WDH effects on TV rear axle?

[bigtime_077]

I was just getting done reading the 18 page thread on WDH and what they do. I was going to post there but realized that was from 2004.

Anyway a question I have is my travel trailer has a tongue weight of 900# with all installed options including propane bottles and batteries. I have 1200# bars on my hitch. My question is with no WDH the weight on the TV rear axle would be increased by 900#. So with the WDH installed would that likely be somewhere less than 900# of weight on rear axle being some is distibuted to the TV front axle and the trailer axles?

Just trying to understand this. I know tongue weight isn't reduced but the weight on the rear axle should be reduced because a portion would go to front axle and trailer axles.

[lbrjet]

Yes, that will add to your tongue weight and a portion of that will be moved to the trailer axles. You really need to hook up the trailer, load up the truck for camping, put your passengers in the truck and hit the CAT scale. You may be doing all of this worrying for nothing. You only need one weigh to determine if you are over GVWR or RAWR.

[bigtime_077]

So here is another quick question on this. When you load items in the campers front storage compartment it is between the TV rear axle and trailer axles. So I have reason to believe that the weight is somewhat shared between the two dependent on distance from each of the axles and if the trailer is tilted or not. So with that being said, whatever the share of the weight the rear of the truck is sharing of that load, would the weight distribution then force some of that weight back to the trailer axles.

Hopefully you know what I am saying because this even confuses me a little.

[bigtime_077]

I do think without a doubt a 3/4 ton would be better and I do understand the effects of the wind on these. This is not my first one and before I had a truck that was way underpowered. I however do not believe it will be any more dangerous than with anything else as I still think most of it comes down to the driver.

Also we stayed 1/2 ton because we only tow it 6-8 times a year and the rest of the days it is used by my wife as a daily driver.

Even though I have seen it I certainly wouldn't go any bigger with a 1/2 ton but that is just me and to each there own.

[campigloo]

I don't see you instantly killing the truck either. Short trips will probably not affect it too much. My experience is long hauls will get old because of handling characteristics and the strain on the truck will start to show. Remember you are pulling something similar to a sail, meaning weight is not the only concern. The real treat is after you get comfortable with this setup, when you do get the 3/4 ton you will realize how much more comfortable it is to tow with and you will be happy happy happy.

[APT]

That sticker doss not include a driver, any passengers, dealer accessories, aftermarket steps, bedliner, bed cover, etc. Full fluids including fuel is correct.

I towed with my prior TV at 0-500 pounds over GVWR depending on the trip. With a well adjusted Reese Strait line it performed great for the 2 seasons we used it. I was prepared to replace it sooner if I/we were uncomfortable.

[bigtime_077]

I talked to my service manager at the dealership where I bought the truck and told him my concerns. He stated, off the record of course, that a couple hundred pounds over the GVWR wouldn't be enough for him to trade in a new truck for a bigger one. He said obviously do what you can to keep it under but the truck certainly will not just implode because of that. After we talked for a while he actually sat down with me and we worked out the numbers of what I would be hauling and something he brought up that I was not aware of was that the payload number on the truck is already taken in to account a 150# driver and a full tank of gas and other fluids. Did not know that so that is almost 350# more capacity then I thought I would have. After knowing that he said I would be fine and not worry about it. Obviously I won't really know until I weigh it but then again even if I am over by a hair I am not going to trade the truck in.

I am however already working on the wife that when it comes time to replace the truck we need a 3/4 ton. Probably will stick with gas instead of diesel. Something else he mentioned was that 2 3/4 ton trucks all other things equal the diesel will have more towing capacity but the gas will have more payload because of the diesel engine being heavier. Man I feel like I am really learning a lot.

[traildog66]

bigtime_077 wrote:
Oh and the way my trucks hitch is set up right now the front is back to original height and the rear is about a 1/2" lower than with no trailer. RV mechanic also stated where he set it there isn't a ton of force on the bars and could easily go another chain link if I needed to.

If the above is the case and you keep the tongue weight at closer to 900lb loaded and don't take much in the bed of the truck you'll be fine.

[lbrjet]

Nobody said it isn't possible, but the steering geometry could be negatively impacted by doing that. Do as you wish.

[APT]

ScottG wrote:
Yes, some of the 900# is going to the front. If you tighten the bars down enough you'll see the front suspension go down. There are even pics on-line of a vehicle with the rear wheels removed because the bars force so much weight forward.

Not, that is not the goal. None of the TW does goes towards the front axle. Some that is lost is restored, thus the front suspension is decompressed, than compressed with WDH. While there are pictures of front wheel drive cars with the rear wheels removed, today's vehicles are not designed to do that. And it would drive with high instability.

bigtime_077 wrote:
There seems to be some difference of opinion as to whether or not any additional weight can be added to the front using the WDH. I tend to believe that you can.

No WDH or vehicle manufacturer in the last 20 years has recommended adjusting the WDH such that it is heaver than unhitched weight. In fact some vehicles in the last few years has said to restore only half the amount of weight that was lost on the front axle. So in my example where above where 350 pounds was lost on the front axle by dropping the tongue on ball, you would target a loss of only 175 pounds on the front axle, rear axle would be about +1000 pounds and trailer axles about +100.

There are two excellent sticky threads in this forum. How a WDH works and how to adjust a WDH. Measuring by weight is the best, but estimating by front fender height has worked great for me on two tow vehicles.

In short the two primary goals of WDH are return front axle weight/height to unhitched amount, and TT should be level to slightly nose down.

[bigtime_077]

Oh and the way my trucks hitch is set up right now the front is back to original height and the rear is about a 1/2" lower than with no trailer. RV mechanic also stated where he set it there isn't a ton of force on the bars and could easily go another chain link if I needed to.

[bigtime_077]

Thanks for the reply Scott. There seems to be some difference of opinion as to whether or not any additional weight can be added to the front using the WDH. I tend to believe that you can. After I had a talk with the RV mechanic that set the hitch up on the truck he said that definitely the weight is being distributed to the front and rear axle of the tow vehicle and the axles of the trailer. He also stated that it is proportional to the amount of tension you put on the bars. I am probably going to be close to 1000# of tongue weight on the truck or a little less once we load our few things for camping, the 900# was measured after the propane tanks and battery was installed so I believe that will be the biggest contributor of tongue weight.

I am sure I am going to catch a ton of flack for this but the reason I am discussing this is because I am pulling this trailer with a 2013 Silverado 1500. We never go further than 200 miles from home and never travel with tanks full. I never questioned the tongue weight as I guess I really never thought about it. Just knew what the trailer weighed and they set me up with the hitch I needed. I ran the numbers and I will be right at or slightly over GVWR of the truck but definitely not over the GAWR of the rear axle. Dealer I bought the truck from didn't seem to concerned at all about it and stated that they have had guys pulling 34' trailers with the 1500. I don't think I would do that. The only thing they said I may need to do is replace the P rated tires on the truck if they seem to shimmy too much.

Now I don't want to start a fight over this and I am not condoning it, I agree we should have gotten a 3/4 ton truck but we already own the truck and trailer and while I think it will be close to the limits I am not replacing them. After talking to a couple of guys in the service department they stated while it would not be good to exceed the trucks maximum rated capacity, the truck isn't going to fall apart if you do by a little. They said the numbers are pretty conservative for two reasons, one legal reasons, and two probably the biggest is they give themselves plenty of cushion because of the 100,000 mile warranty on the powertrain. However they did state if you were doing this on a daily basis then no way but a handful of times a year camping is not going to kill that truck.

[ScottG]

Yes, some of the 900# is going to the front. If you tighten the bars down enough you'll see the front suspension go down. There are even pics on-line of a vehicle with the rear wheels removed because the bars force so much weight forward.

[APT]

900 pound TW
Drop tongue on ball:
TV front axle -350 pounds
TV rear axle +1250 pounds

Apply WDH an adjust such that front axle 350 pounds is then restored:
TV FA +/-0 from unhitched
TV RA +700 pounds
TT Axles +200 pounds

[lbrjet]

None of that 900lbs is going to the front axle. Put 900 lbs on the back end and that levers weight off of the front end. The WDH puts back some or all of this weight if it is set up correctly. However, 15-20% of the TW will be moved to the trailer axles. Add the weight of the WDH itself to the rear end and you are still going to end up with close to 900lbs on the rear end of the truck. Maybe more if all the front end weight is not moved back to the front.