ultimately clobbering taxpayers," said Judy Dugan, research director for the Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights.

[The_Weekenders]

stevenicol wrote:
According to NBC News, the United States Military is the largest petrolium user on the planet. Our two top elected officials are career oil men. Let's see, in 2000 the BBL price was $29.

...when I open my eyes, I see?

Right, higher fuel prices.

:R

[stevenicoldeact]

According to NBC News, the United States Military is the largest petrolium user on the planet. Our two top elected officials are career oil men. Let's see, in 2000 the BBL price was $29.

...when I open my eyes, I see?

Right, higher fuel prices.

[willald]

Jack, you are being extremely pessimistic here. Listen at you tell it, we should all basically just kill ourselves now and get it over with, LOL. Sorry, I refuse to be that way. Life's too short.

Maybe the full campgrounds are the result of more "destination" oriented trips rather than traveling every day. If so, that's positive. A lot of fuel will be saved by simply going to a campground or state park and spend the vacation there.

Ahhh, good point, I hadnt thought of it that way. Guess we may have to start making our reservations even earlier than we have.

I never did like that. I always enjoyed keeping on the move. But that sort of thing would be prohibitive now.

I think this does indeed have the potential of being the end of OUR world as we know it, Willald.

Speak for yourself! We *are* destination campers basically, always have been, don't see that ever changing. Especially with gas prices going the way they are.

I will agree with you overall, that part of the solution to this is going to be that ALL of us are going to have to find ways to be more efficient with our resources, and not so wasteful. I do think this country in general, has been 'spoiled' for many years by having fuel waaaay too cheap. Thats coming to an end, and will force all of us to find ways to use less fuel.

Still, I do NOT see this as the end of RVing altogether as your doomsday prophecy suggests. Europeans have lived with much higher fuel prices for years and years, and they still have RVs, and enjoy them. They just do so with much smaller RVs, and do so using considerably less fuel. That may be what happens over here as well. And, we'll just have to find ways to 'do more with less' in general. I can think of many, MANY ways we can trim our budget (even more than we have), to compensate for these things.

Good example: We just dumped our cell phone plan with Alltel, that was costing us $70 a month. Got Tracfones instead. We use our cell phones sooo little, a Tracfone works just as good for our use, and costs us overall less than $10 a month. that right there, saves over $700 a year! That'll buy enough fuel for several camping trips, right there. :B

Not the end of the world, just another case of having to adapt to the changes and finding ways to do more with less. Our grandparents had to such in their time, now we're having to as well.

Will

[j_l_shand]

We are really naive if we don't believe that significant "non" economic factors have paid a part in this crazy oil price run-up.

1. yes there is a finite supply of the stuff but we are not there yet

2. yes, china and India are using significantly more oil but they are still relatively small parts of the puzzle (USA 20.7 million barrels Chine 3.7)

3. Yes there is vast collusion to price fix among the big oil companies as well movement of supply (particularly diesel) to non US markets.
A. the sophistication of computerized management tools has reached very step of the process including reporting.can be mangaged and everything manipulated.

4. Big business is far more sophisticated in its machinery to avoid regulation than at any time in this nations history.
A . this sophistication most certainly includes market manipulation , price collusion and tax avoidance.

5. Wall Street type commodity speculation is rampant with no control and no understanding outside the operators

6. The books are being cooked by public companies with the aide of their high priced Big 4 Accountants to a degree of sophistication only the power of computing could provide.
A. remember ENRON?
B. the relatively modest 8-10 % percent profits of the Big Oil companies are a tribute to the power of the computer age . A huge amount of profit is hidden "off the books" thru the use of creative accounting. Again see ENRON

7. As noted in his current book "Bad Money' Kevin Phillips
( The Emerging Republican Majority)there has been a dramatic flip flop
in the American way of doing businees with the financial sector and all its implications {CDO"S , Off Balance Sheet entities etc} now the largest percentage of GDP, over 20% with a shrinking manufacturing share of less tha 10% of GDP.
A. the financial sector has invented tools that can confuse the most sophisticated investor, And these tools are utilized by the ENRONS of this world to fool investors, shareholders and GOVERNMENT REgULATORY AUTHORITIES.

8.. Lobbying is the fastest growing occupation for ex congresspeople in the nations capital. And the most powerful belong to the oil industry .

In short our economy has turned to little comprehended and largely unregulated money players who have the tools and often the inclination to drive markets up and down at a whim. The equilibrium of unrestrained capitalism and government necessitated regulation has swung way over to big business , the rich are getting richer and the rest of the economy is at their mercy

THe solutions are very difficult

1. short term severe cutback in use of oil and gas (sure!!!
2. significant strengthening of government regulation extending to big business and Wall Street with a special emphasis on regulation of the new financial "tools' referred to earlier {where is old Joe Kennedy when his country needs him?
3. Laws to inhibit our lawmakers from switching to lobbying
4. term limits to preclude service from being so financially rewarding
5 a limited term serving congress more concerned about this country than its own pocketbooks and which will ENACT A LONG TERM ENERGY POLICY FOR THE USA

P.S. I neglected to add that at approximately 4% of the worlds population, our use of approx 25%% of its energy can't continue indefinitly.

[The_Weekenders]

eltejano1 wrote:
Willald:

Maybe the full campgrounds are the result of more "destination" oriented trips rather than traveling every day. If so, that's positive. A lot of fuel will be saved by simply going to a campground or state park and spend the vacation there.

I never did like that. I always enjoyed keeping on the move. But that sort of thing would be prohibitive now.

I think this does indeed have the potential of being the end of OUR world as we know it, Willald.

Wing Zealot:

Sorry to see you go, but we've said about as much as we can say here. I guess I'll hang it up to. I'm starting to repeat myself. I think our point of view - that something has to be done to cut that 20.7 million barrels/day consumption -is the right approach.

Everyone here, with the possible exception of Joe :-), will eventually realize that you were right. In fact, I think they realize it now but just can't face-up it.

We are witnessing the end of an era, a major historical transition on a par with the Industrial Revolution of the nineteenth century - it's just that everything moves at such a rapid pace today, with modern communications and all, that people don't have time to adapt. Social and tech changes that used to take decades now happen in mere years, maybe even months.

There was a time when a strong military power - England, Rome, Japan, USSR, simply took by force of arms the resources they needed. But raw imperialism is no longer acceptable in the modern world and we are going to have to make drastic lifestyle changes to cope with much less petroleum, as the europeans already have.

We can't, as you have said, expect a private corporation to act in the public interest. That's 180 degrees away from what capitalism is all about. But, since energy really is a "public utility' in many ways, since people can't do without it, I look for massive regulation of the oil industry, possibly even involving price controls and rationing, and even a possibility of eventual nationalization - which is already a reality in most of the world. In any case, with the nearly inevitable regulation, rv'ing has no future. It's going to be a dinosaur that will be cited for a century as an example of wasteful affluence - with about the same social status as smoking.

It is already true that when we buy recreational fuel at these prices we are driving-up prices and hurting everyone. The govt will address that - probably after the election. This will likely develop as the #1 issue in the fall campaign, and the sides will line up traditionally, with Obama pushing FDR style intervention and McCain insisting on leaving it up to free market forces. It should be interesting - perhaps the hottest campaign since 1932 - and most likely a Democrat landslide.

It's over, folks.

Jack

I have never heard so much "The sky is falling" as this post. Jeez you make me feel like just giving up and hiding under a rock. Jack, I would recommend listening to comedy such as Abott and Costello, Grouch Marx etc which I am sure will improve your outlook on life. JMO

Rick

[nickthehunter]

TroyD wrote:

wing_zealot wrote:
Speculation - lots of speculation but very little hard evidence. Prices are high because Big Oil companies are closing refineries to lower the supply and drive up demand Prices are high because Oil Speculators are jacking up the price. Prices are high because Bush is in office and he is an oil man. WE got enough oil for the next 60 years, its ________ fault. yadda yadda yadda.

Folks, in the United States alone we burn through 20.7 Million barrels of oil each and every day. You have any concept on how huge a pile that many barrels of oil is? Every day - being pumped out of the earth. And all that oil for just one little corner of the world? Now add in China, Canada, Japan, etc. etc. etc. How long do you think we can sustain that thirst? And you speculate about what is driving up the price of oil. It's hard to put the blame squarely on our own shoulders, it's easier just to blame someone else. Seems pretty clear to me. But hey, what do I know.

Yes, I do know how big that is, its a cube of oil about 475 feet square. A little more than 2 square acres.

Do you know how small 2 square acres is when you compare it with the enormity of the entire earth???

Running out of oil my foot.

Imagine, the entire USA uses a pool of oil every YEAR only 1.25 square miles by about 5 stories tall.

You would have to use the entire continent of the unites states to grow enough corn or soybeans and then you wouldnt have anywhere to grow food if you wanted to replace petroleum oil with biofuels.

You forgot to mention that that pile of oil would be 1,332 feet high on that two acres. Every day, two acres, 1,332 feet high. And your "about" five stories high, really works out to be 1,520 feet high per square mile every year. How does that look to you now?

Now I understand you used terms that kind of muddied the waters a bit shall we say (a cube on two square acres, and 1.25 sq miles, etc). And you can argue that point. But rather than mud, lets just spell it out in plain english, with units that everyone can understand, like two acres and a square mile.

That is also, if a barrel of oil is 42 gallons. Actually I'm not sure, it could be 55 gallons and I have even heard oil is 80 gallons of oil per barrel so you can see I may be off by as much as a factor of "about" 2, which would make that five stories "about" 3,000 feet high per sq mile.

[Sea_Dog]

You know, I was thinking after my post above.
Really we can easily cut back in ways that we do not even realize where we are spending.

For instance, last night we went as we often do, to the Legion fish fry.
Only nine bucks each, I always drop the change from a twenty into the tip jar.
There is twenty bucks that we do not need to spend.
I do not believe that my parents ate in a restaurant more than a dozen times during their lives.

We are going today to buy shrubs for the foundation.
Probably one or two hundred bucks.
When I was a kid, any "landscaping" consisted of trees dug out of the woods.

Yes, there are many ways we can cut back.
Soon, when push comes to shove, we will all learn how.

[eltejano1]

Willald:

Maybe the full campgrounds are the result of more "destination" oriented trips rather than traveling every day. If so, that's positive. A lot of fuel will be saved by simply going to a campground or state park and spend the vacation there.

I never did like that. I always enjoyed keeping on the move. But that sort of thing would be prohibitive now.

I think this does indeed have the potential of being the end of OUR world as we know it, Willald.

Wing Zealot:

Sorry to see you go, but we've said about as much as we can say here. I guess I'll hang it up to. I'm starting to repeat myself. I think our point of view - that something has to be done to cut that 20.7 million barrels/day consumption -is the right approach.

Everyone here, with the possible exception of Joe :-), will eventually realize that you were right. In fact, I think they realize it now but just can't face-up it.

We are witnessing the end of an era, a major historical transition on a par with the Industrial Revolution of the nineteenth century - it's just that everything moves at such a rapid pace today, with modern communications and all, that people don't have time to adapt. Social and tech changes that used to take decades now happen in mere years, maybe even months.

There was a time when a strong military power - England, Rome, Japan, USSR, simply took by force of arms the resources they needed. But raw imperialism is no longer acceptable in the modern world and we are going to have to make drastic lifestyle changes to cope with much less petroleum, as the europeans already have.

We can't, as you have said, expect a private corporation to act in the public interest. That's 180 degrees away from what capitalism is all about. But, since energy really is a "public utility' in many ways, since people can't do without it, I look for massive regulation of the oil industry, possibly even involving price controls and rationing, and even a possibility of eventual nationalization - which is already a reality in most of the world. In any case, with the nearly inevitable regulation, rv'ing has no future. It's going to be a dinosaur that will be cited for a century as an example of wasteful affluence - with about the same social status as smoking.

It is already true that when we buy recreational fuel at these prices we are driving-up prices and hurting everyone. The govt will address that - probably after the election. This will likely develop as the #1 issue in the fall campaign, and the sides will line up traditionally, with Obama pushing FDR style intervention and McCain insisting on leaving it up to free market forces. It should be interesting - perhaps the hottest campaign since 1932 - and most likely a Democrat landslide.

It's over, folks.

Jack

[Sea_Dog]

Did anyone see T Boone Pickins on Glenn Beck last night?

He is investing heavily in wind farms, says the days of cheap and easy oil are past.
When asked if prices at the pump would come down. he just laughed and said that six dollar gas is not far away.

I truly believe that our economy is going to be much different in five years.
I would hate to have money in anything that requires discretionary spending.

I am not overly concerned for myself, I think that we could easily cut back by thirty percent and to fifty percent of our spending with a little effort.

For instance, we lease a lot year around in Florida, even tho we only use it for three months.
Cost, four thousand dollars.
That will buy around a thousand gallons of gas which is more than we presently burn in our non RV vehicles per year.

Altho this might be an extreme case, we all waste thousands of dollars each year on purchases that our parents and grandparents never dreamed of.