3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Rocky7184]

BTW Prof this is really a great thread.I'm learning quite alot.Thanks for some really fine information.It's very much appreciated.


jeff

[Rocky7184]

professor95 wrote:
Rocky,

You will need an adapter that plugs into the 120 volt duplex outlet on the generator (the one that looks like the sockets in your house) and terminates with the 30 amp 120 volt style socket that matches your camper.

One style of these adapters is commonly called a "dog bone adapter"

You can buy them at Wal-Mart, Camping World, or most any RV store for about $10.00.

Look back through this thread. You will find discussion and links to sites showing and/or selling these adapters.

I hope your father in-law likes his gift. I know I would!

I think he has one of those dog bone adapters.I was under the impression that the large plug on the camper had to go into the same size socket.If one side of the dogbone has a 3 prong standard plug won't that side get hot (hi amp draw) when you try and run the A/C.

Please excuse my lack of knowledge on this electrical stuff.

jeff

[Dubman]

I was thinking about putting the ELIM3000 in the back of my PU.(Don't have one yet) I also have a tonneau cover and was planning on just having tailgate open when running it.. Would this amplify the sound, or help to keep noise level down. Any ideas??

[padgett]

For more models of generators than you ever wanted to see, check out http://www.fuzing.com/ctt/001009/11/Electrical_Generators. Most in the catagory we are looking at are remarkably similar in layout which makes sense and only have subtle differences and almost all have links to the company's web sites (isn't this a marvelous age we live in ? Of course everyone says that.)

One thing I am curious about and Professor you might be able to answer this: I am seeing 2600 watt generators with 6.5 hp engines and 3750 watt units with 5.5. Shouldn't there be some relation between engine power and generator output ?

[dlefarris]

MrWizard wrote:
if your Rv has a Generator compartment, it should all ready be insulated..for the noise, and it should be a welded sealed boxed only open to the bottom and the door so no heat or fumes go into the RV.

if it;s not insulated , that is easy to do

slides are available from camping worls and other distributers

my generac sets on a sliding drawer ? makes it much easier to change the sparkplugs and oil

it came that way, but had an Onan 6.5 K that died..( seized ) so i replaced it with the generac

I have owned 3 onan of which 2 were brand new, they were maintained on a regular basis, parts (circuit boards) were very expensive, and they were high maintenance, I was never impressed with them. I noticed they have came out with a small sinewave generator called the "Equinox" at a decent price that has a troubleshooting feature as part of the remote start panel. The concept looks great and I would assume they are trying to sell all of the older style before they publicize the new technology....

[Jack_Shidemantl]

Just want to say thankyou to the professor who obviously spent much time researching this subject. Also thanks to everyone else who provided information. This is a great forum!
For anyone close to the Dayton Oh area there are 3 Pepboys stores here and they all appear to stock the ELIM3000 at $279. Probably several stores in Columbus area also.

[MrWizard]

if your Rv has a Generator compartment, it should all ready be insulated..for the noise, and it should be a welded sealed boxed only open to the bottom and the door so no heat or fumes go into the RV.

if it;s not insulated , that is easy to do

slides are available from camping worls and other distributers

my generac sets on a sliding drawer ? makes it much easier to change the sparkplugs and oil

it came that way, but had an Onan 6.5 K that died..( seized ) so i replaced it with the generac

[MrWizard]

Nice to get a little more info about the champion #c46....

since the prof had posted a picture link

and I had posted adv info regarding , kragen, checkers, the parent ccompany

[jimraysr]

Clark W. Griswold wrote:
Prof,

I have this type of adapter:
Adapter

I also have the standard dogbone adapter. Is there any significant difference in the dogbone or the power maximixer in conjuction with this typ of gen set?

If your Maximiser (SP?) will fit, it would be better as there is more contact area to transfer the current to your shore cord.

Jim

Opps, didn't mean to stick my nose in, didn't notice it was addressed to the Prof.

[Clark_W__Griswo]

Prof,

I have this type of adapter:
Adapter

I also have the standard dogbone adapter. Is there any significant difference in the dogbone or the power maximizer in conjuction with this typ of gen set?

[professor95]

Rocky,

You will need an adapter that plugs into the 120 volt duplex outlet on the generator (the one that looks like the sockets in your house) and terminates with the 30 amp 120 volt style socket that matches your camper.

One style of these adapters is commonly called a "dog bone adapter"

You can buy them at Wal-Mart, Camping World, or most any RV store for about $10.00.

Look back through this thread. You will find discussion and links to sites showing and/or selling these adapters.

I hope your father in-law likes his gift. I know I would!

[Rocky7184]

professor95 wrote:
The rebate from Pep Boys for the ELM3000 is available until April 2nd. Even if the store does not know about the rebate or says there is none..... there still is!

You need your sales receipt (or a copy)
You need the UPC code cut from the ELM3000 box.
You need to print out the rebate form from the Pep Boys web site.

Complete the form, put all in an envelope and mail. $20.00 should eventually come back to you.

Don't believe the store - THERE IS AN ACTIVE REBATE UNTIL APRIL 2nd.

I bought a Elim 3000 today(3/29) for my father in law.My question is...how do you hook it up to run the a/c.Theres only 1 220volt outlet and 2 110volt outlets.His camper has a large 30amp angled plug.Does he need an adapter to go from the 110 to the 30amp ????

Also....he doesn't know i bought this for him.So if the event he does not want this i will make it available to anyone who wants it.I got it for 249.00 minus the 20 dollar rebate.I'm in Dayton Oh which is real easy to get to form Indiana ,KY,Mich and of course Ohio.
I can't imagine why he won't want it...but ya never know.
I'll know next week when they get back from vacation and will post.
If anyone is interested you can PM me.

[skram]

Very helpful thread, thank you for the time and effort. Now if I can just find on eof these generators.....

[professor95]

Paul,

Thank you very much for joining this forum and providing the information on the Champion unit.

If you look back to the beginning of this forum, you will note that it all started when I asked what experience others may have had with the Chinese manufactured generators appearing on the market.

One in particular of interest to me was the ELM3000 imported by ELIM International. This particular generator is manufactured by Jiang Dong. Jiang Dong also manufactures the similar units sold by Harbour Freight.

All I had was a photo of the Champion unit. From the photo, it appeared to be manufactured almost identical to the Jiang Dong unit. According to your post, it is not manufactured by Jiang Dong as I "assumed". The manufacturer is Tong Yong.

What still amuses me is the apparent similarities of the units. I can't help but wonder who copied who and in the process were the negative aspects reproduced from one company to another or was there some R&D to improve the product?

In any event, ELIM International claims that Jiang Dong is a long standing Chinese company that manufactures its engines under a "contract" from Honda - meaning it is not an unauthorized rip off but an approved clone. While I do not have proof that any of these statements are true, I do have visual and verbal confirmation that it is possible that the claim is valid.

When all is considered, it is really a moot point who in China makes what, but rather what you brought out concerning the availability of parts, tech support and reliable product information. I am glad to learn that Champion is committed to this goal.

The purpose of this forum was not to endorse a specific product, brand or importer. But, rather to discuss and compare the suitability of various imported Chinese manufactured generators. I believe we have maintained that aspect of the formum extremely well. Again, it is not an ELM3000 forum.

The information you provided certainly goes a long way toward meeting the forum's objective.

I personally look forward to seeing tests on the Champion unit similar to what we have conducted on the Jiang Dong generator.

There are a number of other questions specific to the specs on the Champion I would like to ask you. But, I am short of time right now and am anxiously awaiting tomorrow when we will be making our first 2005 RV voyage to Virginia Beach. When I get back (Sunday night), I will forward those questions to you.

Again, many, many thanks for joining us and providing this very valuable information!

[fellow_traveler]

this update is from champion power products the update
Specifications Sheet for Model C46535 CPE Generator 3500Watt
hope this helps (Professor wizard)


1. Wattage limits - Sustained load - 3500 watts
- Intermittent load (surge) - 4450 watts

2. 4 receptacles - 30 amp 120 volt twistlock - 1 - 20 amp breaker
30 amp 120/240 volt t/lock - 1 -
15/20 amp breaker
20 amp 120 volt Duplex (house type)
-1- 20 A Brkr.
12 volt output with charging cord –
1 - 10 A Brkr

3. Engine - 6.5 HP OHV Champion Power Equipment

4. Dry weight – 106 lbs.

5. Fuel tank capacitiy – 4.0 gals. 10 – 12 hrs. (running time)

6. Oil capacity - .6 qt.

7. Sound levels - dBa scale at 22.75 ft. facing soundmeter@op. load
Engine – 76 dBa
Panel - 72 dBa
Muffler - 70 dBa
Backside – 72 dBa

8. Outside dimensions - 23.75 L x 16.75" W x 17.25 H

9. For any additional information, please call 1-877-338-0999 x107
or cell phone no. 1-626-230-5248 after hours.
Email address – championtechonline@gmail.com

--
I hope this will resolve your question,

Paul Cole - Technical Engineer
Champion Power Equipment
1715 Business Center Dr.
Duarte, CA 91010
Phone no. (toll free) 877-338-0999
Cell no. 626-230-5248
Fax no. 626-932-1977
Hey fellow campers there is a new power generator #ca46535 on the market its sold at checker auto it has a 6.5 horse power motor (its built very much like a honda motor) thats so quiet you can have a conversation on your cell phone standing by this power plant it has a 3500watts cont. and a 4450watt surge it has a 30amp 110 Rv outlet and a 110/240 20amp outlet and a duplex 110 outlet and a 10 amp 12volt connection with cables all this is in a frame with camp ground 70db muffler .. it has also pnumatic wheels and buffered motor mounts and a pull arm check it out its sells for get this $299.00 its built in china by a automated small engine mfg. the company in the US is called Champion Power Equipment.com also the company wants to be the RV campers small power source with parts and teck help I spoke with the company teck rep and He said there is more to come! (Hey Proffessor) here is the teck service engineer for champion power products Personal service and long time commitment ... fellow traveler
Paul Cole "Regarding the confusion on this ad, Checker has listed product nos. from existing stock they may have from other companies. They are replacing older inventory with ours. The only generator we are selling Checkers at this time is the C46535. The other nos. listed are for Powerwise and another brand which I am not sure. Our Generator is made for us by a manufacturer in China called Tong Yong Ltd. One thing I would like to make you aware of, is the Chinese are great copiers. Quality is not always exceptable. Don't let the looks fool you. We are the sole importer in this country of the Tong Yong Ltd. Generators and demand quality that other companies have no control over. They sell a package til their sold out and move on to the next. Your assurance of parts into the future becomes an issue. Our commitment to our customers is long term. Our stock on hand of parts is exceptional and we are also establishing about 300 service centers nationwide to offer more localized assistance. Currently we are servicing from our National headquarters in Duarte. But we will be having our authorized service center list soon. We are committing over $1 million just for service support this year alone. We are serious about selling and servicing our products and be it as it is, there will always be those that will emulate the best of the best. I hope I don't have to continue apologizing for a lot of the junk that people are subject to when left out in the cold for warranty and replacement parts by companies selling only and letting the support dissipate when the last unit is sold. I test these units on an ongoing basis and stay available for any customer to get direct answers. As you well know, I don't have to be chased to get answers. I treat every call and email with the personal touch and will expect the same from any of our techonline support we will offer in the future. I have no problem with you giving my phone or email address to anyone that needs their questions answered."



Hope you had a great Easter weekend and will continue to digest your input and build improvements into future production. I can say that, our Chinese manufacturer listens to what our needs are and changes are made sooner than later.



Catch ya later,


Paul D. Cole



Technical Engineeer

Champion Power Equipment, Inc.

1715 Business Center Drive

Duarte, CA 91010

Tel: 626-932-1888 * 107

Fax: 626-932-1977

E-mail: pdcole@cpeauto.com



Tech Service: championtechonline@gmail.com