Cracked frame Heartland/Lippert - Warranty but no help!

[bedpan]

Hey folks.. asking for some advice and direction. We bought a Heartland Sundance 24bh brand new in March 2019. We have had a number of issues with it since we bought. All of which we have taken care of on our own. Mainly because we were travelling at the time and it would take to long to involve warranty.

The most recent issue is fairly major and Heartland is choosing not to help.

In July we drove on a 4000km, 2400mi road trip around northern Ontario. I am fairly attentive to wheels bearing and suspension issues checking things over on most stops and breaks. On our second last day I noticed some sever wear on the inner edge of the rear drivers side tire. I looked it over and my initial thought was bearing despite having been professionally repacked earlier in the summer.

When we got home I figured out what the real issue was. The frame is cracked above the rear spring shackle. I assume this is causing a change in alignment and causing the tire to wear.

I brought it the 40km up the road nice and slow and dropped it off at our trailer dealer. Initially I was told it's out of warranty but I pointed out the 3 year structural warranty. The service manager came out and looked at it and agreed it should be under warranty. He agreed to contact Heartland and get things started despite the fact they don't do welding at the shop. During further inspection he also notice the frame on the opposite side is also cracked!

Awhile later I got a call from Heartland asking if I could bring the trailer to the USA for repair. I kinda laughed and explained how this was not an option for a few major reasons. First Covid means I am not allowed to cross the border and second the trailer is in no condition to be towed. I tried asking questions about what would happen, concerns about how major this is and the fact it was wrecking our family holidays. They had no info but agreed to dig into it and call me back.

I informed our dealer about the call and he informed me that the repair is outside of the scope of what they are able to repair even bringing in a welder and that he has pushed back on Heartland saying he refuses to accept any liability from the repair. He has not said it but seems to be inferring this is beyond welding on a patch.

So another call from Heartland yesterday and they advise me I need to find my own company to repair it and have them contact Lippert for instructions on how to. I pushed back on them telling him that I should not be responsible to find ways to farm out there repairs for them. Heartlands solution? He sent me an email with 3 other trailer dealers in the area and lipperts phone number. I suggested that if they really want to see the trailer it would not be overly expensive to have it flatbedded down to Indiana. Based on the number of trucks I see coming up here with new trailers I would assume they are running back empty. No dice. Charlie says talk to Lippert. So Heartland is refusing to help at this point and when I tell Heartland this I get "Well I sent you an email..."

So we are camping this week. Sleeping in a tent instead of our brand new trailer. So calling anyone is tough with very limited signal on the park. Tomorrow we are heading home and I need to call everyone involved to try and find an action plan....

Lippert is aware of the issue. In fact they have a white paper on how to repair it. My dealer is of the mind that the shackles used were to small and putting to much stress on the frame. I understand the position he is in but as the end customer I feel very stuck right now.

In reading around it seems Lippert usually sends out there own welders flying them to sites to make the repairs when this comes up.

I am at a bit of a loss as to how and who to push to fix this.... For info sake we are in Canada on the east side of the GTA and the dealer is in Peterborough.

Your thoughts as appreciated!

Crack I noticed -
Note the rust on the 18 month old frame. I am told its normal..

Crack the dealer noticed -
I wire brushed and painted this side of the frame earlier in on the trip...

[dedmiston]

Hey everyone. This is an interesting discussion and I appreciate how constructive the feedback has been so far.

Unfortunately there's one taboo angle to this topic and it's non-negotiable: Legal

Please refrain from any discussion of lawyers, lawsuits, or consumer agencies. Any further Legal discussion will result in the thread being deleted for good and without further warnings.

Forum Rules wrote:
Posts are not allowed in which a local, state, or federal consumer action board and/or legal counsel is/have been involved. This includes posts related to future, ongoing or past lawsuits.

[bedpan]

Thanks Joe,

I posted a link to the same document a few pages back..

How was your cracks compared to mine? How are things holding up? You happy with it over all?

joebedford wrote:
There IS a procedure for repairing frames at the spring hanger. Ask how I know.

Everybody's different but if it were me, I'd take the procedure to my local welding shop and get them to do it. Won't be more than a few hundred dollars. Yes, I know it's under warranty, but sometimes...

Lippert Frame repair procedure

[joebedford]

There IS a procedure for repairing frames at the spring hanger. Ask how I know.

Everybody's different but if it were me, I'd take the procedure to my local welding shop and get them to do it. Won't be more than a few hundred dollars. Yes, I know it's under warranty, but sometimes...

Lippert Frame repair procedure

[bedpan]

Thanks Doug,

I will see what my discussions tomorrow bring. Your suggestions are likely my backup if they do not come to task.

dougrainer wrote:
LCI DOES NOT build any RV's. They just supply a LOT of the components that are used in the build. LCI will stand by the Frame. It is just getting LCI and Heartland to get together and get it done for you. I will tell you, to get the best result, you HAVE to do this
1. Type up a letter with your PIC of the VIN sticker included and all pics of your problem. Your letter states what is wrong and you cannot get any help from Heartland or LCI
2. DO NOT GET NASTY (at this point)
3. Try to include all pertinent info in your letter. Include copies of your Sales agreement.
4. Send the same letter and pic copies to the President of Heartland and the President of LCI.
5. Send the same to Heartland Customer service referencing your copies to the Presidents.
6. Send them Certified----This IS important. You will have a record of them getting the letters
7. Just ask that they take care of your problem without you having to jump thru all sorts of hoops.
8. TRUST ME. This will get a response. Doug

[dougrainer]

LCI DOES NOT build any RV's. They just supply a LOT of the components that are used in the build. LCI will stand by the Frame. It is just getting LCI and Heartland to get together and get it done for you. I will tell you, to get the best result, you HAVE to do this
1. Type up a letter with your PIC of the VIN sticker included and all pics of your problem. Your letter states what is wrong and you cannot get any help from Heartland or LCI
2. DO NOT GET NASTY (at this point)
3. Try to include all pertinent info in your letter. Include copies of your Sales agreement.
4. Send the same letter and pic copies to the President of Heartland and the President of LCI.
5. Send the same to Heartland Customer service referencing your copies to the Presidents.
6. Send them Certified----This IS important. You will have a record of them getting the letters
7. Just ask that they take care of your problem without you having to jump thru all sorts of hoops.
8. TRUST ME. This will get a response. Doug

[bedpan]

Chum lee wrote:
I agree with Doug. The repair document(s) appear to be prepared by Lippert. Clearly, Heartland/Lippert are both aware of the fault(s), hence, the repair documents exist. However, in the world of engineering, sometimes one company gives another company, (usually a supplier) whats called a "performance spec." These are general specifications which lack detail and require the supplier to provide some design work. If that's the case here, both companies could share some partial responsibility. Just a guess.

Was this RV built AND sold initially in the USA? As I understand, it's now in Canada. Without reading the terms of the warranty, there could be "across the border" legal issues which are further described the the text of the warranty.

Per the drawings, Lippert provides a part number for the repair parts. If you could get the repair parts package in full, I wouldn't have problem finding a certified welder to install them. (you should be fully reimbursed for your expenses in doing this) This isn't rocket science. You will be possibly opening a can of worms should there be additional issues, but at least you could safely move on from your present stalemate. Good luck to you.

Chum lee

Missed this one in my big reply..

The trailer was Bought in Canada new from a Heartland dealer. There should be no issues as far as Warranty is concerned. That said I have not found a definitive answer as to how long the frame is warrantied.

My next step is to try and talk to Lippert and the Dealer tomorrow and see if we can get things moving. Lippert may come to bat and have some suggestions on qualified repair places and we can sort out how to get the trailer there.

We shall see.. I am just hoping I can find time in my work day to actually make some phone calls.

[bedpan]

GDS-3950BH wrote:

And there you have it......Lippert even has SOP's and assigned number parts in place. Sort of makes one think why the reinforcement plate and tubes are not used when fabbing their junk to begin with.
They're simply gambling on folks not using the rig enough during the warranty period for the issues to crop up.

This... Based on what I have seen and read its just letting the problem fester and hope warranty is up before it has to be fixed.. Thats how I see it but maybe I am wrong.

dougrainer wrote:

Seems people want to blame Lippert. WRONG Company. It is Heartland. LCI just builds the frames to the SPECS that the RV Maker engineers supply. So, LCI gets the gauge metal(Heartland specs) and installs the crossmembers and hangers where the HEARTLAND engineers state to install. When LCI goes out in the field to repair frames, they Charge Back the cost to the RV Maker(Heartland). Doug

I may well be wrong but I would would assume (I know its a dangerous word), that this is a lippert designed trailer. Lippert has there own warranty on it outside of heartland which leads me to believe that heartland i just buying and reselling the trailer. If it was made for heartland on spec it would have a heartland sticker on it not lippert. Just me guessing though.

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
I finished the frame of my bus in red Rost O Leum primer, three coats then BODY SHOOTZ, four gallons worth. Zero rust 100% adhesion after 33 years. It's been on a pad for the last 12-years.

I have some questions about this but I will leave it until I get this major issue resolved first..

[MEXICOWANDERER]

I finished the frame of my bus in red Rost O Leum primer, three coats then BODY SHOOTZ, four gallons worth. Zero rust 100% adhesion after 33 years. It's been on a pad for the last 12-years.

[Chum_lee]

I agree with Doug. The repair document(s) appear to be prepared by Lippert. Clearly, Heartland/Lippert are both aware of the fault(s), hence, the repair documents exist. However, in the world of engineering, sometimes one company gives another company, (usually a supplier) whats called a "performance spec." These are general specifications which lack detail and require the supplier to provide some design work. If that's the case here, both companies could share some partial responsibility. Just a guess.

Was this RV built AND sold initially in the USA? As I understand, it's now in Canada. Without reading the terms of the warranty, there could be "across the border" legal issues which are further described the the text of the warranty.

Per the drawings, Lippert provides a part number for the repair parts. If you could get the repair parts package in full, I wouldn't have problem finding a certified welder to install them. (you should be fully reimbursed for your expenses in doing this) This isn't rocket science. You will be possibly opening a can of worms should there be additional issues, but at least you could safely move on from your present stalemate. Good luck to you.

Chum lee

[dougrainer]

GDS-3950BH wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:

bedpan wrote:
For those interested here are some documents from Lippert that I believe apply to the repair needed. Saying that as I was looking for links to post for them they appear dated..

Heartland Document - Lippert Repair
and here is one from the NHTSA but the document date is 2009
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2011/RCRIT-11V486-1111.pdf

That is basically what is needed. The break next to the bottom flange will need some additional attention. The cross pieces do the same job as the X-Factor. I made my own and bolted them in to allow removal for service above.

And there you have it......Lippert even has SOP's and assigned number parts in place. Sort of makes one think why the reinforcement plate and tubes are not used when fabbing their junk to begin with.

They're simply gambling on folks not using the rig enough during the warranty period for the issues to crop up.

Seems people want to blame Lippert. WRONG Company. It is Heartland. LCI just builds the frames to the SPECS that the RV Maker engineers supply. So, LCI gets the gauge metal(Heartland specs) and installs the crossmembers and hangers where the HEARTLAND engineers state to install. When LCI goes out in the field to repair frames, they Charge Back the cost to the RV Maker(Heartland). Doug

[Heavy_Metal_Doc]

OH48Lt wrote:
Get the repair specs and procedure from Lippert, and take it to a good frame or welding shop and get it done.

This is about the best answer I've seen in this thread. Its the awful reality of the situation.

I'd weld it all up solid and then have trailer specialist go over the alignment of the axles.

[GDS-3950BH]

Bert the Welder wrote:

GDS-3950BH wrote:

Bert the Welder wrote:
Yeah, no, don't do the DIY welding thing. Not only could void your warranty but also could void your insurance as well as make the failure worse.
Drives me nuts we people suggest someone just fire up a buzz box and start blazing away like they're using a glue gun on a Christmas ornament.
This work should be done by a professional weldor and one chosen by the manufacturer, not you.

You do not have to be a "professional welder" to lean how to weld.

The OP's warranty was essentially worthless the day he purchased the trailer as stated in his posting. Lippert will use every play in their playbook to get out of warranty claims as will a lot of the RV manufacturers, the OP is not the only person to learn that the hard way.

Could void your insurance? Come on man. By that logic you should not change brake pads on your car nor put new shingles on the roof of your home yourself.

Considering you have to learn to weld before becoming a professional weldor, you seem to be confused.
Anyone can get a couple of pieces of metal to stick together. It's the morons that think this qualifies them to do anything more then weld garden ornaments that are my issue when it comes to making proper repairs on something just slightly more critical. Like a couple thousands pounds, hurtling down the road with other people around.
And if you don't know how to properly change your brake pads or shingle a roof, then no, you shouldn't do it and yes, if you do it incorrectly, it can void your insurance coverage.

LOL......Semantics.

I know welders with stacks of cert papers who can not weld a garden ornament together. Have seen their "professional" work rejected so many times on jobs in the building and heavy industrial sectors I can't count them all.

Plenty of unqualified roofers and mechanics around also. I have yet to see or hear of anyone's auto or homeowners insurance being voided over it.

[GDS-3950BH]

Lynnmor wrote:

bedpan wrote:
For those interested here are some documents from Lippert that I believe apply to the repair needed. Saying that as I was looking for links to post for them they appear dated..

Heartland Document - Lippert Repair
and here is one from the NHTSA but the document date is 2009
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2011/RCRIT-11V486-1111.pdf

That is basically what is needed. The break next to the bottom flange will need some additional attention. The cross pieces do the same job as the X-Factor. I made my own and bolted them in to allow removal for service above.

And there you have it......Lippert even has SOP's and assigned number parts in place. Sort of makes one think why the reinforcement plate and tubes are not used when fabbing their junk to begin with.

They're simply gambling on folks not using the rig enough during the warranty period for the issues to crop up.

[Bert_the_Welder]

Sounds like you're heading in the right direction Bedpan.
Suggestions that you are being uncooperative by not finding places to do the repairs are pretty ridiculous. Understanding there are increased challenges due to C19 in terms of things taking a bit longer are reasonable. Shirking off responsibility onto you for part of the warranty repair work is just crazy. Like you said, you're not qualified to make determinations regarding a shops competency. And nor should you have to be. Smells a bit like Heartland is looking to lay it on you if the repair doesn't work. Hopefully Lippert is more responsive and responsible.
And yes, welding qualifications vary from Province to Province. (Something I find strange but is what we get when the country operates as little fiefdoms.)
But yes, they need to be certified.

[Bert_the_Welder]

GDS-3950BH wrote:

Bert the Welder wrote:
Yeah, no, don't do the DIY welding thing. Not only could void your warranty but also could void your insurance as well as make the failure worse.
Drives me nuts we people suggest someone just fire up a buzz box and start blazing away like they're using a glue gun on a Christmas ornament.
This work should be done by a professional weldor and one chosen by the manufacturer, not you.

You do not have to be a "professional welder" to lean how to weld.

The OP's warranty was essentially worthless the day he purchased the trailer as stated in his posting. Lippert will use every play in their playbook to get out of warranty claims as will a lot of the RV manufacturers, the OP is not the only person to learn that the hard way.

Could void your insurance? Come on man. By that logic you should not change brake pads on your car nor put new shingles on the roof of your home yourself.

Considering you have to learn to weld before becoming a professional weldor, you seem to be confused.
Anyone can get a couple of pieces of metal to stick together. It's the morons that think this qualifies them to do anything more then weld garden ornaments that are my issue when it comes to making proper repairs on something just slightly more critical. Like a couple thousands pounds, hurtling down the road with other people around.
And if you don't know how to properly change your brake pads or shingle a roof, then no, you shouldn't do it and yes, if you do it incorrectly, it can void your insurance coverage.