Pets- unpopular viewpoint

[Jayco-noslide]

First, we do not dislike dogs per se. We used to have one and several family members have really cute, friendly dogs. Now the "however" part. Wife and I feel our culture is increasingly moving toward "dog friendly" to the excess and that we have to start speaking up for the segment of the population that do not feel dogs should be allowed in stores, restaurants, etc. OK for seeing eye dogs on a leash but not for other companion types of dogs. You should not allow your dog to go up to someone just assuming they will want to make over it unless invited. Dog should always be leashed in a campground, pick up all waste and it's the owner's responsibility that the dog does not bark often whether owner is present or not. I could go on. We realize most owners are responsible but too many are not in campgrounds and other public areas.

[Stefonius]

toedtoes wrote:

Stefonius wrote:
It always makes me laugh when I pull up to a DRIVE UP ONLY ATM, only to find a full set of instructions on it in Braille.

You do realize that the drive up ATM is actually the same device as the walk up. So the Braille is placed on it at the manufacturer by default. Cheaper to put it on all during manufacturer than to put it on some after they're sold.

That's true NOW (and makes perfect sense), but when the ADA first took effect, the EXISTING ATMs in drive-thru lanes had to have Braille instructions applied to them with an adhesive. I know... I did it. The law as written makes no distinction between accessible and inaccessible locations. If you own a restaurant that can only be accessed by climbing an 80 foot ladder and you remodel your bathrooms, you MUST make them wheelchair accessible.

[toedtoes]

dturm wrote:
I tend to agree with most of the posts, and I've got to thank most of you for keeping this on topic and relatively civil.

BUT, the tendency to swing the other way and maintain that there is not place for a service dog that does anything other that aid a blind person doesn't really address real services that some dogs perform. The problem is that there isn't a good definition of those services and how those dogs are certified.

That's why the law needs more specificity and some sort of certification that is more than ordering a vest online.

I can't tell you how many injuries I've fixed (on their dogs) due to people not understanding canine behavior and ultimate stupidity. I understand Lowes (and other businesses) pet policy, but I'd never take my dogs into that kind of environment - just asking for trouble. I also don't take my dogs into pet stores - personal pet peeve :B.

BTW, we've had several experiences while camping where children have been amazingly educated by their parents/schools. The kids approach slowly, ask permission then get down on our dog's level to pet. There are some good people out there.

Doug, DVM

I agree.

I think there are some service dogs that aren't easily identifiable - like those that anticipate an epileptic seizure. That's where the issue comes into effect. And that's why the question "what task(s) does the dog perform?" is important. If they say, "it's a comfort dog", it's not covered under the ADA. Understanding the difference between a "task" and an "effect" is important. One dog has an effect of calming you; the other has the task of informing you of an oncoming seizure. Completely different things.

The only time I take the dogs into the pet store is for sizing collars when they are growing. With the expandable collars, I can pretty much skip that also.

When I fostered, we did adoptions at the local pet stores. Fosters would bring toys, treats, etc., for the dogs and spread them around the floor. I would make them put everything up and away. We had customers walk up with their dogs to "say hi" to the fosters. Between the visiting dogs and kids, having those toys and treats lying around was a disaster waiting to happen.

[toedtoes]

Stefonius wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:
Sorry but ADA is a bit of a pet peeve of mine.

Your post is a great theory but unfortunately, ADA is a poorly written piece of legislation...

ADA: good in theory bad in actual application.

I agree wholeheartedly. It always makes me laugh when I pull up to a DRIVE UP ONLY ATM, only to find a full set of instructions on it in Braille.

You do realize that the drive up ATM is actually the same device as the walk up. So the Braille is placed on it at the manufacturer by default. Cheaper to put it on all during manufacturer than to put it on some after they're sold.

[dturm]

I tend to agree with most of the posts, and I've got to thank most of you for keeping this on topic and relatively civil.

BUT, the tendency to swing the other way and maintain that there is not place for a service dog that does anything other that aid a blind person doesn't really address real services that some dogs perform. The problem is that there isn't a good definition of those services and how those dogs are certified.

That's why the law needs more specificity and some sort of certification that is more than ordering a vest online.

I can't tell you how many injuries I've fixed (on their dogs) due to people not understanding canine behavior and ultimate stupidity. I understand Lowes (and other businesses) pet policy, but I'd never take my dogs into that kind of environment - just asking for trouble. I also don't take my dogs into pet stores - personal pet peeve :B.

BTW, we've had several experiences while camping where children have been amazingly educated by their parents/schools. The kids approach slowly, ask permission then get down on our dog's level to pet. There are some good people out there.

Doug, DVM

[Crowe]

They have no reasoning skills, and that is why we are fully responsible for them.

Who, the kids or the dogs? :B

Here are your words. They equally apply to parenting children.

Yes indeed.

[DownTheAvenue]

streaminhope wrote:

As far as trying to compare a dog with children...it is a ridiculous comparison...They have no reasoning skills, and that is why we are fully responsible for them... I'm to provide the best training and care possible and to accept responsibility...

Here are your words. They equally apply to parenting children.

[Stefonius]

valhalla360 wrote:
Sorry but ADA is a bit of a pet peeve of mine.

Your post is a great theory but unfortunately, ADA is a poorly written piece of legislation...

ADA: good in theory bad in actual application.

I agree wholeheartedly. It always makes me laugh when I pull up to a DRIVE UP ONLY ATM, only to find a full set of instructions on it in Braille.

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

jesseannie wrote:
I work at Lowes and we have a pet friendly store. There are problems with this. We have had dog fights, employees have been bitten, i have cleaned up poop,pee and barf. This is part of customer service in a store like ours.
I actually enjoy interacting with the dogs sometimes more than the people. But on busy weekends the crowd of people AND the dogs I worry there is going to be a bad outcome?
Jesseannie

I have noticed (particularly in Florida) that some stores will ask customers to bring their pets inside rather than leave them in the cars, and that makes sense in a hot climate. *I* normally don't - if I'm going to the store I simply leave the dogs home. But if were returning from a trip and I had to run inside Lowes to grab something, it's nice to not have to worry about them being in the hot vehicle.

My guys have excellent manners - but as a good dog owner - I would NEVER expect an employee to clean up after my dog.

[brewjaz]

soren wrote: I strongly agree that it's time for businesses and others in charge of the public space to put a hard stop to the, "comfort/anxiety/protection/makes me feel special/ people pay attention to me when my mutt wears a vest" fake service dog scam.You have a right to be the strangest person imaginable, but when your fake service dog is licking produce at the grocery store, or a poorly trained mess sitting next to my table inside a restaurant, we have a problem."

You hit the nail on the head, Soren.

[jesseannie]

I work at Lowes and we have a pet friendly store. There are problems with this. We have had dog fights, employees have been bitten, i have cleaned up poop,pee and barf. This is part of customer service in a store like ours.
I actually enjoy interacting with the dogs sometimes more than the people. But on busy weekends the crowd of people AND the dogs I worry there is going to be a bad outcome?
Jesseannie

[brewjaz]

Campfire Time wrote:

DownTheAvenue wrote:

Stefonius wrote:

Jayco-noslide wrote:
First, we do not dislike dogs per se. We used to have one and several family members have really cute, friendly dogs. Now the "however" part. Wife and I feel our culture is increasingly moving toward "dog friendly" to the excess and that we have to start speaking up for the segment of the population that do not feel dogs should be allowed in stores, restaurants, etc. OK for seeing eye dogs on a leash but not for other companion types of dogs. You should not allow your dog to go up to someone just assuming they will want to make over it unless invited. Dog should always be leashed in a campground, pick up all waste and it's the owner's responsibility that the dog does not bark often whether owner is present or not. I could go on. We realize most owners are responsible but too many are not in campgrounds and other public areas.

I feel the exact same way about small children. 🙂

....and another here that feels the same way.

I've worked with rescues most of my life and KNOW people that take their dogs everywhere. They have actually told me how easy it is to get "comfort" service dog status for their dogs. One told me she got it for her Pit Bull solely to let others know how friendly the breed is and help dispel the horrible reputation they have. While I understand her heart is in the right place--it is SO wrong. This belongs right up with the scam of handicapped parking passes, welfare access cards, etc.

Bottom line--bad people.

[pasusan]

Pawz4me wrote:

my440 wrote:
My Shitzus stay off the leash while at our RV sites but not till they settle down after arriving. The pouting and playing the victim is overwhelming to me.
The leashes are on though when were inside the motorhome and their not and worn whenever off our pad.
The leashes are always present, usually tied to a picnic table just as a reminder or when a stray dog or cat approaches.
I don't like when a stray dog approaches our rv sites, they disrupt the whole camp, then you need to deal with the dogs owner arriving acting like its the first time.

I have a Shih Tzu and I kind of understand your post. I've had dogs all my life, mostly sporting and working breeds who were all well trained, but the Shih Tzu is the first one I trust to not leave my side. He just won't. He takes his "job" as a companion very, very seriously and couldn't possibly care less about anyone or anything except me. Nevertheless, he's leashed at all times when he's outside at a campground.

Keeping your dogs leashed all the time is about much more than protecting them. People walking around who see your dogs long before they get close deserve the respect of visually being able to see a leash or tie out restraining your dogs. Otherwise they have no way of knowing that the dogs aren't going to rush out at them. To place others who have paid just as much as you to enjoy the campground in a position to have to wonder whether your dogs might run out at them, or whether they need to turn around to avoid an encounter, is just not right. Do unto others and all that jazz.

Thank you! Last week DH and I were walking in a nearby neighborhood and 2 boxers came running at us through their yard. No restraints - no people outside - they were running and barking - seemingly in attack mode. I screamed. Then they stopped abruptly a couple feet from us - apparently an electric fence. How were we to know?

On another note - last weekend we were visiting Niagara Falls on the American side. I'd say 70 to 80 percent of the visitors brought their dogs. Were they showing the Falls to their pets? We were feeling bad for our cats who we did not bring - they missed out.

[streaminhope]

****AS a Responsible dog owner I HATE the easy availability of 'service vests, ADA Cards, Patches (In training, Emotional Support etc)
and cringe everytime I have to 'share' my eating experience with the fakes.
Unfortunately Business Owners can only ask 2 questions
1) Is this a Service Dog (PET etc....be it a dog, pig, chicken)
2) What 'tasks' does it preform

Lie and business owner has no choice. ****

Or HOA...really, I've seen it. I have a family member who has a pomeranian...not neutered and not trained well...He marks everywhere and has terrible behavior around other dogs. The family member moved into a condo unit that did not allow dogs. She went and had the dog "certified" as a therapy dog and then threatened to sue the condo HOA if they did not allow her to keep her dog. This dog performs no tasks.

As far as trying to compare a dog with children...it is a ridiculous comparison based on the fact that humans are humans and are not property to be owned. Animals, however, are property. They have no reasoning skills, and that is why we are fully responsible for them. I have several animals and love them dearly. As an owner, I'm to provide the best training and care possible and to accept responsibility, as well as deal with the reality they are not humans and have very different needs. I'm worried when folks try to elevate animals to the status of humans. I've seen people do this and end up putting their animals in detrimental situations.

Edited to add, I don't know what happened to the quote feature, but inside the asterisk is the quote for the thread I was agreeing with.

[Pawz4me]

my440 wrote:
My Shitzus stay off the leash while at our RV sites but not till they settle down after arriving. The pouting and playing the victim is overwhelming to me.
The leashes are on though when were inside the motorhome and their not and worn whenever off our pad.
The leashes are always present, usually tied to a picnic table just as a reminder or when a stray dog or cat approaches.
I don't like when a stray dog approaches our rv sites, they disrupt the whole camp, then you need to deal with the dogs owner arriving acting like its the first time.

I have a Shih Tzu and I kind of understand your post. I've had dogs all my life, mostly sporting and working breeds who were all well trained, but the Shih Tzu is the first one I trust to not leave my side. He just won't. He takes his "job" as a companion very, very seriously and couldn't possibly care less about anyone or anything except me. Nevertheless, he's leashed at all times when he's outside at a campground.

Keeping your dogs leashed all the time is about much more than protecting them. People walking around who see your dogs long before they get close deserve the respect of visually being able to see a leash or tie out restraining your dogs. Otherwise they have no way of knowing that the dogs aren't going to rush out at them. To place others who have paid just as much as you to enjoy the campground in a position to have to wonder whether your dogs might run out at them, or whether they need to turn around to avoid an encounter, is just not right. Do unto others and all that jazz.

[Old-Biscuit]

Dog was ALWAYS on a leash even when she 'took herself for a walk'