In a bit of a predicament (Black Water tank full and frozen)

[Lunar_Firefly]

I am so in over my head with this problem. Hi, I'm brand new here. I've been living in this RV since the beginning of January, and just in the past week or so, I tried to dump my black water tank.

It has been a weekly thing since I moved in. Had one or two times where it wouldn't properly drain but I was able to sort it out (washing wand works super well to push clogs down).

This time nothing is working. The compartment the holding tanks sit in, is cramped and I could barely fit a reverse flush in there to shoot down this long pipe extending out from the two tanks.

I tried nearly boiling hot water, TechRX unclogging stuff, the regular TechRX formula to keep the system good. I've tried vinegar and pushing the wand into the tank to try to stir it around from the toilet. I was definitely using a lot of water to keep it from piling up too and nothing.. The reverse flush dislodged some stuff, but it barely seemed to do anything so I'm really worried the valve may be malfunctioning.

But it has gone from full to 3/4ths so maybe all that cleaned some of the sensors.

The tanks have frozen at least twice now with the sudden drop in temperature, and I'm in a panic because I'm worried that this is going to rupture the pipes, or the tanks themselves and cause a huge mess.

Can anyone offer any suggestions? Gray water is draining just fine, though I heard it flush a bunch of ice out when I pulled the gate valve open.

I'm at my wits end with this. I'm afraid it's going to end up with a bunch of other problems.

Next step is going to be hooking up a flexible wand to the faucet and running hot water through it to try to dislodge whatever is in there. I have to wait until Thursday for everything though.

Is there anything I can do in the meantime?

Is there any way to test if the gate valve for the black water tank is bad?

As a side note - we had an electrical fire at the main house on the property, so our current source of electricity is super limited. So running space heaters and stuff, isn't going to happen until the electricity out here is fixed.

Thanks for any suggestions or ideas.

[IBcarguy]

I agree with several others....I doubt that it is frozen. 30 degrees isn't cold enough to freeze up a 30 gal tank. It's more likely clogged up. If you can't chemically treat it to disolve the clog, it will be a messy job for sure.

[profdant139]

I don't have any good advice. But I can give you some solace: when all of this is eventually fixed, you will have a great story to tell!

Hang in there.

[Bob_Olallawa]

A propane lantern makes a good heat source. Used one a few times to thaw out the exit pipe and valve while hunting.

[time2roll]

30F? is that at sunrise or at 2pm?

You mentioned backflush did not work well... seems like you may have a solid object in the tank. If it really is ice it should clear for doing the back flush a few times. May need a plumber with a camera to scope this out. Maybe Harbor Freight has a low cost camera to buy.

Do you rely on the tank sensors to know the tank is empty? Very common to have a false reading.

I doubt tank and pipe is frozen solid but here is a heat pad you can order: www.ultraheat.com

May need someone there with experience to actually look at it. Mobile RV tech should be able to set you on the right path in 30 minutes or less.

[wa8yxm]

IS this tank in an encosed area? are the pipes also encosed?

If so then as God is rumored to have said LET THERE BE LIGHT.

A "Trouble light" or Drop light (Caged lamp) 100 watt rough service, Incandascant will generate 100 watts of heat. this may be enough to warm it up or you coudl use 2 or 3 spaced through the compartment.. I have around 350 watts of light in my encosed wet bay. raises it about 10 degrees.

[jplante4]

Did you visually verify that there's ice in the tank? Can you look down the toilet and see the tank or is there a bend in the pipe?

I'm with valhalla. I think it's clogged from misuse.

That reverse flush connector just shoots water up the outlet pipe. If there are any bends in that, you're not getting to the tank proper. Try a flexible wand down the toilet.

Don't go strictly by the sensors.

[2chiefsRus]

I didn't read anywhere in your posts that you are making sure the black tank is at least half full before trying to dump it. You need to have enough liquid in the tank to create a swirling motion to flush all the solids out. If you were dumping weekly, it may be that you were only getting the liquid out but leaving a lot of solids behind accumulating in the bottom of the tank until it finally reached critical mass so to speak. May not have anything to do with freezing temperatures especially if it only got down to 30 degrees overnight.

[ib516]

If it's just a build up of solids from neglect, get the proper holding tank "chemical" and use it exclusively. The blue stuff just is a deodorant. Get an enzyme treatment. It will take a few fill/drain cycles to get fully working as the blue stuff inhibits it from working properly so you have to flush all remnants of that out of the tank to have full effect. Once you do though, it works great. It digests waste and toilet paper and makes everything come out when you drain. It also prevents odors.

EXAMPLE OF WHAT I MEAN

[dougrainer]

Once you get the problem fixed, you need to do the RIGHT thing when camping in freezing weather-------Pour a couple of gallons of RV antifreeze in the tanks after each dump to prevent freezing. Doug

[valhalla360]

If it's 30F average, I doubt it's frozen solid. More likely solids clog.

Are you going purely off the tank sensors? They are notoriously bad and often will continue to show full or partially full even with an empty tank.

[Bill_Satellite]

It appears the compartment is enclosed so you would just need to put one of the personal 250W heaters in there and plug it in. It will warm everything up pretty quickly. Since it's only 30 degrees outside it should not take long to thaw things out. Be sure it's well sealed and give it as much time as possible.
You may also be able to install a cap like this http://www.campingworld.com/termination-cap-with-hose-connector on your output connection and blow water backward up the discharge to free up and blockage. You need a hose with female connectors on both ends but it does work.

[chainegang]

You can rent a kerosene heater from most national hardware stores. They are sometimes called bullet heaters and are used extensively by contractors for outdoor situations. Needs to be plugged in to operate but takes very litlle electricity. The blast from the heater will flood the area of the frozen tank and should reduce or eliminate the issue. Good Luck.
Buy the way you can own a homeowner version of the heater for around $150.00. Home depot, True value, Lowes to name a few.

[Lunar_Firefly]

I'm sorry for the lack of information. It's about 30 f here in northern Washington. Got ocean on one side, and the Puget Sound on the other. It's a really pretty area.

I've been living in this 28ft 1990 Fleetwood Southwind for closing in on two months now. Been trying to repair it as we didn't know what we were doing when we bought it. So I've discovered a lot of problems, and am trying to make it livable until I can afford a nicer one, or move.

The black water tank is about 30 gallons I believe? It's a Chevy chassis if that helps at all. Doesn't appear to be underbelly enclosed.

Can you recommend what heating pads would work?

I actually had taken some pictures of the holding tanks to share with a friend, hoping we could figure out some means of resolving the issue of it not draining.







There's a Rhino reverse flush 40 degree elbow on it right now, but due to the fact I can't get the tubing through the normal hole I'd feed it through, the door is left open, and the angle makes it hard for all the water to drain out. It's not enough to burst the pipes, or tubing I don't think.

Alright so basically a few days ago I went to drain it, and a little came out then it stopped. So I tried dumping numerous pots of near boiling water down the toilet. Water was on still so it cooled it a bit when it went down.

I tried adding more TankTechRX I think it's called, and nothing. Tried the stuff that's suppose to unclog it by TankTechRX, still nothing. Tried to use vinegar, let it sit overnight.. Nadda. Sensors were showing full before, now I'm seeing 3/4ths so I'm assuming it cleaned the sensors off or.. one stopped working.. It's also not burping now so something must have gone down.

When I used the reverse flush, I got some stuff loose, but it didn't seem to really do much else? I let it run for a bit trying to get in there and knock whatever was clogged up, loose. Nadda. The water was clear after I dislodged some stuff, and the only thing draining was what was being blasted up the pipe.

Anyway, it froze a couple nights ago, and I waited until mid day to try draining it again since I didn't want to mess with it if it were completely frozen. Nothing came out. Gray water was full again, so I drained that with no trouble.

When I tried moving the black water valve earlier, I heard what I thought was the valve shifting open and breaking some thin ice that had built up (this was at 4 in the afternoon.. Wasn't going to get much warmer than that). Nothing came out still. It was trickling before when I first started a few days ago, now it's nothing at all.

The previous owners didn't take care of it. We didn't know what we were doing when we bought it, so I've been searching the world wide web for information on how to do repairs, and try to keep this place livable until I can afford to get a better RV. It's in pretty bad shape, but it's a roof over my head until something better comes along.

Would adding RV antifreeze even work in a tank that's full? I can do it with the gray water for sure. That's a very good idea and I'll do that as soon as I get a chance to make a store run.

I'm adding a skirt to it as soon as I get all the materials. R-Tech 1 inch Styrofoam is the last thing I need. Just a matter of getting a truck since the nearest home depot/lowes is a half hour from here.

Hahaha don't need another poop facial. Learned that lesson when the dump hose flipped and splashed me.

Thanks for the advice. Space heater is out of the question for now, but hopefully we'll get the shore power fixed and won't be running on minimal.. everything.

[RSD559]

You didn't give us much background to go on. You are from Home. I don't know what the weather extremes are there. What kind of trailer do you have? Is the underbelly enclosed? How big is your black tank? That type of information is helpful.
My advice - find some place warm to park it. You can buy 12 volt tank heaters that stick to the bottom of the tanks. I had them on my first trailer. rarely used them, but they worked when I did. They aren't going to help with the exposed plumbing, though. Maybe adding some antifreeze to the mix will help a little. Skirting the bottom edge of the trailer and putting a space heater in there may also help.
One thing guaranteed to open up the dump pipe, is to get your face right up to it and look in it. The longer you look, the greater the chances of getting a poop facial will be and the problem will be solved. Good luck. Let us know how it comes out (pun intended).