Thinking about a 5er (can I do it?)

[ky-auctioneer]

I have owned 3 travel trailers over the years and have towed them many thousands of miles. Never had any issues. We are thinking of moving up to a fifth wheel. I have never towed a 5er and I wanted to run the numbers by the experts and see what you think.

TV: 2015 Chevy Siverado 2500, double cab, long box. 6.0L gas with 4.1 rear.

The fifth wheel we are looking at is a Heartland Sundance. It comes in at 10,200 pounds and has a hitch weight of 2270 lbs.

GTG?

[Cummins12V98]

ky-auctioneer wrote:
OP here again. My math is much different than yours.

Went with the Sundance after weighing truck. Here are my real numbers so far.

GAWR Rear 6200 per sticker. Scaled drive axle with 5er 5220.

GCWR per sticker 20,500. Actual gross weight with 5er 17,520 per CAT scale.

"stuff" from our last TT weighed about 750 lbs. We don't carry much water. Even if I carry double the stuff (not likely) I would add about 300 to rear, still well under the rating. Gross would also be well under safe limits.

Tires are load range E (10 ply) at 80 PSI.

What did I miss?

Should be good, just keep an eye on your rear tire weight as time goes by. It gets heavy fast!

[ky-auctioneer]

OP here again. My math is much different than yours.

Went with the Sundance after weighing truck. Here are my real numbers so far.

GAWR Rear 6200 per sticker. Scaled drive axle with 5er 5220.

GCWR per sticker 20,500. Actual gross weight with 5er 17,520 per CAT scale.

"stuff" from our last TT weighed about 750 lbs. We don't carry much water. Even if I carry double the stuff (not likely) I would add about 300 to rear, still well under the rating. Gross would also be well under safe limits.

Tires are load range E (10 ply) at 80 PSI.

What did I miss?

[Cummins12V98]

Subtract rear axle weight from the max carrying capacity of your rear tires. That answer will be the MAX you can place on the hitch. Very LITTLE weight transfers to the front axle as in less than 100# on a RV that size.

[Cummins12V98]

Dave H M wrote:
Don't forget the rear tire weight capability. something I did not pay enough attention to when I went with an F 250 with 17" wheels.

That's where most people get in trouble!

[mkirsch]

If you're working from GVWR, figure ZERO margin. Your margin is built into the rear GAWR, which is 6084lbs. You've basically got another 300lbs of capacity on the rear axle above and beyond your GVWR.

With 2600lbs of pin/hitch weight in the bed, you will basically have 300lbs of reserve capacity in the rear axle of the truck for that "rainy day." If your pin/hitch weight is anything less than 2600lbs, so much the better.

Knock another ~250lbs off for the hitch, and that leaves you with 2350lbs for pin weight. Your plan B trailer will be a great match!

[MFL]

If you have 2,600 lbs available for pin, that would be roughly figuring a FW with GVWR of 13,000 lbs.

Pin weight can run over 20%, on some models, so to be safe, it would be best to look at FWs with a 12,000 GVWR, or 12,500, if you find a FW that is just the right one.

Jerry

[ky-auctioneer]

donn0128 wrote:
14K fiver translates into 3000 pounds of pin weight! Do you honestly believe once you have the truck loaded with fuel, hitch, family and family stuff you still have 3000 pounds of capacity before you exceed the trucks GVWR rating? To know, load everything you normally have on board for a trip and hit the scales. Subtract scaled weight plus 250 pounds for a hitch from the trucks GVWR. That will be your real honest load carrying capacity, read that as pin weight. Pin weight roughly equals 20% of the trailers total weight. Since you really have no idea at this time a trailers weight, use a trailers GVWR for all your calculations. Better safe than sorry!

OP here. I loaded up the wife, dog, Baby Q, toolbox, fifth wheel hitch, full tank of gas and other misc stuff. Took the truck to CAT scale. Came in at 6900. 3760/3140 front/rear. 9500 GVWR minus 6900 equals 2600 available for pin weight. What kind of margin should I figure?

Weights seemed low. Fully loaded with all of the above it came in within 30 lbs of the advertised curb weight. I re-weighed today without DW and came in 100 lbs less at 6800. Makes sense as DW weighs 100 lbs soaking wet. (don't tell her I told you)

[Dave_H_M]

Don't forget the rear tire weight capability. something I did not pay enough attention to when I went with an F 250 with 17" wheels.

[JIMNLIN]

ky-auctioneer wrote:
I appreciate the responses.

Well, it looks like plan B may work.

FR Heritage Glen. Dry weight about 9k. GVWR 11,700. Hitch 1625.

Better?

For the 6.0 smallblock gasser this weight will make for a better overall towing experience than a 14400 lb trailer.....especially in high headwinds and in the hills.

This truck has around 3200-3300 lbs of payload capacity so it will handle the 11700 lb trailer pin weight and other stuff in the truck just fine.

[Dog_Trainer]

Artum Snowbird wrote:
The numbers say you can fifth wheel up over 14,000 pounds, so you can really do it if you so choose.

Certainly for me, the one eye-popping realization with my F350 diesel towing only 9000 pounds was going down steep downhill. No way could I rely on my brakes to slow me, so my only option was engine brakes. What a wonderful invention it would be if you had steering wheel fifth wheel brake control, as taking one hand off the wheel to put on some trailer brakes was just not possible.

I would consider it doable, but I think I would invest in fifth wheel disc brakes for sure.

Comparing the Diesel braking by engine and transmission alone to a gas motor is not an apples to apples comparison. The Gas motor and the back pressure will do a better job of braking than a diesel without an engine brake.
Now in answering the question you posed ( OP ) I think your 6.0 will struggle with that much weight and be muck less comfortable than pulling your TT at least in any mountain type driving.

[rhagfo]

MFL wrote:

ky-auctioneer wrote:
I appreciate the responses.

Well, it looks like plan B may work.

FR Heritage Glen. Dry weight about 9k. GVWR 11,700. Hitch 1625.

Better?

IMO, that would be a great fit! You may end up with 2,000#s pin, plus hitch, but that 2015 GM should handle it.

You will much appreciate the FW towing experience, compared to the TT you have been towing.

Jerry

X2 Yes better.

[azrving]

You also wont have greasy bars laying around or hit yer shins when you dont stow the ball mount. 🙂 You'll like the FW

[MFL]

ky-auctioneer wrote:
I appreciate the responses.

Well, it looks like plan B may work.

FR Heritage Glen. Dry weight about 9k. GVWR 11,700. Hitch 1625.

Better?

IMO, that would be a great fit! You may end up with 2,000#s pin, plus hitch, but that 2015 GM should handle it.

You will much appreciate the FW towing experience, compared to the TT you have been towing.

Jerry

[ky-auctioneer]

I appreciate the responses.

Well, it looks like plan B may work.

FR Heritage Glen. Dry weight about 9k. GVWR 11,700. Hitch 1625.

Better?