Electrical

[Rickster2]

I have a 2022 Grand Design Momemtum fifth wheel toy hauler with a residential refrigerator. The camper is 50 amp but I have a 30 amp service at home to plug the unit into to be able to run the refrigerator and one A/C unit. The 30 amp service is connected to a double 30 amp breaker that has a couple of out buildings attached to the other leg of the 30 amp breaker. There is a small refrigerator in one of the buildings but nothing else except mostly lights used periodically in the buildings. I’m having trouble with the refrigerator compressor in the camper shutting down periodically with one A/C unit running and am being told the “energy management system” is shutting it down because a 30 amp service is not enough. If I attach the camper to a single 30 amp breaker, will this help the situation. I find it hard to believe a 30 amp service will not sufficiently operate one A/C unit and the refrigerator but am not an electrician so asking for advice. Thank you in advance

[LouLawrence]

Additionally, while 50 Amp service is split 240V with 120V on each leg, the service can be set to provide 120V as well as 240V (let's now argue the exact volages) to individual appliances.

[enblethen]

I refer you NEC article 551-46(C) for proper identification. RVs are required when manufactured to have the correct label indication voltage and amperage.

[wa8yxm]

enblethen wrote:
A 50-shore power is not 240-volt, it is 120/240 four wire.

Well a cook might call that "240 volts--Divided" which by way is exactly what it is. technically..

The Neutral wire is a center tap on the transformer winding so it's literaly 240 volt Divided

But That's a digression and if you find this confusing in any way. Simply disregard this post. I sometimes design power supplies that use transformers like that but at lower voltages (Like 18 volts center tapped.. do a bit of flimming and flamming and you got a really nice 12 volt regulated supply and high current too.
(Flmming and flamming is perfectly proper Design work) I split the windings. rewired in parallel. added a full wave bridge and regulators... Worked great..> Still does)

[enblethen]

A 50-shore power is not 240-volt, it is 120/240 four wire.

[wa8yxm]

ktmrfs wrote:

wa8yxm wrote:

Rickster2 wrote:
I’m having trouble with the refrigerator compressor in the camper shutting down periodically with one A/C unit running and am being told the “energy management system” is shutting it down because a 30 amp service is not enough. If I attach the camper to a single 30 amp breaker, will this help the situation. I find it hard to believe a 30 amp service will not sufficiently operate one A/C unit and the refrigerator but am not an electrician so asking for advice. Thank you in advance

You need to understand how the Energy Manager (I assume it's an Intelletec) works... It is not voltage that shuts things down it is current. Now.. here is how it works on a 50 amp RV.
If you are plugged into True 50 amps service (two legs L-1 and L-2 120 volt either leg to neutral and 240 volt leg to leg) the EMS sees the 200+ leg to leg (not sure what the cut off is) and says "Oh 50 amp service.. Snooze time) (It shuts down and does nothing. lets power pass to everything)

But if it sees zero volts leg to leg (or very little) Then it thinks "30 amps I need to keep an eye on the amperage" and yes.... the A/C draws around 13-15 running and that don't leave much for other stuff.

Will switching to a dual breaker system fix it?
IF. the two breakers on on different legs yes. then the EMS will think it's hooked to 50 amps and "Go to sleep"

NOTE you have an indicator "Amps" (it only works on 30 amp sites) keep an eye on it and you may find another load that's drawing
(IT too shuts off when on 50 amps for its monitoring the neutral line and amps on that line means very little on 50 amps)

My 30A EMS will shut down on
1) undervoltage something around 104V
2) open ground
3) open neutral
4) frequency way off from 60Hz
5) reversed hot/neutral
6) over voltage, something around 132V will also not turn on with 240V on my 30A system
7) surge protection

It does NOT shut down on overcurrent, it leaves that to the breaker system. Not seen any 30A systems that do anything about current other than displaying current.

haven't looked at 50A so don't know what they do.

I assume you did not read the part of my original post where I said I assumed Intellect.. Intellect EMS manages the power usage based on Current exactly as I described.

Progressive industries also makes an EMS. and Energy monitor system that operates... EXACTLY AS YOU DESCRIBE.

Both of them use exactly the same name to describe two entirely different devices doing two entirely different things.

Since I know both systems (Had a competitors on the 2nd) I am not confused but I do understand the confusion.

[rhagfo]

Rickster2 wrote:
I have a 2022 Grand Design Momemtum fifth wheel toy hauler with a residential refrigerator. The camper is 50 amp but I have a 30 amp service at home to plug the unit into to be able to run the refrigerator and one A/C unit. The 30 amp service is connected to a double 30 amp breaker that has a couple of out buildings attached to the other leg of the 30 amp breaker. There is a small refrigerator in one of the buildings but nothing else except mostly lights used periodically in the buildings. I’m having trouble with the refrigerator compressor in the camper shutting down periodically with one A/C unit running and am being told the “energy management system” is shutting it down because a 30 amp service is not enough. If I attach the camper to a single 30 amp breaker, will this help the situation. I find it hard to believe a 30 amp service will not sufficiently operate one A/C unit and the refrigerator but am not an electrician so asking for advice. Thank you in advance

Your EMS will not shut down individual items like the refrigerator and leave the A/C running. If it shut down it should show an error code on the EMS display?
How far from the panel is your 30 amp outlet from the for the RV.
If the distance is too far more amps drawn, the less voltage over a long wire. My PI EMS shuts down at 103 volts, the compressor may shut down at a slightly higher voltage.

Your best plan would be to install a dedicated 30amp 120 volt, or 50 amp 240 volt outlet for the trailer.

[SoonDockin]

If both sides of the 30 amp dual are linked (aka both must go on or off together) then its a 240v circuit. If the sides can be flipped independently then its a likely a space saving dual single pole breaker intended for 120v circuits.

[enblethen]

Be careful not be confused by breaker information. Do not confuse a twin breaker with a double pole breaker. Twin breakers come in different configuration to allow use of smaller sized breakers to increase breaker capacity. They come in single and double pole.
Single pole breakers are used for 120-volt circuits. Double pole breakers are for 120/240-volt circuits

[ktmrfs]

wa8yxm wrote:

Rickster2 wrote:
I’m having trouble with the refrigerator compressor in the camper shutting down periodically with one A/C unit running and am being told the “energy management system” is shutting it down because a 30 amp service is not enough. If I attach the camper to a single 30 amp breaker, will this help the situation. I find it hard to believe a 30 amp service will not sufficiently operate one A/C unit and the refrigerator but am not an electrician so asking for advice. Thank you in advance

You need to understand how the Energy Manager (I assume it's an Intelletec) works... It is not voltage that shuts things down it is current. Now.. here is how it works on a 50 amp RV.
If you are plugged into True 50 amps service (two legs L-1 and L-2 120 volt either leg to neutral and 240 volt leg to leg) the EMS sees the 200+ leg to leg (not sure what the cut off is) and says "Oh 50 amp service.. Snooze time) (It shuts down and does nothing. lets power pass to everything)

But if it sees zero volts leg to leg (or very little) Then it thinks "30 amps I need to keep an eye on the amperage" and yes.... the A/C draws around 13-15 running and that don't leave much for other stuff.

Will switching to a dual breaker system fix it?
IF. the two breakers on on different legs yes. then the EMS will think it's hooked to 50 amps and "Go to sleep"

NOTE you have an indicator "Amps" (it only works on 30 amp sites) keep an eye on it and you may find another load that's drawing
(IT too shuts off when on 50 amps for its monitoring the neutral line and amps on that line means very little on 50 amps)

My 30A EMS will shut down on
1) undervoltage something around 104V
2) open ground
3) open neutral
4) frequency way off from 60Hz
5) reversed hot/neutral
6) over voltage, something around 132V will also not turn on with 240V on my 30A system
7) surge protection

It does NOT shut down on overcurrent, it leaves that to the breaker system. Not seen any 30A systems that do anything about current other than displaying current.

haven't looked at 50A so don't know what they do.

[LouLawrence]

enblethen wrote:
Sounds like you have a multi-wire branch circuit with one leg to RV and one to outbuilding. This is not good.
If some of the outbuilding is on RV leg it could be overloaded.
Installing a30 amp dedicated to the RV receptacle is best solution. Make sure the 30-amp TT receptacle is wired 120 volts and not 240!

^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^

[wa8yxm]

Rickster2 wrote:
I’m having trouble with the refrigerator compressor in the camper shutting down periodically with one A/C unit running and am being told the “energy management system” is shutting it down because a 30 amp service is not enough. If I attach the camper to a single 30 amp breaker, will this help the situation. I find it hard to believe a 30 amp service will not sufficiently operate one A/C unit and the refrigerator but am not an electrician so asking for advice. Thank you in advance

You need to understand how the Energy Manager (I assume it's an Intelletec) works... It is not voltage that shuts things down it is current. Now.. here is how it works on a 50 amp RV.
If you are plugged into True 50 amps service (two legs L-1 and L-2 120 volt either leg to neutral and 240 volt leg to leg) the EMS sees the 200+ leg to leg (not sure what the cut off is) and says "Oh 50 amp service.. Snooze time) (It shuts down and does nothing. lets power pass to everything)

But if it sees zero volts leg to leg (or very little) Then it thinks "30 amps I need to keep an eye on the amperage" and yes.... the A/C draws around 13-15 running and that don't leave much for other stuff.

Will switching to a dual breaker system fix it?
IF. the two breakers on on different legs yes. then the EMS will think it's hooked to 50 amps and "Go to sleep"

NOTE you have an indicator "Amps" (it only works on 30 amp sites) keep an eye on it and you may find another load that's drawing
(IT too shuts off when on 50 amps for its monitoring the neutral line and amps on that line means very little on 50 amps)

[Housted]

A 50 amp outlet does not have to be a twin 50 amp breaker....I used a twin 30 amp breaker for my 50 amp RV for years without any problem.

Housted

[wildtoad]

Okay, I may be the only one to say this, but since you have a 50 amp fiver, upgrade/install the outlet to 50 amp. Problem solved.

[enblethen]

Sounds like you have a multi-wire branch circuit with one leg to RV and one to outbuilding. This is not good.
If some of the outbuilding is on RV leg it could be overloaded.
Installing a30 amp dedicated to the RV receptacle is best solution. Make sure the 30-amp TT receptacle is wired 120 volts and not 240!