3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[MrWizard]

I t would be interesting to see a comparative analysis of the manufacturing process and quality of materials and components of these gensets (JD, Loncin, etc).
Having used a Homesite generator for two years now with no problems, I can't help but think that there is some difference in the overall quality and longevity of the different makes. Then too, I may be trying to justify the additional cost of my purchase.

yes that QUALITY topic has come up before, the analysis is not available, but JD. Loncin, and Champion, Kipor do appear to have better QC and reliability, and Champion has CS second to NO body, they are number ONE on CS

i'm sure that Cumins onan has invested in plenty of Spare Parts for the warehouse and service training for their network. and i'm equally sure they investigated the quality issue before picking the models they but their name on.

they are NOT going to tolerant too many DOA's & customer returns

it is interesting that these models are at costco NOT an RV dealer, I wonder if they are listed on the Onan website

special offer at costco for the Homesite model NOT an inverter type geset, ends in 2 days

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11215703

[Arcamper]

Just bought the Champion 3500 with the RV plug from TSC yesterday for $289. It is not as loud as I feared after reading all the post on here. Was saving for the Honda 2000 but now I can camp all next spring with the money I saved..

[WaltinColo]

more chinese ? ..... Onans available from costco

With the price on those things, you might as well go out and buy a Honda...

[byates]

professor95 wrote:

MrWizard wrote:
more chinese ? ..... Onans available from costco

Yep, it specs out like a contract built Kippor.

What I find interesting is that Cummings/Onan which has a long-time reputation for building high quality, durable RV generators is now putting their name on at least two Chinese built products in a totally different class (Homesite and the digital model). I can infer two different things:

1. The demand and market for gensets in our class and price range is large enough to make them feel like they need to get on the "band wagon."

2. Their trust and confidence that the Chinese built products are of high enough quality and durability to safely put their name on. They would be insane to put their brand on "Chinese Junk." They have a huge reputation to protect.

Don't know about you, but seeing the Cummins/Onan name on these products makes me feel even better about my decision to use similar Chinese brands in an RV environment.

I expect even more name brands to eventually follow their lead.

It would be interesting to see a comparative analysis of the manufacturing process and quality of materials and components of these gensets (JD, Loncin, etc).
Having used a Homesite generator for two years now with no problems, I can't help but think that there is some difference in the overall quality and longevity of the different makes. Then too, I may be trying to justify the additional cost of my purchase.

b. yates

[professor95]

77charger wrote:
Mine stopped putting out voltage motor ran fine no probs.Later at home it looks like the fan blade at the bottom of the generator head was broken up and in many small pieces.

Thus, we can infer that the fan broke, temps rose in the genhead and the VR failed due to high heat? Of course, a piece of the fan may have done some damage to the stator or rotor as well.

The engine has a tapered shaft, but it can be adapted for us to use on other pieces of equipment - go carts, pumps, leaf vacuums, etc. Either need to put the taper in the PTO pulley, make an adapter on a lathe or turn the crankshaft. I know a local who turned the crank without removing it from the engine. He clamped the engine to a heavy work bench, mounted a cross slide drill press vice to a homebrewed wooden tool rest, clamped in a M2 cutting tool, started the engine and watched the chips fly from the crank as he moved the tool in and left to right. He then used a steel bushing from Tractor Supply to make the crank 3/4" diameter. Worked darn good - even if it was my idea he used!

[professor95]

MrWizard wrote:
more chinese ? ..... Onans available from costco

Yep, it specs out like a contract built Kippor.

What I find interesting is that Cummings/Onan which has a long-time reputation for building high quality, durable RV generators is now putting their name on at least two Chinese built products in a totally different class (Homesite and the digital model). I can infer two different things:

1. The demand and market for gensets in our class and price range is large enough to make them feel like they need to get on the "band wagon."

2. Their trust and confidence that the Chinese built products are of high enough quality and durability to safely put their name on. They would be insane to put their brand on "Chinese Junk." They have a huge reputation to protect.

Don't know about you, but seeing the Cummins/Onan name on these products makes me feel even better about my decision to use similar Chinese brands in an RV environment.

I expect even more name brands to eventually follow their lead.

[77charger]

I had a duropower 3500 peak 3000 running watts.I bought it in summer05 used it for toyhauler.Was pretty quiet(imo lil quiter than my current champion).Anyhow i ran this gen hard put alot of hours on it and it kept going have ran it at least three times non stop over a whole weekend in 100 plus daytime heat 90s at night plus the many hours from desert trips over the winter.

I did have the fuel gauge leak thats about the only prob i also replced one receptacle with a 30 amp rv plug(they do put all power 30 amps to one plug).It finally went out this past summer while on vacation but i fell i got my 259 bucks worth.Mine stopped putting out voltage motor ran fine no probs.Later at home it looks like the fan blade at the bottom of the generator head was broken up and in many small pieces.

When the duropower went down i needed a new gen that day i was at lake powell and i knew in town there was a checker auto so i went and bought one at the time it was the best option all ready to go with rv plug.just add gas and oil been happy with it ran it a full weekend last month at glamis fri til sun morn.

[MrWizard]

more chinese ? ..... Onans available from costco

check this out looks like a Kipor too me.



http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?prodid=11217702&hierPath=114*20758*20760*&whse=BC&topnav=&...

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Productgroup.aspx?Prodid=11218796&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=〈=en-US

Cummins or Onan , depends on whose managing the sales, has really jumped on the band wagon.

[professor95]

blkfe wrote:
If Ford built a generator I would buy it..as long as its not a diesel..LOL

Uh, actually I believe they do. At least there is a generator with Ford's name on it. It puts out about 20KW, enough to keep a normal dairy farmer milking when the power goes down. It hooks to the PTO on a big Ford tractor, which is a diesel.

[blkfe]

If Ford built a generator I would buy it..as long as its not a deisel..LOL

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Prof95 - As usual you have imparted great information!
Besides the content - and sharing your mechanical/electrical talents . . .
compliments are in order for "keyboarding" skills, LOL!

Keep up the good work!
JC

[Wally_Gator]

Regarding voltage regulators and brushes..
My MaxTools generator quit on me and the company immediately sent me the Voltage regulator and 2 sets of brushes. From what they told me they have seen more problems with the brushes than the Voltage regulators. Now I have a spare VR that works and a spare set of brushes.

[professor95]

I have no so called "bone" to pick with DuroPower.

I have no first hand experience with their products.

Nothing would please me more than to welcome them as a new, customer oriented supplier of available and durable Chinese built gensets at a value price.

Every time a new brand appears this forum has endeavored to investigate and evaluate both the company and product. The forum has become in many ways a Chinese Genset Consumer Testing and Report Group.

We have in the past two years identified companies and brands that one should use caution in dealing with.

The early Nikota was identified as less than satisfactory for RV use - a few weeks later it went bankrupt.

ELIM International, the company that got the ball rolling with the ELM3000, dropped the ball on customer service and warranty issues. They also changed to a new supplier and did not offer the full wattage to a single outlet. The forum identified the problems and it became buyer beware.

When Champion came on the scene their initial reviews were extremely low. They did not have a full power at 120 volt provision and used a questionable circuit breaker configuration. Ironically, Champion took note, changed their product and came on strong with customer service to the RV community.

Harbor Freight, Cummings and Homier all passed muster with their JD built 3,000 watt units. Warranty and service were acceptable, but sometimes slow.

PowerPro and PowerWise also made the top 5 list on the forum. But again, once the stores (PepBoys and COSTCO) were out of the warranty & service loop some issues developed.

UST was interesting. Little additional data has been collected. Same is true for the Big Lot's brand of a similar genset.

The Chinese built Onan 3,500 watt Homesite is as expected getting good reviews. Backed by the Onan/Cummings dealership network, warranty, parts and service should be top-notch. As noted, buyers are paing a higher price for the name and network.

Now DuroPower is on the scene. They have a really good web site with an extensive listing of different models available. They have a broad range of parts pictured on-line. Outward appearances make one believe they are a massive distributor with warehouses of gensets ready to ship. Feedback from folks on the forum is beginning to suggest a different picture about the company. The info is being shared because WE collectively make up the largest single support and evaluation group for Chinese gensets in the world. If we identify a good company and product, we need to share it so that others can benefit from our experiences. Same is true if we find one less than good.

That's what it is all about, guys. Their ain't no Chevy vs.
Ford or gas vs. diesel wars on this forum!

[OleMissTailgate]

I think you are correct on the service issues. I started calling and emailing on Monday morning and as of Thursday morning all I know is that the only person that can help me is out of the office on personal leave. It must be a small company because I asked for the manager and the service manager and the general manager are the same person. Just remember YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

[kingman]

Thank's Professor. I already have a chinese genset that is very similar to some of the early ones.It has 120/240 with no selector switch.I rewired it for 120 only but sometimes when starting my a/c on my rockwood 8296ss it trips off for a few seconds without tripping the breaker.I figure it is the voltage regulator but figured id get a champion as parts are easy to get.My genny still works good and only has about 40 hours on it.It says built by Powerful Machinery and electronics ltd on the decal and my dealer is no longer around.There is no name brand on the machine other than that, but the v/r on the champion almost looks identical from what i have seen on this forum.Thank you for taking the time to reply to me and i will check out our new costco here when it opens at the end of november. Thank's again Shane