3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[hgarraway]

professor95 wrote:
The thing that has impressed me the most over the past year has been the courtesy and positive mannerism of this group. Speaks well for the RV community, doesn't it?

Randy

Professor,

I do believe that it is you who has set the tone and 'mannerism' for this thread through your polite, scholarly (but understandable 🙂 posts, illustrations, and replies. You take the cake!

[MrWizard]

Excellent thread, Professor

it has helped many people.

[camperdave]

Someone PM'd me for a more detailed description of my mod to the Champion generator (the one prior to the 30a TT plug version shown yesterday, that would have been nice! bought a week too early I guess...). Here's a quick photo after the mod.


Looking at the terminal strip from upper most being terminal 1, lowest being terminal 4, here is how it's now wired.

Terminal 1: White (from winding A), Dark Blue (from winding B), Light blue (to panel and 20a circuit breaker).

Terminal 2: Dark Brown (from winding A), Red (from winding B), White (to panel and neutral of outlets).

Terminal 3: Light Brown (to panel and 15a circuit breaker), no longer connected to anything else.

Terminal 4: Not used. It was empty as delivered, still is.

Basically, the Dark Brown wire from winding A moved from Terminal 3 to Terminal 2, and the White wire from winding A moved from Terminal 2 to Terminal 1 (those two wires are paired in a sheath).

No changes at the panel, voltmeter no longer works, and only one of the two 120v outlets work, plus the twistlock.

Hope that's clearer than mud...

My total output is now limited to 20a, so I've lost a little overall power vs. the new version with a 30a TT receptacle (I assume anyway that it now uses a 30a breaker).

[Navychop]

I KNEW you were going to say that even before you posted it.

I figured you were feeding me, so I'd respond. :B

[mokanmikey]

You've created a monster!

Thanks to all for what has been accomplished !

[professor95]

Oh, by the way....... Happy birthday to us! The forum is a year old today (3/2/06). Who would have ever thought it would have lasted this long, hosted 1,835+ postings or tendered 137,858+ views. My thanks go out to the RV.net group for letting this form exist and everyone who has so willingly shared their experiences and knowledge. The thing that has impressed me the most over the past year has been the courtesy and positive mannerism of this group. Speaks well for the RV community, doesn't it?

Randy

[professor95]

Well maybe paying extra for the clean sine wave on the Kipor was worth it after all.

I KNEW you were going to say that even before you posted it.:)

Yes, if you have one of those "funkie" microwaves it was well worth it. But, I stand by my previous statements that the artifact or noise will not bother your other electrical appliances like the AC, TV, laptop, DVD player, etc.

[jwitt]

NEW RV PLUG GENSET!! NO NEED TO REWIRE.
I'm a newbe with this forum thing, so I hope I can get a picture to upload. I just picked up one of the new Champion RV model 3500 watt Gensets. I have been following the forum and was about to get the regular model and do the wiring mod. I called Champion Tech and was told that it hadn't shipped as yet, and they could not advise when it would. I later talked to their phone operator. She said it had been shipping for two weeks to the Kragen Auto Parts group. She was able to advise the new part # C46540. I checked with Kragen online searching the part number and there it was. No picture yet, but ships in 24 hours.
Im happy, it has a 120-240 switch and of course the 30 Amp RV style plug (29.6amps:)). Also, 240 twist lock, separate 120 and the 12v.
Well, I hope the picture follows correctly... JIM

[Navychop]

Well maybe paying extra for the clean sine wave on the Kipor was worth it after all.

[professor95]

Has anyone ever heard of this happeing? I purchased an Elim 3000L. So far everything works great but I have to do a wierd procedure to get the microwave to work. To get the micro to work, I have to turn the air conditioner on. As soon as the air conditioner turns on, the clock light on the micro turns on and the micro will operate normally. I don't have to keep the air conditioner on. I can turn it off imediatley and the micro stays on and works fine. I don't have to go through this procudure again until i actually turn the gen off.

This is my best guess based on similar experiences:

The AC sine wave from the 3000L with no load is most likely pretty noisy (as most of these gensets are) - meaning there is considerable artifact imposed upon the sine wave. The voltage regulator in this generator is also an AC capacitor with a diode clamp - pretty crude, but effective and cheap. The regulator cut off can be pretty sharp, even causing a dip, before the peak of the sine wave is reached. Your microwave is extremely sensitive to this noise and therefore does not know what to lock (or clock) on as far as the incoming signal.

Putting a load on the generator with the AC helps to clean up this noise and stablize the voltage regulation method mentioned above. Thus, the signal is now clean enough for your microwave to operate. Once the clock is set, I guess the microwave "remembers" until all is powered down and restarted again.

It is interesting to note that the microwave in my RV (2005 Samsung) works well off of the generator, but the clock does "double time", most likely as a result of this situation.

Diferent microwaves will react differently -

Now, remember, this is only my theory. It may be totally wrong. Some of the other electronically inclined guys on the forum may see things differently and as a result have a more logical answer.

[XR4rider]

Has anyone ever heard of this happeing? I purchased an Elim 3000L. So far everything works great but I have to do a wierd procedure to get the microwave to work. To get the micro to work, I have to turn the air conditioner on. As soon as the air conditioner turns on, the clock light on the micro turns on and the micro will operate normally. I don't have to keep the air conditioner on. I can turn it off imediatley and the micro stays on and works fine. I don't have to go through this procudure again until i actually turn the gen off.

Since I don't use the gen often and I have the ablility to use the micro when needed, I don't mind having to go through this little exercise everytime, I was just curious about all your opinions of why this is happening.

thanks for your time.

[professor95]

Is ELIM still a good choice? I see they are selling the 3600SS and 3600CL on eBay, direct from Elim. I have seen the rewiring projects mentioned on so many different gensets, I am thoroughly confused.

ELIM is an importer, not a manufacturer. When this forum was started, ELIM International was importing a generator made by the Chinese Company JungDong. It is my understanding that the products that now have the ELIM label are manufactured by a company known as Lunatop.

Both appear to be well supported products that have given many owners satisfactory service. There has been some dissatisfaction expressed on the forum that several current ELIM models do not have the ability to route full power to a single 110/120 outlet. For those owners who do not want to do an internal wiring change to the generator and intend to use it exclusively for RV service, this is a negative. But, if you are not intimidated by making one of the internal wiring changes described on this forum, they can prove to be great little units for RVers who also want the ability to run a rooftop AC from a generator.

My impression is that any of the Chinese genesets we have discussed that fall into the 3000 watt range, use the Honda GX200 engine clone and have a sound rating that does not exceed 67dB have found many happy homes and owners.

There are also several models available that use Yamaha technology. Not too many reports there (yet).

[boucher1]

CSA is Canadian Standard Association. It is the non profit organization in Canada that makes sure that products sold meet a certain level or standard. ie electrical, gas, medical, etc.
see http://www.csa.ca/Default.asp?language=english

[okiebryan]

I read the first 40 or 50 pages and then skipped to the last 15. I'm sure I missed a thing or two along the way.

Is ELIM still a good choice? I see they are selling the 3600SS and 3600CL on eBay, direct from Elim. I have seen the rewiring projects mentioned on so many different gensets, I am thoroughly confused.

How about these two? Need to be rewired to get full load? What is CSA? One of them says CSA is available.

[camperdave]

thanks professor95 and Kevin, it works! What makes it easier on the Champion generator than some others that I have read about here is that the center tap (neutral) is not connected anywhere except at the terminal strip in the generator head. I just moved the leads coming from one winding to the terminals for the other winding, and am now just using two terminals. My 240v is gone, but I have no use for that anyway.

Someday I'll go inside the panel and rewire it a bit to put the voltmeter back in service, and maybe install an RV 30a plug like someone else here did, but in the meantime I'm getting a full 20a (with generator power to spare) at both a standard household style plug, and the 4 prong twistlock.

not bad for 5 minutes of labor 🙂