โJul-21-2017 01:18 PM
โJul-24-2017 05:20 AM
Gdetrailer wrote:
But keep in mind that the OP WAS about HHO (generating Hydrogen from water using electrolysis via a car and running the SAME car from that) , and that HAS BEEN PROVEN to not work by Mythbusters..
โJul-23-2017 07:51 PM
โJul-23-2017 07:21 PM
free radical wrote:
Heres something else for you technicaly inclined to ponder about..
Preheating the incoming air,fuel mix does increase burning efficiency making more power..
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-1009-what-ever-happened-to-smokeys-hot-vapor-engine/
โJul-23-2017 07:21 PM
โJul-23-2017 06:19 PM
Gdetrailer wrote:drsteve wrote:
We already produce large quantities of hydrogen for industrial uses. In 2006, the United States was estimated to have a production capacity of 11 million tons of hydrogen. 5 million tons of hydrogen were consumed on-site in oil refining, and in the production of ammonia. Hydrogen production is an estimated $100 billion industry.
Sure, we "produce" Hydrogen for industry, does not mean it is a GOOD fuel to REPLACE gas..
Do you not understand that Hydrogen contains LESS ENERGY CONTENT per lb than gasoline?
Do you not understand that it TAKES CONSIDERABLE MORE ENERGY (BTU OR WATTs) to produce a lb of Hydrogen?
Do you not understand that the energy must come from some other source to produce Hydrogen?
Hydrogen can be made from electrolysis of water or cracking methane or natural gas, any of these ways REQUIRES additional ENERGY from somewhere else..
Do you understand that Hydrogen produced for and by industry is used mainly for REACTIONS of chemicals or gasses to produce other products and such and not for the HEAT..
I have a refinery near me that that in a process of refining White Oils uses a hydrogen reactor as part of the refining process and nothing more.. It is used to break down the hydro carbon chains into desired chains for their final products.
That plant over the years HAS had a couple of equipment failures resulting in hydrogen blast and fire.. Yeah, those explosions have been heard as far away as 15 miles and the shock from the blasts felt better than 5 miles away..
From what I gather, it takes 1.3 gallons of Hydrogen to equal the energy content in gallon gasoline.. Sort of difficult to flesh out since pretty much all the discussions center around Hydrogen as a GAS VAPOR and not a liquid.
Most likely due to the fact that Hydrogen gas is easier to produce, liquifying it takes even more energy and industrial uses really don't use liquid but gas..
Hydrogen also burns COLORLESS which makes a Hydrogen fire extremely difficult to detect and therefore fight.
Hydrogen is typically stored at high pressures, typically 3,000 PSI or higher.. That would make for extremely and insanely expensive "tanks" to be hung on a vehicle. Dealing with highly flammable high pressure tanks, DOT requires them to be disconnected AND to have the valves CAGED..
I own a Oxy-Acetelyne torch set, I would never consider hauling them on a vehicle without the regulators disconnected or no cage.. and acetylene is pretty mild compared to Hydrogen..
But keep in mind that the OP WAS about HHO (generating Hydrogen from water using electrolysis via a car and running the SAME car from that) , and that HAS BEEN PROVEN to not work by Mythbusters..
โJul-23-2017 05:48 PM
โJul-23-2017 04:06 PM
drsteve wrote:
We already produce large quantities of hydrogen for industrial uses. In 2006, the United States was estimated to have a production capacity of 11 million tons of hydrogen. 5 million tons of hydrogen were consumed on-site in oil refining, and in the production of ammonia. Hydrogen production is an estimated $100 billion industry.
โJul-23-2017 02:35 PM
drsteve wrote:
In 2006, the United States was estimated to have a production capacity of 11 million tons of hydrogen.
โJul-23-2017 02:31 PM
Gdetrailer wrote:
At 10% Ethanol you get a 10%-15% LOSS of gas mileage!
โJul-23-2017 09:57 AM
โJul-23-2017 08:57 AM
โJul-23-2017 08:29 AM
drsteve wrote:Gdetrailer wrote:drsteve wrote:
It's not inefficient. It's actually 2-3 times more energy efficient than an internal combustion vehicle--it's just currently expensive.
Well, not really, but you are more than welcome to believe it is.
Making "hydrogen" is actually really difficult, the bond between hydrogen and oxygen is very strong (which makes water very stabil).
Takes a lot of ENERGY to break that bond.
That energy must come from somewhere.
So, you must PUT energy INTO the process in order to get hydrogen.. That is nothing more than converting one energy source to another (IE LOSS)..
Sure, running IC on hydrogen may turn up the efficiency of a IC engine, but because of the huge input of energy that was used to get the hydrogen it ends up as a total loss, more energy in the end used to make that IC engine pure than if you used good old fashion gas from a well..
Man has tried for many years to make things run on nothing, but it cannot be done.
Those devices are called perpetual machines or OVER UNITY machines..
HHO is bunk, it take huge amounts of energy to net a small amount of hydrogen, a 12V battery cannot provide enough energy to make enough HHO to make a engine cough..
As far as practicality of running IC vehicles from hydrogen, price out the cost of a hydrogen cylinder.. Then consider how many cylinders it would take to drive several hundred miles.. Then try to figure out just how you are going to get them filled when empty..
Then consider just how dangerous that would be in a accident..
Yeah, lets all strap a few hydrogen tanks to our vehicles :E
Not practical on so many levels but yet folks gravitate to junk science.
My comment regarding efficiency that you are replying to, was in response to time2roll, who referenced the Toyota Mirai, a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle. These vehicles extract 50-60 percent of the energy contained in the fuel (hydrogen) as opposed to the 20-25 percent typical of an IC engine.
I agree that the HHO thing is perpetual motion nonsense.
โJul-23-2017 07:47 AM
drsteve wrote:
It's not inefficient. It's actually 2-3 times more energy efficient than an internal combustion vehicle--it's just currently expensive.
โJul-23-2017 07:44 AM
Tom_M wrote:
HHO involves injecting hydrogen and oxygen gas into the intake. The gasses will not combine into liquid water.