Freedom 458- Replace or consider a different unit

[NHRA_Racer]

It appears that the charging side of my Freedom 458 unit went out. I have spoken to an authorized repair center and they expect a $300 or so charge.

In thinking about this, I may decide to replace the unit and have the other one fixed for a backup. When I have no 12v, the coach is pretty much dead in the water. Also, I figure if I have a backup, the new one will never break! 🙂

My question is this-- is there a better alternative to the Freedom 458? I have searched the posts and it seems like this unit is in a lot of units which makes me think that it is the standard.

Thoughts on a different unit?

Thanks for the input.

[bukzin]

docj wrote:
I have the ME RC remote and left the charging voltage at the default settings. I saw no reason to change what was recommended.

I have two battery banks, 4 GC Trojans and 2 twelve volt chassis batts.

What charge voltage might I set my ME2012 and ME RC to?

[docj]

I have the ME RC remote and left the charging voltage at the default settings. I saw no reason to change what was recommended.

[bukzin]

docj wrote:

Bill.Winegard wrote:

During the sleep period it completely stops charging the battery as a way of reducing water loss.

That appears to be what our new inverter does as well. While I don't see any documentation as to time, it does go into a state where it shows 0.0 amps of charging. Then, from time to time it kicks in at some random rate but never the full 150 amp which appears to be a step higher than float. We have AGM batteries so water is not an issue but I think this charging pattern will provide a better overall experience than our old 458. I do know that the new 150 amp charger and the way the charging cycles are handled, substantially reduces the recharging time when we are dry camping.

It's pretty clear that electronics have made significant strides in the past decade. Another thing I noticed about my new unit is that if you have the charger off for any reason it starts back up with a minute or two of rapidly ramping the charge rate up and down from zero to 150A. I think what it's doing is determining how the batteries react so it can then select an appropriate charge rate, rather than always starting from bulk charge and going forwards from there like the old Freedom 458 used to do. As you said, Bill, these little things should improve overall battery performance and lifetime.

Do you have the newer remote from Magnum or the old ME RC ?


Where did you set the charge voltage feeding your battery banks?

I have read some folks are dialing up the output around 14.7v or so.

Thx

[time2roll]

NHRA_Racer wrote:
So, I take the coach to an RV tech to install. Several friends have used this shop (and the particular mechanic) before and he does the install.

No subpanel installed. He says one was not needed and I can't see exactly in the manual where it is required.

Should I be worried?

I will say that it was really nice to see the monitor say "float charge" after fighting charging issues for so long!

Heading to Bristol Dragway Tuesday for the NHRA Junior Dragster Eastern Conference finals with my kids and I really don't need any problems.

Just watch what is on. Water heater and fridge will run your battery down fairly quick and silent.

[MrWizard]

i have defunct freedom-10
and there is NO internal sub panel and branch circuits
one hardwired input, one hardwired output
the input came from the main breaker panel
the output went to ONE circuit feeding (4) duplex outlets and the 120v residential lights, the freedom had a 20amp push button circuit breaker

i haven't seen everything, never will
but i haven't see an inverter with sub-panel built in

[docj]

MrWizard wrote:
was the old install for the 'whole house'
if so the inverter was between the shore cord and the breakers
and the new one is in the same place
thetefore everything is still prtotected by the same breakers as before

if the old install was for limited circuits,the inverter is fed by that breaker and feeds only those circuits
no problem

sub panel is used to isolate circuits like the water heater and fridge or exsisting converter when adding a/new whole house install

The old Xantrex would have had a 30A input breaker and it contained a built-in subpanel with a 15A and a 20A breaker. His new installation lacks the subpanel so the branch circuits are no longer protected by anything other than the 30A input breaker. So contrary to your statement, everything is NOT still protected as before. There are branch circuits that are only capable of carrying 15 or 20 amps that are "protected" by a 30A breaker. That violates the National Electric Code and is unsafe.

This is a serious safety matter and it would make sense if people refrained from offering advice unless they understood the issue.

[MrWizard]

was the old install for the 'whole house'
if so the inverter was between the shore cord and the breakers
and the new one is in the same place
thetefore everything is still prtotected by the same breakers as before

if the old install was for limited circuits,the inverter is fed by that breaker and feeds only those circuits
no problem

sub panel is used to isolate circuits like the water heater and fridge or exsisting converter when adding a/new whole house install

[docj]

NHRA_Racer wrote:
So, I take the coach to an RV tech to install. Several friends have used this shop (and the particular mechanic) before and he does the install.

No subpanel installed. He says one was not needed and I can't see exactly in the manual where it is required.

Should I be worried?

Here's the situation you have now. On the input side the Magnum has a 30A breaker protecting it. The wiring to the inverter is probably 8AWG cable.

On the output side you have circuits wired with 12AWG or 14AWG. Those circuits used to have the breakers in the Xantrex's subpanel protecting them. Now there is nothing protecting them except the 30A breaker on the input.

IMHO this was installed incorrectly. Nowhere in the National Electric Code can you have an incoming service connected to wires of thinner gauge without having a subpanel with breakers protecting them.

You have a significant risk of fire the way things are currently wired. You could put 30A through the output circuit wires before the input breaker would trip. That's dangerous.

By way of comparison, in my install 8AWG cable is used from the Magnum's output to the subpanel. That cable is rated at the full 30A rating of the input breaker. That way if there was a fault ahead of the subpanel the wire could take the load until the input breaker tripped.

[wolfe10]

A sub panel is the BEST way to distribute inverter output, but not the only way.

It is best because it is basically idiot-proof. Only those circuits you determine should be powered by the inverter (or shore/generator power) are downstream of the inverter.

[NHRA_Racer]

So, I take the coach to an RV tech to install. Several friends have used this shop (and the particular mechanic) before and he does the install.

No subpanel installed. He says one was not needed and I can't see exactly in the manual where it is required.

Should I be worried?

I will say that it was really nice to see the monitor say "float charge" after fighting charging issues for so long!

Heading to Bristol Dragway Tuesday for the NHRA Junior Dragster Eastern Conference finals with my kids and I really don't need any problems.

[docj]

NHRA_Racer wrote:
Thanks Joel. I have the limited skills to wire a subpanel but I want to make sure I know what am I protecting with the breakers? Assuming the AC and the DC in to the unit. If this is correct, what size breakers? 30 amp. Reading the DC Overcurrent protection section in the manual has me confused.

I used two 20A breakers in the subpanel since that is consistent with the wiring in my MH and the entire inverter is handled by a 30A breaker.

I tend to agree with the post that suggests you get a tech to install the inverter if you aren't entirely comfortable with installing the sub-panel. It's really only a 1-2 hour job for someone who know what they're doing (that includes removal of the old inverter). Better to be safe.

[TechWriter]

NHRA_Racer wrote:
Thanks Joel. I have the limited skills to wire a subpanel but I want to make sure I know what am I protecting with the breakers? Assuming the AC and the DC in to the unit. If this is correct, what size breakers? 30 amp. Reading the DC Overcurrent protection section in the manual has me confused.

While you will certainly not lack for advice and help on this forum, the kind of questions you're asking indicate to me that you should have a pro (local RV service center, electrician, etc) do your install.

I did a swap like yours and while it may seem easy, you could easily hurt yourself and/or your RV.

[NHRA_Racer]

Thanks Joel. I have the limited skills to wire a subpanel but I want to make sure I know what am I protecting with the breakers? Assuming the AC and the DC in to the unit. If this is correct, what size breakers? 30 amp. Reading the DC Overcurrent protection section in the manual has me confused.

[docj]

The MS2812 will fit almost exactly into the footprint of the Xantrex. It does not have a built-in subpanel but it was easy to go to Lowes and buy a small box that would hold 2 breakers. But that was the only change that was needed at the inverter. The cable connecting the remote unit to the main box is the same so just swap out the new remote for the old one. The battery temperature cable is different but it is not required; I discovered that the temperature cable on my Xantrex had been disconnected by a previous owner and it had not been functioning anyway. Magnum says the sensor will improve battery charging but is not mandatory.