Tongue weight in Europe is around 7%

[rvtrailerpuller]

I know I am going to get some super experienced folks in the U.S. criticizing tongue/hitch weights being less than 10%, but let's discuss this.
It seems the approach in the U.K. and Europe is to attempt to design and load a trailer such that the majority of the weight is just forward of the axle. Far less concern on the Eastern side of the Atlantic is given to a tongue weight over 7%. In the U.K. a tongue weight of 4% is the legal minimum and the goal is to be in the range of 5% to 7% of loaded trailer weight. Trailer speed limits over there are 60mph maximum and there is less emphasis on weight distribution hitches. The main concern is to not load up a trailer with a concentration of weight in the far front and the far back just to accomplish some goal of a specific target tongue weight. They are more concerned with "yaw inertia" that a trailer with both a heavy front and rear would have and relatively low weight in the center over the axle. The goal, again, is to concentrate the load just as close to the axle as possible and just forward of it such that the tongue weight ends up in the 5% to 7% range.
I tow a really big trailer with a really big diesel truck with a Hensley hitch.
Perhaps this European and English style of trailer weight balancing design accounts for the mysteriously fantastically stable trailer and the mysteriously horrible towing trailer surprises that occur in the experience of some of us who have towed a large variety of trailers here in the U.S. It may be more than just a huge tongue weight that keeps a trailer stable and free from sway.
The conceptual difference is that of holding heavy and equal objects in each hand at arms length and swing your body around, and then try to stop it. Then do the same holding the weights to the chest. You can easily stop yourself from the inertia of the spin when the weights are not concentrated toward the ends of your trailer, but rather toward the center near your chest (trailer axle).

[RobertRyan]

BenK wrote:
#1 guess is that the regulatory agencies are different and have different (from
slightly different to way different) specifications than ours over 'here'

#2 'They' are not as legatious as we are over 'here'

#3 'They' have a different road system than over 'here'...even though the best
asphalt process over 'here' is from Germany (ground up rubber tires embedded
into the asphalt)

#4 all of my European buddies always comment: "why are you American's always in
such a hurry? " They say they don't drive as fast on holiday hauling/towing
than they see over 'here'...sure some have super cars capable of +200MPH and
do so over 'there'

Answer to 1. Yes tbey are different.
Answer to 2. As Legatious and maybe more so than the US.
Answer to 3 Varies from Country to Country. Yes Freeways and Motorroads are a lot smoother than you get in the US.
Answer to 4. There is supposed to be a 60mph general limit in Europe. Do not be surprised to see someone going past from 70-85mph towing a Caravan

[RobertRyan]

The Award Caravans started as an English company that started in England and moved to Canada and "North Americanized" the design I.e. by adding slideouts.

[rvtrailerpuller]

I found the website for Award trailers and I read their explanation of "Towability". I must say I'm impressed. This is what I've been talking about concerning keeping the heaviest load near the axles.
http://www.awardrv.com/products_overview.htm
I hope you keep your trailer for a very long time.

[rvtrailerpuller]

Thanks for the floor plan diagram and the link to your pictures. Your trailer looks to be in MUCH better condition than my 2005 Jayco.

My black tank is far back, my gray tank is just behind the axles, my water tank is well forward of the axles (there was space to make it closer, but alas it is quite far forward) and I have two large propane tanks on the tongue, and two heavy 6-volt batteries on the tongue. Overall, my trailer is balanced reasonably well, but more like weightlifter's barbells - heavy rear balanced with a heavier front.

[pasusan]

Ron Gratz wrote:

rvtrailerpuller wrote:
On another note, I mentioned how nice it could be to stow a spare tire under the trailer rather than on the rear bumper. I did a little research and found there is an American made product from Bal, the Hide-a-Spare. Great product! It can mount any trailer spare tire under any travel trailer.
BAL Hide-A-Spare,
http://norcoind.com/bal/products/consumer/specialty_products/hide-a-spare.shtml

I had a system nearly identical to the BAL Hide-A-Spare located just behind the rear axle on my 1994 Award.

Ron

We love our European designed Award and hope to keep it going for many years to come. Everything about it seems to have been designed intelligently. Our trailer is 23' weighs 4000 lbs with a 300 lb tongue weight (that's 7.5%). Most of the weight is over the axles, also the FW tank is between, the grey water tank is just in front, and the BW tank is just behind. And we have that wonderful spare tire carrier under the trailer. Here is the floorplan:


Just for information the Award does have the RVIA seal on it and there are many that are still traveling all over the US and Canada (the company stopped production in 2005).

[Ron_Gratz]

rvtrailerpuller wrote:
On another note, I mentioned how nice it could be to stow a spare tire under the trailer rather than on the rear bumper. I did a little research and found there is an American made product from Bal, the Hide-a-Spare. Great product! It can mount any trailer spare tire under any travel trailer.
BAL Hide-A-Spare,
http://norcoind.com/bal/products/consumer/specialty_products/hide-a-spare.shtml

I had a system nearly identical to the BAL Hide-A-Spare located just behind the rear axle on my 1994 Award.

Ron

[rvtrailerpuller]

BenK,
Thanks for your input about "Over Here" vs. "Over There".
You may have mentioned this yourself, but one should consider what would happen if it was found that the trailer owner was at fault in accident simply because of exceeding ratings.
I, for one, would never tow anything in any way exceeding either tow vehicle, hitch, or trailer ratings.

On another note, I mentioned how nice it could be to stow a spare tire under the trailer rather than on the rear bumper. I did a little research and found there is an American made product from Bal, the Hide-a-Spare. Great product! It can mount any trailer spare tire under any travel trailer.
BAL Hide-A-Spare,
http://norcoind.com/bal/products/consumer/specialty_products/hide-a-spare.shtml

[BenK]

If you read as long as I have here (+10 years) you will occasionally read someone
comparing 'our' TV ratings and trailer tongue vs over 'there'

Then they will justify using 'their' numbers as they can not see any difference
between the TV here vs over there.

Further justify their thinking saying the same OEM, but over here's management
have decided to change the ratings or numbers to screw their customers over
'here' for more money or some such

The most often is the Subaru, IIRC, and several thousand pounds more MTWR over
'there' than over 'here'

True or not, I say first decide if you believe in your OEM's ratings or not.

If not, then do whatever you wish, but know that 'your' OEM might not honor
any warranty issues

If yes, then learn how that system works and follow it

As to why they are different...can only make an educated guess from my background
running product design teams and their localization issues

#1 guess is that the regulatory agencies are different and have different (from
slightly different to way different) specifications than ours over 'here'

#2 'They' are not as legatious as we are over 'here'

#3 'They' have a different road system than over 'here'...even though the best
asphalt process over 'here' is from Germany (ground up rubber tires embedded
into the asphalt)

#4 all of my European buddies always comment: "why are you American's always in
such a hurry? " They say they don't drive as fast on holiday hauling/towing
than they see over 'here'...sure some have super cars capable of +200MPH and
do so over 'there'

Until we have the actual specifications of both to compare side by side...we will
always be guessing what the heck...

[Bedlam]

We used to tow a pop up with a Bronco II. Although we never had sway issues it would porpoise on rough road since the pop up was hitched to a tall bumper ball mount. It also had the spare on the rear of popup and less than 100 lbs tongue weight for its 1250 lb actual weight.

[rvtrailerpuller]

I once had a trailer that in theory could have been a great match for a Chevrolet Tahoe of the 2003-2004 era. The Tahoe was a horrible tow vehicle and the trailer was, despite its apparent long lines in front of the twin axles, too light in the front. Granted, this gives credence to the notion that a trailer should be front heavy, but this thing was horribibble. I mean, horribbibbibble! It was a poorly engineered trailer from a weight distribution standpoint. It had a very heavy rear end despite the very large distance in front of the axles to the coupler and depended heavily upon the RV owner to load it heavily at the tongue with extra propane tanks to achieve good balance. This weight distribution balance should have designed in from the start from the axles forward and rear.
By appearance it looked front heavy and front long in front of the axles, but by the scale it was tongue light even with a full tank of water. Of course, as you might have guessed, the spare tire was hung off the rear bumper.

[rvtrailerpuller]

That horrible tow vehicle/trailer combination I alluded to involved a Chevy Tahoe circa 2003 towing an ultralight trailer that supposedly was well within the towing specs concerning trailer weight and hitch weight without weight distribution. The trailer had a GVRW of 4,670 and a dry hitch weight of 260 lbs. I towed it unloaded once home from the dealer, and then with a tank of water once, and I almost sold it because of the near death sway. This little lightweight on a Tahoe is what caused me to buy a Hensley long ago. I'm sure that if the trailer had been better balanced, or if the Tahoe of that era had been lower to the ground, I never would have needed the Hensley Hitch (which to this day I still have and really like). Of course, in hindsight, it was later agreed that the Tahoe of that era was too tall and short wheelbase to tow anything at all close to half its own weight. But the manufacturer, Chevrolet, claimed it it had a 7,900 lb towing capacity. B.S.

[Marinermark]

Good point. We're pretty much stuck with our RV's design, and we have to hope that they did it right. We have to stow our stuff in the areas provided, and live with the mfgr's placement of the built-ins. If we have a yaw/sway problem (typically the result of low tongue weight), we have limited ability to reposition weight. My trailer, I believe, placed too much weight over/aft of the right rear wheel (refrigerator, water heater, holding tank). That overloaded that tire and caused 3 blowouts before I figured it out and got LR D tires. Bottom line: if it tracks OK we really don't care what the percentage is; if it doesn't it's our problem to solve.

[rvtrailerpuller]

I'm not saying European is better, nor North American, nor Australian, nor south African. I think this is a valid and intelligent conversation to be having. Boat trailers tow well, we all know that. I simply thought we could have a thoughtful discussion of design, without implying that any set of standards are superior. Of course, we all know of trailers we may have hauled in combination with a tow vehicle that we may have had that was a horrible combination without regard to so called towing capacity of the tow vehicle.

[BenK]

Have always wondered about the various comments of foreign towing is 'better' and
with lesser TV's, ETC...ETC

Anyone out there have an European built trailer over here in the America's ?

More importantly, to have also towed a trailer build 'here' in the same terrain,
ambient and TV

Know that many of the vehicles so highly touted can NOT be certified over here
and wonder if a ditto for their trailers over here?...or that the process
is onerous...even Micro Soft's Bill Gates could NOT certify the Porsche he
imported. Last heard was that they were still in impound...but that was decades
ago...maybe his money bought the certification tags... 😉

It is both DMV tags and insurance. My insurance broker and I talk
automobiles all the time and he confirms such a headache with the
rich clients who import XYZ thinking the same...