Trouble with California

[pitch]

Ag. Check points;we all know understand and tolerate them,never a problem.
Couple of weeks ago we were heade to redwood. National forest from Grants Pas Oregon.
Ag check ahead, ok I fall into line with everyone else,multiple lanes,cars trucks,other rv,s. Everyone pauses about thirty seconds and moves on. Normal right?
My turn, she looks at my NY tags,Have you any fresh fruits or vegetables on board?"
"No we Don,t"
"w
When was the last time this vehicle was in Ny?"
"About 8or9weeks ago."

She then grabs a flashlight and inspection miror and gives the undercarriage of both truck and trailer a thorough going over. She then does a second tour inspecting the roof area.
I was quite surprised,but oh well not an imposition.
"I would like to inspect the interior"

"Not with out a warrant"
"Sir Weare trying to protect our agricultural resources"

"I understand that,bbut you are not entering my trailer without a warrant !"

She gave me a look that could kill,and entered her both and made a phone call.

Minute is so later she comes out,shoves a handful of invasive critter literature into my hand and said,"move on"

Has anyone else been subjected to such nonsense,or did this inspector just have a bone for New Yorkers?

[goducks10]

Walaby wrote:

goducks10 wrote:
What has got me riled a few times is the Invasive Water Species check points. We sometime pack out kayaks on trips. They don't have any enclosed areas. Just a big open plastic shell.
There's checkpoints at rest areas and you're required to stop.
It could be twice in one day in the same state.
Really annoying especially when you don't plan on using the kayaks in that state. And if you do you still have to get inspected at the lake even after two inspections prior in the same state.

Agent: Sir, have you used your kayak in our state?
Driver: No
Agent: I want to inspect your kayak to see if there's any standing water inside.
Driver: You calling me a liar?

Wonder how many would have THAT confrontation....

Mike

Pretty much it.

[Walaby]

goducks10 wrote:
What has got me riled a few times is the Invasive Water Species check points. We sometime pack out kayaks on trips. They don't have any enclosed areas. Just a big open plastic shell.
There's checkpoints at rest areas and you're required to stop.
It could be twice in one day in the same state.
Really annoying especially when you don't plan on using the kayaks in that state. And if you do you still have to get inspected at the lake even after two inspections prior in the same state.

Agent: Sir, have you used your kayak in our state?
Driver: No
Agent: I want to inspect your kayak to see if there's any standing water inside.
Driver: You calling me a liar?

Wonder how many would have THAT confrontation....

Mike

[RICK-ards_Red]

romore wrote:
I wonder if I would be arrested and deported for that. We got searched once at the international border, cost us a tomato.

Same here 🙂

[goducks10]

Got stopped years ago going from Oregon to CA. The wife and I were on our Goldwing with a small cargo trailer in tow. They wanted to know if we had any fruits. I said yeah so they wanted us to pull over so they could look in our tiny Igloo type cooler that was in the trailer. Took about 5 mins. No biggie.
We been thru that same checkpoint too many times to count. All they want to know is if we have any fruit or ? stuff. We always do have limes. We always get told to keep going.

This year we went thru the checkpoint at the NV/CA border. They wanted to know if we had any firewood. It was stored in my truck box. I said yes we do. They wanted to know where from I said NV. Got told to keep going.

All these checkpoints are for is trying to keep bugs out of the vulnerable area. I don't see the big deal.

What has got me riled a few times is the Invasive Water Species check points. We sometime pack out kayaks on trips. They don't have any enclosed areas. Just a big open plastic shell.
There's checkpoints at rest areas and you're required to stop.
It could be twice in one day in the same state.
Really annoying especially when you don't plan on using the kayaks in that state. And if you do you still have to get inspected at the lake even after two inspections prior in the same state.

[Acampingwewillg]

I can't stop there...maybe as a Cop I did things a bit different but just for an example, when pulling someone over for a Traffic Violation or even a broken Tail light, I would let the Attitude of the person being stopped determine what could happen. No attitude/cooperative, quite possibly a warning! Lots of Attitude, then we get into that Parking Ticket you forget 5 years ago which resulted in a 200.00 warrant being issued(for those that don't know, a warrant such as this would normally be a warning also to take care of it due to an officer wanting to get out and put real criminals in Jail) but in this case, the attitude would negate that warning and promptly give the driver a one way ticket to Jail and then an Impound of their Vehicle pursuant to their arrest and an inventory search of said vehicle where those illegal drugs in your trunk would be located.....you get the picture.

Maybe I was just lucky, because 90% of the time, my partner and I would come out on top these scenario's....all because of Attitude. I'd be willing to wager Most if not all LEO's do the same.

[Acampingwewillg]

Once again...look at some of the older case Law....there are lots and lots of stipulations in regards to "Random" searches(ie...what does Random mean, every fifth Vehicle, every fourth Veh from New York, etc etc). I don't want to quote something in Legal jargon I don't quite understand but there is evidence that AG inspections DO, in Fact, help in keeping Calif(and other states) protected from AG born species foreign to ones AG industry. There is also case law regarding the manning of AG inspection stations and the authority for impeding traffic in general. Finally, there is standing for singling out those with "plates" from locations East of Kansas(I think that's what I read) for further investigation based on the "pest" that may enter from those locations. (Before everyone gets there panties tangled, Further Investigation would include asking one about Fruits or Vegetables and asking if a permissive search of a Vehicle or Trunk is possible.)

Just for the record...in Calif as well as every state in the US, there are provisions of the Vehicle Code, Business and Professions Code, Health and Safety Codes on and on, that can and will give a Law Enforcement Officer Probable Cause to continue an investigation....that's what those ticky tac provisions are for! In other words, play the attitude Game with someone who wants to make a Federal case about your refusal but be **** sure your NOT in violation of the thousands of other Vehicle Codes or any violation of Code that may be in Plain Sight because a CHP officer is only a phone call away. Yep, they may not gain access to your Vehicle/Trunk, but they can make life more difficult. My best advice and what I do is not at issue, Do What's Right for yourself but consider the many scenario's that could develop.

[Horsedoc]

pitch wrote:
You're kidding me right? You let the government violate your rights on awhim?
I have nothing to hide either but in 68 years of life I know the government is not my friend! That sovergn citizen **** does not have a thing to do with it either.

What expectation of privacy on the outside of the RV?

[Yosemite_Sam1]

dodge guy wrote:
They ask do you have any fruit or vegetables, I say no. Where is the problem. If they want to search every vehicle then put a sign up, we search all vehicles you have no choice. Don’t ask me questions if you are already going to do what you want.
If this keeps up then I will stay out of Cali. No need to go where people are not wanted. And this whole fruit issue was originally for transport trucks and it moved into checking to see if you have an apple or orange in your lunch bag!

And I'm sure Californians will miss you.

Read on the posts for some who have better knowledge than you and an actual experience. They make assessments based on your answers. When I was asked how long I've been traveling with my RV, the next question was which states or places I've been.

Stop these nutty persecution complex, victimhood and paranoia.

Just stay home! Who cares if you don't visit their state and your feeiings of self-importance, really?

[dodge_guy]

They ask do you have any fruit or vegetables, I say no. Where is the problem. If they want to search every vehicle then put a sign up, we search all vehicles you have no choice. Don’t ask me questions if you are already going to do what you want.
If this keeps up then I will stay out of Cali. No need to go where people are not wanted. And this whole fruit issue was originally for transport trucks and it moved into checking to see if you have an apple or orange in your lunch bag!

[Acampingwewillg]

As a former LA Police Officer, we would run into the "Sovereign Citizen" defense on a few occasions! Whenever these cases ended up in Calif Superior Court, the "Sovereign Citizen" lost, their car was impounded because of course, they had no need to pay registration nor have a Driver's license. But enough about that!!

If you want to read some Fun and rather old case Law involving "warrantless searches" in the INSPECTION arena...do a search on "Scope of AG inspections". It's interesting to note how some inspections(not AG specifically) are exempt from 4th Amendment requirements(building and safety for example) and what occurs when an inspector observes something out of their Scope. I only bring this up because I think we have already decided that AG inspectors are NOT Law Enforcement and as such do have certain procedures attached to following up on other "plain sight" observations and even for permissive Trunk searches.

OK...I've rambled on enough....

[Optimistic_Para]

Nobody asked me, but I'm going to add my $0.02 here. 🙂

A friend of mine, who is a lawyer, has told me to never, ever, under any circumstances, consent to a voluntary search. So if I am eve r asked, I'm going to refuse.

That said, if an Ag Inspector or a Border Patrol Officer asks to take a look in my rig, I'm going to cooperate. I understand why the want to look, and I approve of what they are doing.

There is a lawyer in Michigan named Steve Lehto who makes interesting YouTube videos on various legal subjects. For a good, not overly long video of his titled WHEN CAN THE POLICE SEARCH YOUR VEHICLE ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD see:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49ueZ9fl78g

For those of you not familiar with the sovereign citizen movement, there are a bunch of videos on YouTube showing them at traffic stops claiming they aren't driving, they are "traveling", they don't need a driver's license because they are not driving commercially, asking the cop to "show them the law" and demanding to know why he stopped them if he doesn't have a warrant. They always refuse to exit their vehicle, and they always end on laying on the side of the road in handcuffs, under arrest and with a smashed window.

Kind of fun to watch, actually. They are as delusional and out of touch with reality as people who think the world is being run by a cabal of leprechauns and unicorns!

[ppine]

This thread is demoralizing.
People need to understand the intent of ag inspection stations and why they are important.

[toedtoes]

JRscooby wrote:

Deb and Ed M wrote:
But an AG stop isn't about police enforcement - it's about protecting an area from invaders you surely don't know that you are transporting. Why on Earth would you not let someone find a pest that can create havoc in an environment?

Yes, but the uniform asks me, "Are you carrying fruits, veggies, or plants?" No. At that point, maybe tell me of the harm that could come from my fruit, fine. But "Can I come in and look?" Would translate in my mind to YOU ARE LYING! If uniform thinks they need to see for themselves, ask it inspect, don't ask what I have.

And this is what it comes down to: "they think I'm lying". People take that as a personal insult and get an attitude about it. Then the whole thing goes south.

In reality, it was NOT a personal attack. The inspector doesn't know the OP or anyone going through that checkpoint. They are simply making a quick judgment call as to which vehicle is most likely carrying a problem. An RV from across the country - far more likely to be carrying infected fruit than a compact car from in-state. So, they question the answer.

Years ago, I got stopped after a night out with friends. I had missed a turn and made an illegal u-turn. The officer asked me if I had been drinking. I said no, but my friends had and she's about to throw up. He had me "walk the line". Did I take it personally and get all mad? No, I did as he asked and passed the test and he let me go with a war ning. I could look beyond the "accusation" that I was lying and realize that it wasn't that off to think I could be lying. And if I had been drinking, I would have most likely BEEN LYING about not drinking.

Singularly, in the OP's situation, the inspector asked the question, then considered the odds that this person could be lying and decided it was enough of a chance to ask to look inside.

There was nothing more sinister than that.

[Yosemite_Sam1]

Geez people, focus. There are two factual issues here.

Legal - It is already a decided case, no less by the Supreme Court, that mobile homes/RVs are included in "automobile exemption" that can be searched without a need for warrant.

Environmental-agricultural protection -- of trees, seas, rivers, streams and natural resources we all love and the protection of the livelihood of millions of Americans in agriculture.

What's so difficult with that?

[JRscooby]

Deb and Ed M wrote:
But an AG stop isn't about police enforcement - it's about protecting an area from invaders you surely don't know that you are transporting. Why on Earth would you not let someone find a pest that can create havoc in an environment?

Yes, but the uniform asks me, "Are you carrying fruits, veggies, or plants?" No. At that point, maybe tell me of the harm that could come from my fruit, fine. But "Can I come in and look?" Would translate in my mind to YOU ARE LYING! If uniform thinks they need to see for themselves, ask it inspect, don't ask what I have.

We are a diverse group, but I bet the ONE thing we have in common is a love for the outdoors, right? And yet I'm astounded by the number of people who have an attitude about following guidlelines (not transporting firewood also comes to mind). I would gladly submit to a daily search if it would erase the millions of acres of dead trees, just for starters.

Yes, I am unabashedly a tree-and-fish hugger.

I might agree, but for the abuse of power by so many who have been given a little power. (Example Cop gets on the news, "Do what I tell you and I will not shoot you") No pushback.