Generator sizing issues?

[95jersey]

I have a 2017 Jayco 273 Toy Hauler (30 amp) with a single 13,500 BTU AC (according to their website). It has gas/electric water heater and fridge, micro, 2 (TV's), digital antenna, stereo and LED lights.

I occasionally dry camp and use my Harbor Freight Generator (4000/3200) to run the AC and assorted electronics (water pump, TV, stereo). I try to run the water heater and fridge on gas during these trips. Please no inverter recommendations, not interested in spending the money at this point.

I have run the generator right from the RV power cord as well as tried extension cords (10 guage) to run the generator further from the camper, with mixed success.

With the extension cord, the generator will overload occasionally and "pop the breaker" with the AC on. I have to go outside and reset the fuse. Sometimes this rarely happens and sometimes it happens frequently. I don't get why its so haphazard.

If I don't run an extension cord, it is more reliable, but will still occasionally "pop the breaker". I try to only run the minimal while running the AC such as (lights, water pump, maybe stereo/tv).

The manual says 13,500 BTU AC, but there was an optional 15,000 BTU available from the factory. I bought mine used so not sure which one it has. Also, it never "pops" at start up, it is usually when it has been running for a bit. So it seems the generator has enough power to get the AC going without issue. It is just a random breaker pop for no reason. It never pop's the camper fuse, just the generator.

So few questions...

1)why is the fuse popping more often with an extension cord? how long can you run an extension cord and what size to prevent this?

2)do I need to up size my generator to prevent further overloads? or do I have another issue with the RV?

Harbor Freight has a 4250/3500 and 6500/5500 in my budget. I would rather get the 4250/3500 as it is cheaper/smaller and more quiet, but I don't want to buy it and just have the same issue. They have a 6500/5500 for another $90, but it is another 40lbs heavier and 4db louder.

[95jersey]

LittleBill wrote:
what is the breaker rating? it appears 20 amp on HD website.

The new model has a 25amp breaker. So not quite the full 30, even though the receptacle says 30. But that is fine for me. I was almost ok at the 13amp I was getting. So getting another 12amp for $229 is a no brainier. That will run my AC and some odds and ends without any issue.

Even at 20amp, I am way ahead of the game.

[DrewE]

LScamper wrote:
wa8xym

"IT ALSO ADDS A VERY SMALL LOAD yes. a cord even with nothing plugged in presents a very tiny load to the generator."

Please explain, I don't understand this. (Small capacitive load? Small reflection from an open circuit depending on cord length?)

Capacitive loading is all I can figure, and is utterly negligible for a generator discussion. I guess if you have a cord with a little neon light in the socket end to show it is live that adds a few milliwatts of load.

[LScamper]

wa8xym

"IT ALSO ADDS A VERY SMALL LOAD yes. a cord even with nothing plugged in presents a very tiny load to the generator."

Please explain, I don't understand this. (Small capacitive load? Small reflection from an open circuit depending on cord length?)

[pnichols]

Gdetrailer wrote:

pnichols wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:
Acutally 69DB is LESS than any builtin RV gen like Onans and a heck of a lot less cost..

Hmmm ... I wonder where this came from?

Click around on this website until to get to a common RV Onan generator's specs like their RV QG 4000 model: https://www.cummins.com/generators/rv-qg-4000

Here's a clip out of the .pdf specification for their 4000 watt model from the above website:

"Sound: 68 dB(A) readings at 10 ft (3 m) half load

* Meets National Park Service sound level requirements
(60 dB(A) @ 50 ft) for use in national parks.

* Typical installation will further reduce sound level."

The last sentence is important. Since the noise spec is for the "naked" Onan generator sitting there in only it's included case ... when it's well mounted and additionally enclosed inside an RV's outside cabinet (but open at the bottom for air flow) the actual noise heard by others outside the RV in most camping situations should be very bearable when within generator hours.

Our built-in 4000 watt Onan's sound seems nicely muffled (well below 60 dB(A)) from 50 ft away outside the RV - just a steady 3600 RPM low hum regardless of the load it's delivering. Winnebago sound-isolated it's noise output such that when inside the coach - with respect to the camping independence it's providing - we can easily tolerate it's humming. We have even run it nearly all night for A/C while we were drycamp sleeping in hot and humid conditions.

Obviously, YOU have NEVER had to SLEEP beside a motorhome RUNNING an Onan..

I CAN easily HEAR a Onan running in a busy Walmart parking lot well over 100 car spaces away (1000 ft at 10ft spaces) INSIDE MY RV.

I would rather listen to a Refrigeration ("reefer") truck parked next to me..

YOU might "think" your "built in" is quiet, but your neighbors may not have the same opinion.

Well I guess - as Einstein would almost have said - "...it's all relative".

For instance:

- We have slept all night close to Onan's running ... improperly running and enclosed in that they were constantly surging up and down and doing it much louder than our Onan sounds running smoothly. It drove us nuts.

- We have during the day camped 50 feet away from a camper using a Honda 2000 inverter generator in Eco Mode with either their A/C or microwave running. The up and down surging drove us nuts.

- We have over-nighted in truck stops many times. The noise from their poorly, or not-at-all, enclosed refrigeration unit engines drove us nuts.

- We have camped innumerable times in campgrounds with loud talking/hollering adults, hollering/squealing kids, barking dogs, loud outside music, circling vehicles, and idlng diesels. The noise drove us nuts.

- We have during the day camped 50 feet away from a motorhome with a running and very well installed generator running that we could barely, barely hear. That slight noise over the sound of the wind didn't bother us at all.

Of course a lot of things bother us when our "overly sensitive" buttons get pushed. For other close by folks that we guess might have those kind of buttons from a noise perspective, we charge our batteries during generator hours by idling our V10 engine, which by pure luck winds up being a real quiet source for replenishing 12 volt energy.

[LittleBill]

what is the breaker rating? it appears 20 amp on HD website.

[95jersey]

LittleBill wrote:

95jersey wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:

95jersey wrote:
So just to be clear, the limit is the 13.3 amp per outlet, so moving to even 6500/5500 will be the same issue as the outlet does not exceed 13.3 amp? If this is the case why do they even sell these at higher wattage ratings...confused!?!

If I get the 6500/5500 unit would I get 2750 (5500/2)? That may be all I need, and it is 1/2 the price of the inverter.

5500W gen will get you 2750W or 22.9A on EACH of the Duplex outlets which IS still going to be the SAME ISSUE YOU ALREADY HAVE WITH YOUR CURRENT GEN.

A 13.5K BTU A/C is going to draw a min of 12A (1440W) when RUNNING, however the START UP SURGE of the compressor can easily exceed 20A when HOT. Add in any other loads and you are bound to come up short and having random gen breaker trips.

Something else to take into consideration is the AVR (automatic voltage regulator) which samples ONLY ONE of the 120V windings.. Plug into the side which is not sampled and you will have larger voltage swings..

So far by being cheap it IS costing you a lot of money in randomly buying undersized and wrongly wire gens.

Your HF 3200W gen right now is $339 and a 5500W gen is $489 for a grand total of $828 plus tax you have potentially wasted..

Sure, you CAN try to sell that 3200W HF gen, but, you ARE going to have a difficult time selling it AND you are going to have one heck of a time getting even $150 out of it..

People who buy used, buy it for CHEAP.

Put it another way, I HAD a 2000W Chinese built gen which I paid on sale for $175, it was too small for my camping, only had 120V so wouldn't help for home backup. I ran it for less than 5 hrs and it sat in my garage for 5 yrs unused..

I decided to sell it, placed ad on Craigslist for $125, months go by and not one call..

Sat it at the curb with for sale sign for several weeks, fellow stopped by and we agreed on $75..

Do yourself a huge favor, just go buy the HF inverter gen and be done with it..

If you not willing to spend for tan inverter gen you WILL need to look elsewhere for a gen which is 120V ONLY..

I have a Buffalo Tools 4Kw gen which is 120V ONLY that I use for my camping.. Not sure if they sell under that name anymore, seems to me they changed to "Sportsman" brand..

Looks like this..



Found that pix HERE but they are out of stock.. Too bad, cost is $293

There ARE other "brands" of the Chinese clone gens that are 120V only in non inverter setup, you simply NEED to do some detective work.

READ the information carefully, if it says 240/120 you NEED to stay clear of that one.

If it says 120V ONLY then you have a winner..

Just be aware, many of these Chinese Clones have very little warranty/parts support (same with HF, they don't carry or sell repair parts). You will be on your own if it breaks.

Thank you for this recommendation, found it for $229...awesome!

considering there are 2 ac breakers on that unit, he's pretty much going to be in the same boat as the generator he has now.

he needs a generator with a 30amp 120v outlet on it, to get full power from both windings. it has nothing to do with what voltage its putting out. No genny manufacture is going to put bigger then a 20 amp breaker on a nema15r

That is not the right picture, this is the one I got with 30 amp RV outlet.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sportsman-4-000-3-500-Watt-Gasoline-Powered-Portable-Generator-with-RV-O...

[Gdetrailer]

pnichols wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:
Acutally 69DB is LESS than any builtin RV gen like Onans and a heck of a lot less cost..

Hmmm ... I wonder where this came from?

Click around on this website until to get to a common RV Onan generator's specs like their RV QG 4000 model: https://www.cummins.com/generators/rv-qg-4000

Here's a clip out of the .pdf specification for their 4000 watt model from the above website:

"Sound: 68 dB(A) readings at 10 ft (3 m) half load

* Meets National Park Service sound level requirements
(60 dB(A) @ 50 ft) for use in national parks.

* Typical installation will further reduce sound level."

The last sentence is important. Since the noise spec is for the "naked" Onan generator sitting there in only it's included case ... when it's well mounted and additionally enclosed inside an RV's outside cabinet (but open at the bottom for air flow) the actual noise heard by others outside the RV in most camping situations should be very bearable when within generator hours.

Our built-in 4000 watt Onan's sound seems nicely muffled (well below 60 dB(A)) from 50 ft away outside the RV - just a steady 3600 RPM low hum regardless of the load it's delivering. Winnebago sound-isolated it's noise output such that when inside the coach - with respect to the camping independence it's providing - we can easily tolerate it's humming. We have even run it nearly all night for A/C while we were drycamp sleeping in hot and humid conditions.

Obviously, YOU have NEVER had to SLEEP beside a motorhome RUNNING an Onan..

I CAN easily HEAR a Onan running in a busy Walmart parking lot well over 100 car spaces away (1000 ft at 10ft spaces) INSIDE MY RV.

I would rather listen to a Refrigeration ("reefer") truck parked next to me..

YOU might "think" your "built in" is quiet, but your neighbors may not have the same opinion.

[Boomerweps]

pnichols wrote:

Boomerweps wrote:
To give you an idea of your power usage to compare to available amperage, here's my measurements on my TT:
Fridge 328 watts 2.733 amps
Bathroom fan 40 watts 0.333 amps
Microwave 1230 watts 12.05 amps
AC 1446 watts 12.05 amps
D.C. Inverter at idle batteries charged 14watts 0.117 amps
Water heater 1245 watts 10.38 amps
Toaster 692 watts 5.77 amps
Electric space heater 1500 watts 12.5 amps
Electric griddle 1500 watts 12.5 amps
Single serve coffee maker 800 watts 6.67 amps

Add 'em up, read 'em and weep, but don't go over 30 amps!

Because of the above, I added an extra stand alone receptacle with its own power inlet on my TT. I also run an extension cord separate from the power source to a table under my awning for cooking gear and such. Also I shut off my air conditioner when using the microwave. Those two with the converter (amp draw depending on battery charge status) and fridge and anything else using electricity could put me over 30 amps. Heating elements are always a large draw. Water heater, space heater, cooking elements.

Since we're talking about generators, I guess that means that we're talking about drycamping.

So ....:

1. What combinations of the items on your list do you really have to run at the same time?

AND

2. What is the impact of propane on electrical power usage with regards to your list?

Our 4000 watt built-in generator and propane supply can handle just about any really necessary simultaneous combination from the list.

Merely giving a list of power requirements for items in a typical (my) TT. Then you can figure out what you can operate at the same time. Pretty easy to exceed 30 amps during breakfast preps on a hot summer day 😉
In a CG, I use their electrical power to the max extent possible, including power not run through the TT. Boondocking or for short travel stops, I would factor in using propane for fridge and heater and use the stovetop burners for coffee and such. I do not currently drag my generator along, it's a noisy and heavy one, although it does have a TT30 jack and a 4 pole jack. I use the 4 pole jack to connect to my home in order to get full capacity from the generator, 15 amps per home buss. The standard jacks are CBed at 15amps. I need to doublecheck the windings supplying that TT30 jack.
I do not know why anyone in this thread would recommend ANY generator without a TT30 jack for a TT.
Oh, and when boondocking, the microwave becomes a breadbox 😉

[edbehnke]

keep your extension cord short. this will help.

[MitchF150]

...

[pnichols]

Gdetrailer wrote:
Acutally 69DB is LESS than any builtin RV gen like Onans and a heck of a lot less cost..

Hmmm ... I wonder where this came from?

Click around on this website until to get to a common RV Onan generator's specs like their RV QG 4000 model: https://www.cummins.com/generators/rv-qg-4000

Here's a clip out of the .pdf specification for their 4000 watt model from the above website:

"Sound: 68 dB(A) readings at 10 ft (3 m) half load

* Meets National Park Service sound level requirements
(60 dB(A) @ 50 ft) for use in national parks.

* Typical installation will further reduce sound level."

The last sentence is important. Since the noise spec is for the "naked" Onan generator sitting there in only it's included case ... when it's well mounted and additionally enclosed inside an RV's outside cabinet (but open at the bottom for air flow) the actual noise heard by others outside the RV in most camping situations should be very bearable when within generator hours.

Our built-in 4000 watt Onan's sound seems nicely muffled (well below 60 dB(A)) from 50 ft away outside the RV - just a steady 3600 RPM low hum regardless of the load it's delivering. Winnebago sound-isolated it's noise output such that when inside the coach - with respect to the camping independence it's providing - we can easily tolerate it's humming. We have even run it nearly all night for A/C while we were drycamp sleeping in hot and humid conditions.

[LittleBill]

95jersey wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:

95jersey wrote:
So just to be clear, the limit is the 13.3 amp per outlet, so moving to even 6500/5500 will be the same issue as the outlet does not exceed 13.3 amp? If this is the case why do they even sell these at higher wattage ratings...confused!?!

If I get the 6500/5500 unit would I get 2750 (5500/2)? That may be all I need, and it is 1/2 the price of the inverter.

5500W gen will get you 2750W or 22.9A on EACH of the Duplex outlets which IS still going to be the SAME ISSUE YOU ALREADY HAVE WITH YOUR CURRENT GEN.

A 13.5K BTU A/C is going to draw a min of 12A (1440W) when RUNNING, however the START UP SURGE of the compressor can easily exceed 20A when HOT. Add in any other loads and you are bound to come up short and having random gen breaker trips.

Something else to take into consideration is the AVR (automatic voltage regulator) which samples ONLY ONE of the 120V windings.. Plug into the side which is not sampled and you will have larger voltage swings..

So far by being cheap it IS costing you a lot of money in randomly buying undersized and wrongly wire gens.

Your HF 3200W gen right now is $339 and a 5500W gen is $489 for a grand total of $828 plus tax you have potentially wasted..

Sure, you CAN try to sell that 3200W HF gen, but, you ARE going to have a difficult time selling it AND you are going to have one heck of a time getting even $150 out of it..

People who buy used, buy it for CHEAP.

Put it another way, I HAD a 2000W Chinese built gen which I paid on sale for $175, it was too small for my camping, only had 120V so wouldn't help for home backup. I ran it for less than 5 hrs and it sat in my garage for 5 yrs unused..

I decided to sell it, placed ad on Craigslist for $125, months go by and not one call..

Sat it at the curb with for sale sign for several weeks, fellow stopped by and we agreed on $75..

Do yourself a huge favor, just go buy the HF inverter gen and be done with it..

If you not willing to spend for tan inverter gen you WILL need to look elsewhere for a gen which is 120V ONLY..

I have a Buffalo Tools 4Kw gen which is 120V ONLY that I use for my camping.. Not sure if they sell under that name anymore, seems to me they changed to "Sportsman" brand..

Looks like this..



Found that pix HERE but they are out of stock.. Too bad, cost is $293

There ARE other "brands" of the Chinese clone gens that are 120V only in non inverter setup, you simply NEED to do some detective work.

READ the information carefully, if it says 240/120 you NEED to stay clear of that one.

If it says 120V ONLY then you have a winner..

Just be aware, many of these Chinese Clones have very little warranty/parts support (same with HF, they don't carry or sell repair parts). You will be on your own if it breaks.

Thank you for this recommendation, found it for $229...awesome!

considering there are 2 ac breakers on that unit, he's pretty much going to be in the same boat as the generator he has now.

he needs a generator with a 30amp 120v outlet on it, to get full power from both windings. it has nothing to do with what voltage its putting out. No genny manufacture is going to put bigger then a 20 amp breaker on a nema15r

[95jersey]

Gdetrailer wrote:

95jersey wrote:
So just to be clear, the limit is the 13.3 amp per outlet, so moving to even 6500/5500 will be the same issue as the outlet does not exceed 13.3 amp? If this is the case why do they even sell these at higher wattage ratings...confused!?!

If I get the 6500/5500 unit would I get 2750 (5500/2)? That may be all I need, and it is 1/2 the price of the inverter.

5500W gen will get you 2750W or 22.9A on EACH of the Duplex outlets which IS still going to be the SAME ISSUE YOU ALREADY HAVE WITH YOUR CURRENT GEN.

A 13.5K BTU A/C is going to draw a min of 12A (1440W) when RUNNING, however the START UP SURGE of the compressor can easily exceed 20A when HOT. Add in any other loads and you are bound to come up short and having random gen breaker trips.

Something else to take into consideration is the AVR (automatic voltage regulator) which samples ONLY ONE of the 120V windings.. Plug into the side which is not sampled and you will have larger voltage swings..

So far by being cheap it IS costing you a lot of money in randomly buying undersized and wrongly wire gens.

Your HF 3200W gen right now is $339 and a 5500W gen is $489 for a grand total of $828 plus tax you have potentially wasted..

Sure, you CAN try to sell that 3200W HF gen, but, you ARE going to have a difficult time selling it AND you are going to have one heck of a time getting even $150 out of it..

People who buy used, buy it for CHEAP.

Put it another way, I HAD a 2000W Chinese built gen which I paid on sale for $175, it was too small for my camping, only had 120V so wouldn't help for home backup. I ran it for less than 5 hrs and it sat in my garage for 5 yrs unused..

I decided to sell it, placed ad on Craigslist for $125, months go by and not one call..

Sat it at the curb with for sale sign for several weeks, fellow stopped by and we agreed on $75..

Do yourself a huge favor, just go buy the HF inverter gen and be done with it..

If you not willing to spend for tan inverter gen you WILL need to look elsewhere for a gen which is 120V ONLY..

I have a Buffalo Tools 4Kw gen which is 120V ONLY that I use for my camping.. Not sure if they sell under that name anymore, seems to me they changed to "Sportsman" brand..

Looks like this..



Found that pix HERE but they are out of stock.. Too bad, cost is $293

There ARE other "brands" of the Chinese clone gens that are 120V only in non inverter setup, you simply NEED to do some detective work.

READ the information carefully, if it says 240/120 you NEED to stay clear of that one.

If it says 120V ONLY then you have a winner..

Just be aware, many of these Chinese Clones have very little warranty/parts support (same with HF, they don't carry or sell repair parts). You will be on your own if it breaks.

Thank you for this recommendation, found it for $229...awesome!

[ScottG]

My Honda is something like 53 db and it's loud to me (even more loud to those not getting power from it..).
69 is way too loud.