Worse this year?

[Dog_Folks]

We are volunteer hosts at a Corps. Of Engineers campground. This is a our fourth summer here. (9th year overall hosting)

The past three years it was usual to have a noise compliant, maybe, once a month. This year we are receiving them once a week or more!

We are asked to explain and educate campers about the rules. No enforcement. 99% of the time campers will comply when the rule is explained to them. No problem.

This year I have had more people want to argue the rule. One 20 something group of six argued with me for 20 minutes about the "no parking/tents on grass" rule. After all that they only stayed one night!! ( I know I should have not argued but their overall attitude just angered me, which is VERY unusual.) I say to you campers: I did not write the rule, and there are places you can express your concern to, but not me.

So what you say work campers? Is the general overall mood, and thus people's actions much worse this year than other years?

[Naio]

"We live in a decaying age. Our youth spend their time in taverns and are
disrespectful to their elders.

-Anonymous graffiti, circa 1800 B.C, found in an internal
passageway of a pyramid.


"Where did you go?"
"I did not go anywhere."
"If you did not go anywhere, why do you idle about? Go to school."

-Sumerian, c. 1700 BC

Slamnslash wrote:
what I see more is lack of concern for others as a whole. There was a thread here a while back about allowing the use of your campers toilet while in a traffic jam. 90% of the replied was NO and Hell no's. I think the problem is both ways.

We moved into our trailer because campgrounds are tailored to be used by trailer campers. And there is some snobbery with the trailer users.

Like I said, it goes both ways. I am a gen x and have to deal with my parents as well as the millennials as well. Both are screwed up but it is our burden to bear.

I agree.

[Dog_Folks]

rekoj71 wrote:
I'm not sure if it is in direct relation to, but I and some other publications have noticed an increase in RV activity this year, including camping. I am finding more and more campgrounds full this year and it may have to do with the economy supposedly getting better and more people buying RV's. Remember though that this will bring in a new set of campers to the campgrounds, and not just those of us who have been around for awhile. Several of those will obviously be in a younger generation, and also maybe not know the etiquette that we take for granted.

Well, said and maybe a factor. I do know that the park is much busier this year, more often 100% full.

Naio said: "Do you tell the campers that when they complain?"

Yes I do. I start with: "I'm sorry, but I have to ask you to move the tent into the campsite. I know it is not as comfortable......"
I have even loaned out some of my personal tarps to minimize the "sharpness" of the rock.

I am starting to think it is a combination of things; 1. I am getting old. NO denying that. 2. The campground is much much busier 3. The demographics are changing.

I appreciate all the ideas.

[x96mnn]

3oaks wrote:

Fresno Tundra Driver wrote:
What you are seeing is a overall general decay with civility in society, especially with the under 30 crowd. Maybe its partly due to the internet, maybe it has something to do with the "everyone gets a trophy" generation growing up and thinking they are all extraordinary. Whatever it is, its the same thing all the LEO's and teachers are seeing. Everybody wants to argue with authority.

I believe you nailed the cause and most of the other replies describe the results. Unfortunately, what we are witnessing is the decline on America.

I am more in agreement with this statement although feel several on here all have valid points such as age and tolerance levels.

My observation we have shifted to a civilization that is rooting itself on entitlement instead of hard work. I do not think it is limited to the generations below 30, although it could be linked to the raising of those generations that started it. But like most things it is growing like a cancer in society today. Way to many conversations on how to beat the systems and a huge cloud around what is right and wrong, only time it seems to be wrong is if people cannot use the theory and take advanage of it as well to do what is best for them.

To the OP I think you are seeing a combination of your time doing the job, the fact that more people are camping which generates more issues and the mentality of society today influencing what is right and wrong.

Just my 2 cents...cause I'm entitled to it! 😛

[Slamnslash]

Let me throw this in there. While I agree its a millennial thing we were hardcore primitive campers until recently. We would camp five to ten days in a tent and have been doing so for years.
Our family has grown to 5 now, with that my kelty quatro was outgrown, then to a four season rei 6 something was outgrown. Now we went to a ten person Coleman that is huge. All of the sights around here are doing the same thing and putting in "pads" or like your place has "borders." Those things are a pain in the ass. The first problem is the retard who installed them. Poor grading, irregular shapes and layout, then fill with razor rock.
The sight is now tailored to camper campers and not tents. The prime sites get picked and people like us get stuck trying to fit a ten foot tent into an 8 foot pad.
Not justifying poor behavior but what I see more is lack of concern for others as a whole. There was a thread here a while back about allowing the use of your campers toilet while in a traffic jam. 90% of the replied was NO and Hell no's. I think the problem is both ways.

We moved into our trailer because campgrounds are tailored to be used by trailer campers. And there is some snobbery with the trailer users.

Like I said, it goes both ways. I am a gen x and have to deal with my parents as well as the millennials as well. Both are screwed up but it is our burden to bare.

[Skid_Row_Joe]

Dog Folks wrote:
Worked with the public my entire life. Most of it in my own businesses.

Certainly NOT my first encounter of this type in the past 9 years, but it just seems that there are a lot more of them this year.

Might be time to hang it up and retire. Your confrontations described aren't worth it IMO. After campers have been warned once, then call security or the County Sheriff's Dept. Every COE park I stay in have stringent enforcement, and sometimes armed watchman presence at the entry points overnight in their .Gov issue pick up.

[Naio]

Dog Folks wrote:

Naio wrote:
Where would a person set up a tent other than on grass?

I am sorry you are dealing with so much hassle. I think it's unlikely that the whole world has become grouchier this year :). Maybe your park has become popular with a different crowd?

All equipment must be set up on the site, which is delineated by 12x12 beams. Unfortunately, the site is gravel and not real tent "friendly."

coolmom42 wrote:


On a tent pad. Tent sites usually have a level spot or area for that purpose. Often they have a clear border.

Thanks for clarifying. In nearly 50 years of tent camping (before I got the van), I have never seen a campground where the sites had designated areas for tents, and you could not just put your tent anywhere you wanted on your site. Maybe this is regional difference?

I realise, of course, that you are not the one who makes the rules :). And I appreciate that you acknowledge that the sites are uncomfortable places to sleep. Do you tell the campers that when they complain? It might help. People like knowing their concerns have been heard and empathised with, even if you can't change the policy.

[rekoj71]

I'm not sure if it is in direct relation to, but I and some other publications have noticed an increase in RV activity this year, including camping. I am finding more and more campgrounds full this year and it may have to do with the economy supposedly getting better and more people buying RV's. Remember though that this will bring in a new set of campers to the campgrounds, and not just those of us who have been around for awhile. Several of those will obviously be in a younger generation, and also maybe not know the etiquette that we take for granted.

[noplace2]

coolmom42 wrote:

And a lot of people on here must spend a lot of time yelling at kids to GET OFF MY GRASS.

Unfortunately they frequently forget to add the GR! 😉

[coolmom42]

rhianna wrote:
Things may have changed a little, but I know for sure that after 18 years in CG (SP, Fed and private) that it has a lot more to do with me and my age. I find myself saying "those kids don't know anything" "they are rude" "they have no respect for their elders". Then in the back of my mind I hear my parents saying the same thing about my generation. Funny how things go round and round.

Yep.

And a lot of people on here must spend a lot of time yelling at kids to GET OFF MY GRASS.

[rhianna]

Things may have changed a little, but I know for sure that after 18 years in CG (SP, Fed and private) that it has a lot more to do with me and my age. I find myself saying "those kids don't know anything" "they are rude" "they have no respect for their elders". Then in the back of my mind I hear my parents saying the same thing about my generation. Funny how things go round and round.

[dewey02]

I believe there is less respect for authority and rules today than in the past.
There is a sense that many people have that they are entitled to do what they want, when they want and how they want, and the rules apply to everyone else, but not to them.

Whether this has come about as a result of "everyone's a winner", "my kid never does anything wrong" or whatever, I don't know. It just is what it is. And it isn't a good trend.

[USA_Traveler]

I was a volunteer with the Corps for 4 years and in a state park in NM for 2 years. The rangers in the Corps were not nearly as responsive as the SP. Maybe just the park I was in, but they were responsible for any out of control or abusive campers. I think you should tell the campers one time that they are in violation of whatever it is they are doing wrong, the make the call to someone with the true authority. People are going out camping to enjoy themselves and get away from the every day life of work, etc. They should be able to do that without some other bad attitude camper ruining it for them.

[pawatt]

"Nope, you, and I, are just getting older and less tolerant." My thoughts this may be one of several factors, I think it would apply to me.

[3oaks]

Fresno Tundra Driver wrote:
What you are seeing is a overall general decay with civility in society, especially with the under 30 crowd. Maybe its partly due to the internet, maybe it has something to do with the "everyone gets a trophy" generation growing up and thinking they are all extraordinary. Whatever it is, its the same thing all the LEO's and teachers are seeing. Everybody wants to argue with authority.

I believe you nailed the cause and most of the other replies describe the results. Unfortunately, what we are witnessing is the decline on America.

[noplace2]

Dog Folks wrote:
So what you say work campers? Is the general overall mood, and thus people's actions much worse this year than other years?

Nope, you, and I, are just getting older and less tolerant. We did the workamping thing for nearly 10 years. Happens to the best of us and I'd be willing to bet my left (fill in the blank here) that our great grandparents had similar things to say about those whippersnappers sashaying their way across the land in their new-fangled prairie schooners!

Someone way down the list had the following to type:

"What you are seeing is a overall general decay with civility in society, especially with the under 30 crowd. Maybe its partly due to the internet, maybe it has something to do with the "everyone gets a trophy" generation growing up and thinking they are all extraordinary. Whatever it is, its the same thing all the LEO's and teachers are seeing. Everybody wants to argue with authority."

Except for the internet part, nothing has really changed. My grandfather/mother would likely be ranting the same stuff 100 years ago.

So, to summarize, I don't believe anything is much different than always has been thus. And to further add, I don't want to spend my remaining days moaning about it. Just sayin'