Gas or Electric (residential) Refrigerator?

[DryCamper11]

Six months ago we were in a head on accident that destroyed our RV and despite still being shell shocked we're now considering having a new one built to our specs.

The last 3 trips in the old Beast had multiple 3-4 week boondocking periods (no connections of any type) and the new coach needs to allow us to do the same.

The wife firmly wants the same old propane fridge we used for years, but everyone seems to be buying residential fridges today. Is it practical to boondock for 3-4 weeks with a residential R in New England/Canada?

Obviously 8 6 volts minimum, possibly 12, but initially we'd have no solar and rely on gen and inverter. We'll have 180 A of DC charging capability. Later we'll travel to the high sun lands of the Southwest, and probably add solar then.

I've read lots of comments, but I've had the smartest advice from this forum. I'll admit I also lean towards propane, as I've had good luck over the last 45 years using it, but I've read of many with problems, and those selling the coach seem kind of shocked we're putting a propane R in this type of coach.

Comments welcome.

[John___Angela]

Almot wrote:

John & Angela wrote:
Solar is so cheap that putting 600 or 800 watts on the roof more than justifies the added performance and space in a residential.

Yes, total cost of a system over 400W is cheap-er not due to 24V panels prices, but quality MPPT controllers still cost the same.

800W won't fit on probably half of the trailers that you see around.
Flat 600W with res fridge is only enough in summer and if it's not some place like PNW or BC. People with power habits similar to yours - toaster, MW, satellite internet and TV - will likely find flat 600W with res fridge insufficient even in SoCal, even in summer. Besides, in sunny places you (usually) get plenty of heat in spring/summer/fall, and then even if you don't run AC, you're running all the fans on high setting 24 hours, 2-3A @12V per fan.

I think your numbers are fairly realistic and your points are all valid. For someone wanting a complete generator free experience, or at least for power hogs like us, a propane fridge is a better choice. Sucks though, because they all pale in comparison to compressor fridges.

Cheers.

[Almot]

John & Angela wrote:
Solar is so cheap that putting 600 or 800 watts on the roof more than justifies the added performance and space in a residential.

Yes, total cost of a system over 400W is cheap-er not due to 24V panels prices, but quality MPPT controllers still cost the same.

800W won't fit on probably half of the trailers that you see around.
Flat 600W with res fridge is only enough in summer and if it's not some place like PNW or BC. People with power habits similar to yours - toaster, MW, satellite internet and TV - will likely find flat 600W with res fridge insufficient even in SoCal, even in summer. Besides, in sunny places you (usually) get plenty of heat in spring/summer/fall, and then even if you don't run AC, you're running all the fans on high setting 24 hours, 2-3A @12V per fan.

[John___Angela]

timmac wrote:

John & Angela wrote:

Stefonius wrote:
I will NEVER buy an RV without an LPG fridge. Not only do we boondock at times, but I like the convenience of being able to cool the refrigerator a day in advance of a trip while the fifth wheel is parked in a lot without electricity.

Being forcibly tied to utilities for basic functionality isn't what RVing is about in my opinion.

Although those are valid reasons, a robust solar system (now a days cheap) will allow pre-cooling of your fridge. And with a residential fridge you only need to pre-cool and hour before.

But why use up the solar/batt power for the fridg, the solar should be for other issues and not drained daily by the fridg.

Dry camping works best with a 2 way or 3 way fridg.

Well, everyone has different needs and tastes but for us the sheer performance of a residential far exceeds any propane RV fridge. Solar is so cheap that putting 600 or 800 watts on the roof more than justifies the added performance and space in a residential. We dry camp as well. Although we do run our genny an hour or so a day it is not the fridge that requires that but rather TV, Toaster, Computer, Microwave, Instant hot beverage water etc etc etc. We are power hogs in general so we tend to run the genny when we run high demand itens.

To each his own.

[MrWizard]

He means time needed versus allowed generator run time hours

[dougrainer]

Almot, why do you think you cannot fully charge a battery bank on Genset???? Using your logic, you cannot fully charge on Shore Power either. ALL a Genset does is supply 120 to the Power Converter or the Inverter/Charger(whichever you have) and THAT charges the battery bank. Gensets do NOT have chargers. Doug

[Almot]

timmac wrote:
But why use up the solar/batt power for the fridg, the solar should be for other issues and not drained daily by the fridg.

Dry camping works best with a 2 way or 3 way fridg.

Technically, there is nothing wrong with solar running res fridge. But, solar array has to be pretty big to do this without worrying that it might not make it on some days. Also, big enough battery bank to handle it for several dark days in row. I gave some numbers in earlier post and don't want to repeat.

In a daytime it doesn't have to come from the battery. With propane fridge I routinely have an excess of solar energy in daytime, it simply goes wasted, controller is sleeping or floating after 12 pm. I've built my solar with a 6 cu.ft 12VDC compressor fridge in mind (not 120V compressor), and it would've probably worked in summer. But I don't find my winter solar harvest to be always sufficient for a compressor even that small and that efficient - flat 500W is "almost enough" but not quite, not every day. Tilted array of this size would probably work, but I'm too lazy for roof-climbing that tilting implies. So I've come to the same conclusion as many others here - propane fridge is a reasonable alternative.

I would've gladly dumped my 2-way propane fridge in favor of a residential if it were on grid. Daily "couple of hours" of genny run for residential fridge (in addition to another 2 hours in the evening for all other loads) wouldn't work for me. Prefer making and eating my breakfast while listening to the sound of waves on a nearby beach and early birds in the trees. Maybe later, when age-related hearing loss will progress some more. Besides, I don't like it when machinery suddenly refuses to run. My truck does this sometimes (i.e. refusing to run), so I have a feeling that a genny could do this too, leaving me with un-usable fridge for weeks.

[timmac]

John & Angela wrote:

Stefonius wrote:
I will NEVER buy an RV without an LPG fridge. Not only do we boondock at times, but I like the convenience of being able to cool the refrigerator a day in advance of a trip while the fifth wheel is parked in a lot without electricity.

Being forcibly tied to utilities for basic functionality isn't what RVing is about in my opinion.

Although those are valid reasons, a robust solar system (now a days cheap) will allow pre-cooling of your fridge. And with a residential fridge you only need to pre-cool and hour before.

But why use up the solar/batt power for the fridg, the solar should be for other issues and not drained daily by the fridg.

Dry camping works best with a 2 way or 3 way fridg.

[dons2346]

Just camped off grid for a week with our Samsung. No problem keeping things running with 500 amp hours of battery. 2 hours of generator in the morning while making breakfast and then a couple of hours in the evening.

No way would we go back to a gas refer

[time2roll]

Almot wrote:
You CAN'T charge batteries 95-99% full with a generator. This takes forever. Batteries like being 95-99% full on most days.

One big benefit of lithium. Easy and fast to get to 100% and you do not even need to.

[theoldwizard1]

You can buy a large "residential" LP 'fridge or even freezer. These are sold to Amish (who do use LP) and "off-griders".

A day or two running a 120V 'fridge on batteries/solar/generator is reasonable. 5 or more, you want LP. With LP, you can always refill a spare tank.

[DryCamper11]

Almot wrote:

You CAN'T charge batteries 95-99% full with a generator. This takes forever. Batteries like being 95-99% full on most days. They will survive if they aren't, you'll have to run EQ once a week, but it's better to keep them full, they are happier then. This is one thing that solar is good at - slow charging those last 10-15% from, say, 85% to 100%. Generator - no can do.

I agree 100% that solar is ideal for slow charging that last bit from 90% on up and that lead acid batteries really prefer being kept topped up. It's a bit of a pain keeping them EQ'd and topped during the month of boondocking.

But I can get close enough for the month or so without doing too much harm to the batteries. We've got a great Trimetric for tracking SOC and can get the batts to 100‰ on the days we splurge with hot water and need to run the gen for longer periods.

Eventually we'll get solar, for exactly the reasons you mention, but not yet. I don't want to get a cheap system, then need to pull it all out to put in the system I really want a year later. One thing at a time.

I appreciate all the comments here.

[Almot]

DryCamper11 wrote:
everyone seems to be buying residential fridges today. Is it practical to boondock for 3-4 weeks with a residential R in New England/Canada?

1) Nope. Boondockers rarely favor those. But... wilderness disappears, more people spend 100% of time on pedestal, so you see more res fridges installed.

2) Doable, yes. Enjoyable - no. I would even say that it's not a good idea to do this with propane fridge, if you don't have any solar. In more details:

Why not enjoyable with res fridge:
res fridge adds 1.5-2 hours to your daily genny run. Fuel cost, noise, and you have to rely on your genny at all times. Fridge is the most important item.

Why not a good idea with propane fridge without solar:
You CAN'T charge batteries 95-99% full with a generator. This takes forever. Batteries like being 95-99% full on most days. They will survive if they aren't, you'll have to run EQ once a week, but it's better to keep them full, they are happier then. This is one thing that solar is good at - slow charging those last 10-15% from, say, 85% to 100%. Generator - no can do.

I wouldn't want a res fridge with solar and no generator either - not in your area. Res fridge will need ~70AH or ~0.9KWH daily, this is 250W-300W flat solar solely for the fridge. Make it 700W total solar including your other loads - and even then I would be leery of camping in those parts for a month with res fridge without a generator, unless I carry enough dry goods and canned meat.

Disclosure: I'm living for months in a row off 500W solar, there is no generator, BUT my fridge is propane, there is plenty of sun and the area rarely gets any rain more often than once in 6 weeks. Your situation is different.

[naturist]

Glad you found your answer in propane. That would have been my choice, too, given that being off-grid for 3-4 weeks with a residential electric-only fridge would have been a major pain.

Most or our RVing is done with hookups, but every once in a while we do boondocks, and sometimes stay in campgrounds without hookups. The flexibility of a propane fridge is desirable in our opinion.

Those folks who go for residential units are welcome to their choices. Just not my choice.

[Kayteg1]

What is price difference between LPG and household refrigerator?
I bet it can buy nice solar panels.
IMHO buying electric fridge for boondocking with no solar makes no sense.
I know Entertainment coaches have auto-start generators and no propane at all, but that is different game to start with.

[DryCamper11]

time2roll wrote:
8 to 12 6v? L16?

I would seriously look at lithium to save weight and easily use 80% to 100% capacity vs 50% lead-acid.

http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/products/12v-300ah-lithium-ion-battery/

shop around

Those look wonderful! I was seriously excited until I scrolled the page and saw the price... $3500. for one. I think I want 3.