Why not forget holding tanks and just use portable tanks?

[nicpaige]

I have an all aluminum trailer that I am turning into a toy hauler. The floor framing is 12" on center and I beam construction. This only leaves 8-9" width to fit the tanks in between the rails. For any kind of volume the tank would have to be quite tall. I do not want my storage tanks 7" from the road for obvious reasons. So......
Is it just craziness to think about running the drains to the waste valves and straight into those portable tanks you can roll to the dump station? I realize I would need one for grey and one for the black tank.
What am I missing in this process? Or is it feasible and been done before?

Thanks,
Rick

[JaxDad]

BillyBob Jim wrote:

the bear II wrote:
That would work for most boondocking areas but most RV, National and state parks require RVs to meet RVIA standards which include holding tanks. You'll see park rules state "Must be fully self contained"

Recreation Vehicle Industry Association (RVIA)

Those blue portable tanks can be a hand full to dump depending on where you have to dump them. The smell can be deadly.

Holding tanks with a sealed sewer hose setup is the best way to go. Little or no smell or mess.

That's simply opinion. I have never seen in the published rules for any State or Federal Campground I am familiar with, which is more than a few, anything that references RVIA standards or the RVIA at all. The RVIA is a voluntary organization, there are RV manufacturers that do not even belong to RVIA. Are tent campers required to be self contained also.

OP, I have used and dumped a tote tank often. It's not the nightmare folks claim on these boards. Get a 4 wheel tote with a side mounted dump valve. You would not need separate totes for black and gray to do what you describe, you'll be dumping it down the same hole. No one is going to give you any flack or toss you from a campground for having a tote tank connected 24/7.

RVIA is merely the oversight body, the actual rules that must be adhered to are NFPA or ANSI standards. A quick look at any RVIA oval seal will show that it says that the seal is confirming the RV was built in compliance with NFPA XXX or some such standard.

RVIA certification is NOT mandatory, conforming to the standards IS mandatory.

As for campground rules, not seeing them, or they being enforced by unknowing (or uncaring) employees, does not mean they do not exist. Below is just one example of the many I’ve seen, at a park I frequent myself. A friend who did a similar rig, a converted cargo trailer, finally sold it because he was being refused a site so often.

Click here and see Rule # 24.4 in the middle of page 11.

It’s not just sewage either, fresh water plumbing, built in 120 volt wiring and / or propane appliances other than portables require certification to be legal also.

In lots of jurisdictions it’s also illegal to sell such a homemade rig unless it’s certified.

[JRscooby]

If the tanks are above a insulated floor, it would reduce the risk of freezing. Also, the drain could go out the bottom of tank instead of side, which will drain faster.

[nicpaige]

Gdetrailer wrote:
How about a real idea?

If you have enough height inside your trailer perhaps consider building a subfloor on top of the existing floor. Sort of like 5th wheel trailers have a "basement" which is where their tanks are put.

Typically most RV tanks are 7 inches or a bit less tall so you could easily make a new floor around 7" higher for the bathroom only or the entire living space. This would also give you a chase for other plumbing and electrical items.

Setup your layout correctly and you could make the tanks go under kitchen or even beds so your raised floor may not need to be the entire living space.

This is a possibility as I have 7'6" ceiling height. Great idea.

[Gdetrailer]

:R

[myredracer]

.

[NRALIFR]

Don’t shoot the messenger, Cooter. I didn’t say I agreed with it, or the signs interpretation of it. I posted it because others were apparently having trouble even finding the statute that the sign was referring to.

And don’t call me a “full blown geezer”. I’m more of a half-a$$ed geezer even on my best days.

:):)

[BillyBob_Jim]

NRALIFR wrote:
It actually 513.08 that says it’s illegal to dump sewage into anything other than an approved sewerage system.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2018/Chapter513/All

513.08?Disposal of sewage.—
(1)?It is unlawful to empty any receptacle or fixture containing human excreta, human urine, or any other liquid waste from a mobile home or recreational vehicle or at a recreational campsite except into a sewerage system approved by the department.
(2)?The operator or permittee of a mobile home park, lodging park, recreational vehicle park, or recreational camp shall provide such means for the emptying of such receptacles and for their cleaning as specified in the rules of the department.
History.—s. 1, ch. 19365, 1939; CGL 1940 Supp. 4150(2); ss. 19, 35, ch. 69-106; s. 3, ch. 76-168; s. 445, ch. 77-147; s. 1, ch. 77-457; ss. 2, 3, ch. 81-318; ss. 8, 14, 15, ch. 83-321; ss. 14, 26, ch. 93-150.

:):)

Please, when full blown geezer finally sets in will somebody cap me in the temple. Some of you folks are far beyond ridiculous.

[NRALIFR]

It actually 513.08 that says it’s illegal to dump sewage into anything other than an approved sewerage system.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2018/Chapter513/All

513.08?Disposal of sewage.—
(1)?It is unlawful to empty any receptacle or fixture containing human excreta, human urine, or any other liquid waste from a mobile home or recreational vehicle or at a recreational campsite except into a sewerage system approved by the department.
(2)?The operator or permittee of a mobile home park, lodging park, recreational vehicle park, or recreational camp shall provide such means for the emptying of such receptacles and for their cleaning as specified in the rules of the department.
History.—s. 1, ch. 19365, 1939; CGL 1940 Supp. 4150(2); ss. 19, 35, ch. 69-106; s. 3, ch. 76-168; s. 445, ch. 77-147; s. 1, ch. 77-457; ss. 2, 3, ch. 81-318; ss. 8, 14, 15, ch. 83-321; ss. 14, 26, ch. 93-150.

:):)

[BillyBob_Jim]

jkwilson wrote:

myredracer wrote:

2manytoyz wrote:


When I had a pop-up camper, here's what we were dealing with at St. Andrews SP in FL. Look at the lower right of the bulletin board on the bath house.

I tried a bit of googling on the statute numbers on the sign. I didn't see anything specifically banning tote tanks. Maybe it's cross-referenced in their statutes. Would be interesting to see the exact wording, if any. Or is it just the particular CG that just doesn't want people dragging smelly noisy totes around?

What if your tote tank is grey or you painted it pink?? 🙂

Have been to a couple of CGs in Oregon where they said you can't lay you sewer hose directly on the ground. Most people do it anyway. It's a nuisance to have to set up hose supports especially if you have two outlets. I never do it. I tried to find the Oregon law once and couldn't. Maybe another example of CGs referencing rules that don't exist?

The statute grants rule making authority to a state department regarding operation of RV parks and specifically mentions sewage collection and handling. The statute itself doesn’t prohibit the tanks, but likely whatever department operates the state parks has a rule against them.

RV forum drama. Not any state DEP or DCNR, or whatever they are named, has a rule against tote tanks. Post up the statute or link to one. I have hosted in parks in 4 different states and tote tanks have never even been a topic of discussion. Some of you people are missing a screw or two.

[steelhunter]

Why bother with tanks at all?

Just cut a hole in the floor and bombs away!

[Gdetrailer]

HadEnough wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:
How about a real idea?

If you have enough height inside your trailer perhaps consider building a subfloor on top of the existing floor. Sort of like 5th wheel trailers have a "basement" which is where their tanks are put.

Typically most RV tanks are 7 inches or a bit less tall so you could easily make a new floor around 7" higher for the bathroom only or the entire living space. This would also give you a chase for other plumbing and electrical items.

Setup your layout correctly and you could make the tanks go under kitchen or even beds so your raised floor may not need to be the entire living space.

This, exactly.

You need to get back to the drawing board.

Tanks come in all shapes and sizes. Check Ronco tanks for reference. Just design your tanks into the RV properly. Keep them inside to resist any freezing issues if that's a concern. Hang them under to keep a little more interior volume.

Forgot to mention, subfloor would also be very helpful for adding lots of insulation to the underside of your trailer.. typical RV trailers only have about R2 (1 1/2") or so of Styrofoam which doesn't amount to much at all.

Don't forget if installing tanks to also install a vent stack in each grey and black tank, vents can be 1 1/2" pipe and you want to take it up to the roof. Failure to do that would not be pretty.

[HadEnough]

Gdetrailer wrote:
How about a real idea?

If you have enough height inside your trailer perhaps consider building a subfloor on top of the existing floor. Sort of like 5th wheel trailers have a "basement" which is where their tanks are put.

Typically most RV tanks are 7 inches or a bit less tall so you could easily make a new floor around 7" higher for the bathroom only or the entire living space. This would also give you a chase for other plumbing and electrical items.

Setup your layout correctly and you could make the tanks go under kitchen or even beds so your raised floor may not need to be the entire living space.

This, exactly.

You need to get back to the drawing board.

Tanks come in all shapes and sizes. Check Ronco tanks for reference. Just design your tanks into the RV properly. Keep them inside to resist any freezing issues if that's a concern. Hang them under to keep a little more interior volume.

[jkwilson]

myredracer wrote:

2manytoyz wrote:


When I had a pop-up camper, here's what we were dealing with at St. Andrews SP in FL. Look at the lower right of the bulletin board on the bath house.

I tried a bit of googling on the statute numbers on the sign. I didn't see anything specifically banning tote tanks. Maybe it's cross-referenced in their statutes. Would be interesting to see the exact wording, if any. Or is it just the particular CG that just doesn't want people dragging smelly noisy totes around?

What if your tote tank is grey or you painted it pink?? 🙂

Have been to a couple of CGs in Oregon where they said you can't lay you sewer hose directly on the ground. Most people do it anyway. It's a nuisance to have to set up hose supports especially if you have two outlets. I never do it. I tried to find the Oregon law once and couldn't. Maybe another example of CGs referencing rules that don't exist?

The statute grants rule making authority to a state department regarding operation of RV parks and specifically mentions sewage collection and handling. The statute itself doesn’t prohibit the tanks, but likely whatever department operates the state parks has a rule against them.

[wa8yxm]

I used to do that with gray water only back in my Trailer days. Left the tote IN the trailer when I upgraded to an "A".

Only for Gray Used a port-a-potty though so it had a "luggagle" tank as well

Never have I been in a park with a sign like the Florida one. but then I don't park in florida (For assorted reasons I will not talk about here).

[JRscooby]

BillyBob Jim wrote:
Its hard to comprehend why companies like Barker and Thetford, who manufacture and market tote tanks that are such a PITA to use and are illegal in so many campgrounds, continue to do so.

I recognize your sarcasm. But at the same time I know a lot of things are made to sell, not to use.