Surge Proector on Holiday Rambler

[Traveler2019]

We just traded a Class C motorhome for Class A Holiday Rambler Vacationer. With the Class C we always used a Surge Protector when hooking up in campgrounds. The sales person told us we did not need a surge protector with the Holiday Rambler as it is built in, but we would feel better if someone could confirm that. We have much to learn about the Class A. We are considering buying a surge protector just to be safe. THANKS for any help.

[CharlesinGA]

pianotuna wrote:
myredracer,

I'm sure you know plug in devices are exempt. That means all RV's are exempt from code, too.

Not true in the US, where the NEC, article 551 DOES apply to the RV itself.

"551.1 Scope. The provisions of this article cover the electrical conductors and equipment other than low-voltage and automotive vehicle circuits or extensions thereof, installed within or on recreational vehicles, the conductors that connect recreational vehicles to a supply of electricity, and the installation of equipment and devices related to electrical installations within a recreational vehicle park."

I cannot find in this article, any mention of "continuous load" however the def of this in Article 100 is "Continuous Load. A load where the maximum current is expected to continue for 3 hours or more." and is a very good rule of thumb. Electric heating, either air or water, is defined in other articles as Continuous. A continuous load must be limited to 80% of circuit capacity.

Charles

[pianotuna]

myredracer,

I'm sure you know plug in devices are exempt. That means all RV's are exempt from code, too.

I don't feel it is good practise to drive the shore power so hard which is why I chose to get a hybrid inverter/charger that allows me to draw from the battery bank, and to limit the shore power cord to 80%. So I get to have my cake, and eat it too!

Since I started limiting to 80%, I've not had a single plug failure.

I do know that one local campground has had many problems with both antiquated and modern pedestals. I've measured 100 volts there in the summer time. It makes my autoformer very shiny to me! lol

[myredracer]

CA Traveler wrote:
80% is a NEC recommendation for sustained loads.

Can you please provide a link to that from the NEC. The only 80% that I know out of the code is for fixed wiring systems in buildings, not plug-in loads.

[pianotuna]

My comfort zone is no lower than 107 volts. I do limit my shore power connection to 80% of what is available except on a 50 supply--where I limit it to the 30 amps my RV is wired for.

I do use an autoformer in both summer and winter, if the voltage under load is low.

[CA_Traveler]

myredracer wrote:

CA Traveler wrote:
Good points and very few know that the recommended sustained maximum load is 80% or 24A for 30A pedestal and 16A for 20A pedestal.

Where do you get that info. from? A pedestal and shore power cord should be able to carry a full 30 amps continuously forever by code and ULC/CSA. But the problem in the real world of RV-ing is that pedestals don't get maintained and most RV-ers don't typically keep their plug blades clean in order to make a good contact and for that reason it's good practice to keep your loads down.

80% is a NEC recommendation for sustained loads.

I suspect exceeding 24A on a 30A circuit is a significant factor in overheated pedestal and cord plugs.

[westom]

Other factors also contribute to poor connection defects. A pedestal receptacle is only good for so many 'makes and breaks'. It wears out with too many connections. And most never notice.

A bad connection is indicated by voltage variations. One can constantly watch a volt meter. Or a better alternative is to simply power an incandescent bulb. If that bulb changes intensity (dims or brightens), then one gets concerned enough to use a meter or some other tool to identify what appears to be a fault.

An incandescent bulb is a superb diagnostic tool for some of those anomalies called a surge. It will not detect other anomalies called a surge. Each different type of surge must be defined before considering (asking for) a solution.

Protectors such as from Progressive address the most common CG anomalies. Which are completely different from other anomalies (also called surges) that exist in homes.

[myredracer]

CA Traveler wrote:
Good points and very few know that the recommended sustained maximum load is 80% or 24A for 30A pedestal and 16A for 20A pedestal.

Where do you get that info. from? A pedestal and shore power cord should be able to carry a full 30 amps continuously forever by code and ULC/CSA. But the problem in the real world of RV-ing is that pedestals don't get maintained and most RV-ers don't typically keep their plug blades clean in order to make a good contact and for that reason it's good practice to keep your loads down.

[Traveler2019]

THANKS everyone for your responses on the surge protector! Our rig is a 2018 Holiday Rambler Vacationer. As mentioned when we purchased mh, we mentioned to the dealer we would be purchasing a surge protector (yes, we've heard horror stories of microwaves, refrigerators, etc getting wiped out from power surges) and was told we did not need to. We were told this motorhome was set up to control the amps coming into the mh. He pointed out a RV Power monitor for ATS (fault screen navigation) and said that would handle any surges. Again, thanks for replies. We have much to learn with the Class A. Happy New Year!

[CA_Traveler]

pianotuna wrote:
May I ask what you believe is too low a voltage to operate the roof air conditioner?

wrgrs50s wrote:
Like downtheroad, I've been camping all over since 2005 without a surge protector and yet to have a problem. I have a voltage indicator to watch for low or high voltage and I use my appliances wisely not to overload the 30 amp system.

That is in the eyes of the beholder and as you and I know that is not on the radar of most RVers.

Personally I prefer the US utility standard at the AC terminals - so 108-132V. But I have allowed it to remain below 108V.

One of the problems is that the AC mfg's don't publish this information that I've been able to find. Instead they just publish some nominal voltage.

I haven't posted the following in a long time.

1. AC's may/may not have reduced life down to 102 or 104V. I suspect the mfgs test at lower voltage and determine that the life exceeds the warranty so don't rock the boat with unnecessary information.

2. Many posters state that lower AC voltage will increase the amps drawn. This is consistent with known motor theory that reduced voltage requires more amps for a given horsepower. But who says and has tested that a RV AC maintains the same HP with reduced voltage?

Years ago I and another poster tested our RV ACs and found that amps reduced with reduced voltage. Our results were posted on this board. Maybe my current newer ACs have changed in that regard.

[CA_Traveler]

wrgrs50s wrote:
Like downtheroad, I've been camping all over since 2005 without a surge protector and yet to have a problem. I have a voltage indicator to watch for low or high voltage and I use my appliances wisely not to overload the 30 amp system. I've seen so many posts of melted 30 amp plugs and people stating that a surge protector would have prevented that, when the reality is that the outlet was worn and/or the owner of the RV was using the HW Heater, Fridge, AC, and other items peaking the amperage use and overheating the plug. I've even seen one post where a surge protector plug had melted at the outlet from overheating. The better surge and electrical management systems are good insurance but it's really rare that they are actually needed.

Good points and very few know that the recommended sustained maximum load is 80% or 24A for 30A pedestal and 16A for 20A pedestal. And most CG maintenance is marginal at best.

And none of these devices will protect against circuit over current which is understandable since that is what the CB does.

[myredracer]

The need will depend partly on what types of CGs you use. If you stay in older CGs, you def. want an EMS. We use mostly Thousand Trails CGs which are older and in the 5 seasons we've had a PI EMS in our current TT (30 amps), have seen reversed polarity, open neutral, open ground and most often, low voltage. I wouldn't dream of not using an EMS. Ours is hard-wired and is always there to protect us automatically when needed.

Low voltage in CGs is very common during the summer with everyone running AC units at the same time. It can be worse in older CGs too. An autoformer can be very helpful and keep you going when you'd otherwise have to be shut down. We use ours several times a season or more. Many people don't release the damage they are allowing to happen as a result of low voltage. Just because your AC is running under low voltage doesn't mean it's okay. Damage from low voltage is cumulative and lead to premature (and costly) failure of an AC unit. Checking voltage with a voltmeter when you arrive doesn't necessarily mean it will be okay the whole time you're there.

You want an EMS like Progressive Industries or a Surge Guard (which is much more than a surge protector) and not a basic surge protector only.

[pianotuna]

May I ask what you believe is too low a voltage to operate the roof air conditioner?

wrgrs50s wrote:
Like downtheroad, I've been camping all over since 2005 without a surge protector and yet to have a problem. I have a voltage indicator to watch for low or high voltage and I use my appliances wisely not to overload the 30 amp system.

[wrgrs50s]

Like downtheroad, I've been camping all over since 2005 without a surge protector and yet to have a problem. I have a voltage indicator to watch for low or high voltage and I use my appliances wisely not to overload the 30 amp system. I've seen so many posts of melted 30 amp plugs and people stating that a surge protector would have prevented that, when the reality is that the outlet was worn and/or the owner of the RV was using the HW Heater, Fridge, AC, and other items peaking the amperage use and overheating the plug. I've even seen one post where a surge protector plug had melted at the outlet from overheating. The better surge and electrical management systems are good insurance but it's really rare that they are actually needed.

[ScottG]

downtheroad wrote:
Welcome to the Forum....your first post.

I one of those who are waiting for a catastrophic surge to fry my components....and when it happens I guess I'll have to eat a plate full of crow.

5 trailers and 35 years of RVing (2 coast to coast 4 month loops) and such and have never had a surge protector. 90%+ of our camping are in electrical sites.
The only thing I have ever done is check the pedestal for reverse polarity and have yet to even encounter this.
Now, let the surge protector debate begin again.

(My fork is ready for that plate of crow)

Same here. Never needed it in nearly 30 years of RVing.
However, our new 50A rig is a game changer to me. It's way to easy to get 240V sent thorughout the 120V system.
If I still had a 30A RV I wouldn't worry about protection.