Mystery Wires... Any thoughts?

[bedpan]

Hey folks,

Was climbing around underneath doing some clean up and prepping for a trip on our trailer and found 2 mystery wires. I am trying to figure out what they are used for. As best I can guess they are grounds, but the placement just does not make sense.

The trailer in question is a s 2018 Sundance 241BH.

Two wired floating next to the frame with Lug ends on them on the passenger side near the rear tire. There is a bit of a bolt sticking out that I wonder if they are suppose to be bolted to for ground. Tracing the wires back they wrap around the frame then go up through the floor into the area of the fuse panel, furnace and fridge.

Next time I am out working I will try and figure out how to access that area from the inside of the trailer and trace them out.

Any thoughts in the mean time?


Click For Full-Size Image.


Click For Full-Size Image.

[ppine]

Your first clue that they are grounds is the bare copper wire and a white wire with lugs on them.

[bedpan]

We head to Maine in about a week. I will troll the shelves to see what I can find (likely will look for the Rustoleum Pro)... I am thinking a couple coats of paint over the next 6 months. Then I am thinking I will try a rust inhibitor such as LPS 3 or cosmaline RP-342..

Cheers

myredracer wrote:
On Tremclad, it's made by the same company. Rustoleum is harder to find in Canada and I haven't found the "Professional" grade here anywhere and I buy it the US where it's easy to find in Lowes, etc. I am not sure if Tremclad is formulated exactly the same as Rustoleum but would be surprised if it isn't the same and just re-branded. Either will be good for a TT frame.

If it were me, I'd brush it on to avoid getting overspray on the exterior and parts you don't want paint on, except maybe in visible areas like the A-frame or bumper and you can always mask it off with sheet plastic. You're not going to be showing it at a concourse event and keeping rust at bay is what matters. Nice thing about Tremclad is that if any rust reappears, just sand it down to remove loose rust, clean it and re-paint over it.

[myredracer]

On Tremclad, it's made by the same company. Rustoleum is harder to find in Canada and I haven't found the "Professional" grade here anywhere and I buy it the US where it's easy to find in Lowes, etc. I am not sure if Tremclad is formulated exactly the same as Rustoleum but would be surprised if it isn't the same and just re-branded. Either will be good for a TT frame.

If it were me, I'd brush it on to avoid getting overspray on the exterior and parts you don't want paint on, except maybe in visible areas like the A-frame or bumper and you can always mask it off with sheet plastic. You're not going to be showing it at a concourse event and keeping rust at bay is what matters. Nice thing about Tremclad is that if any rust reappears, just sand it down to remove loose rust, clean it and re-paint over it.

[bedpan]

Thanks to everyone for the words of wisdom. Some great attention here from all you folks and I truly appreciate it...

This is going to be a bit of a work in progress I think.. I have the grounding done now in an adequate way I believe.. That said it is going to happen again. I like the idea of the solid brass post and I will look into doing this at some point.

Regarding the weld. I have done some welding but I am not an expert on the topic. I had a mechanic look at it today when I was getting the bearing done. He looked over the hangers on both sides and said "not pretty but should be ok".

As for the frame... I got ahead of myself in trying to prep it and started spray bombing it with some tremclad type rust paint. I am sure there are better products. That said it should get me by for the season. Later this year, or maybe the spring I will look at dropping the black cover underneath the trailer and exposing the whole underside. This will give me a chance to see whats really going on under there. Seal up any holes and inspect the other side of the frame. Ideally at that point I would like to properly prep the whole frame and paint it again with the appropriate product.

Cheers all!

Mike

[myredracer]

One of the ground wires is for the 12 volt converter/charger and the other is for the 120 volt AC panel. Both are very important, especially the 120 volt panel grounding for safety reasons.

As far as I'm concerned, the way RV manufacturers do grounding to frames is really bad and asking for problems. I'm pretty certain the lugs they use are only UL listed for indoor dry locations and have not been able to find a wet or damp location listing for them. They are simply screwed onto frames with a small self-tapping screw and the frame metal isn't properly cleaned and treated to minimize the possibility of rust between lug & frame.

I removed the two ground lugs for our converter & panel and installed a brass grounding post like in this photo and connected the 2 ground wires to it. Available from Burndy and Panduit. I used a brass nut and serrated brass washer on each side of the frame to bite into the steel frame and sanded the steel to clean & shiny.

You will find the same ground lugs used in the A-frame in TTs and for grounding electric stab. jacks.

As far as rust goes on the frame, I wouldn't use POR-15. It's not the magic answer many think. The surfaces need to be correctly cleaned and prepped or it won't adhere properly and it can't be recoated after curing. I would use Rustoleum "Professional" rust converter paint. Excellent stuff and available in rattle can or brush on. Correct cleaning and prep is the key to doing it right and getting it to last.

It def. looks like a bad weld on the spring hanger. If that's all there is, it's an easy fix. But if there is a bad weld like this, I would check the entire frame for other bad welds. Don't get me started on Lippert frame problems. We had an entire TT replaced because of it.

[BillyBob_Jim]

RCMAN46 wrote:

LittleBill wrote:
spray the connection with fluid film once everything is repainted. needs to be applied every winter but the stuff works flawless.

also looks like you have a bad weld....

A bad weld on a Lippert frame!!

What would be more of a surprise is a good weld on a Lippert frame!!

[RCMAN46]

LittleBill wrote:
spray the connection with fluid film once everything is repainted. needs to be applied every winter but the stuff works flawless.

also looks like you have a bad weld....

A bad weld on a Lippert frame!!

My Lippert frame has many welds that look like chicken p##p as my father would call that type of weld.

[GordonThree]

There's no bright copper left in those wires. If you want high spec replace them.

Otherwise clean reassemble and seal will have you better off than the millions of RVs out there that don't check this every.

[bedpan]

Thanks for the reply... I spent sometime poking at it last night and did most of this. I did reuse the lug, but that was after a acid bath. They look brand new. I cut the wire back and stripped and cleaned up the metal for a fresh self tapper to go into. I did paint over it with some rust paint... I will take the step further and coat them with a undercoat of some sort as per your suggestions..

Cheers.

Mike

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
My opinion?

Pay Attention to what Doug Rainer wrote

Or suffer nightmares of ground loop magic in the future.

90-grit sandpaper.
New self-tapping screw for frame
NEW NEW NEW NEW aluminum lug for the big wire. The old lug has no tin left and it is a guaranteed land mine. Repeat GUARANTEED.

Strip wire insulation so that BRAND NEW PENNY colored copper fits into the lug.

SHINE the frame rail under the new lug to bright steel condition.

Tighten the snot out of the lug screw then the frame screw Go to Wal-Mart and buy a spray can of black Rust-O-Leum BED COATING. The coating will last ten years. No paint can match it for durability.

Doing this repair right is as easy as doing it half-assed. And doing it half-assed will cause problems. Absolutely guaranteed.

On Quicksilver I soldered CAST COPPER LUGS onto the No 1 battery cable then I BRAZED the lug to the steel frame. Back then there was no Rust-O-Leum so I used asphalt-based undercoating.

THIRTY YEARS AGO.

Do it once. Do it right.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

My opinion?

Pay Attention to what Doug Rainer wrote

Or suffer nightmares of ground loop magic in the future.

90-grit sandpaper.
New self-tapping screw for frame
NEW NEW NEW NEW aluminum lug for the big wire. The old lug has no tin left and it is a guaranteed land mine. Repeat GUARANTEED.

Strip wire insulation so that BRAND NEW PENNY colored copper fits into the lug.

SHINE the frame rail under the new lug to bright steel condition.

Tighten the snot out of the lug screw then the frame screw Go to Wal-Mart and buy a spray can of black Rust-O-Leum BED COATING. The coating will last ten years. No paint can match it for durability.

Doing this repair right is as easy as doing it half-assed. And doing it half-assed will cause problems. Absolutely guaranteed.

On Quicksilver I soldered CAST COPPER LUGS onto the No 1 battery cable then I BRAZED the lug to the steel frame. Back then there was no Rust-O-Leum so I used asphalt-based undercoating.

THIRTY YEARS AGO.

Do it once. Do it right.

[bedpan]

Pretty sure its just the way it is shadowed in there. I spend a couple hours last night wire brushing and cleaning. I looked over most of the welds. I will take another look tonight for sure though. Thanks for watching out of me!

LittleBill wrote:
spray the connection with fluid film once everything is repainted. needs to be applied every winter but the stuff works flawless.

also looks like you have a bad weld....

[wnjj]

bedpan wrote:
I have never seen por15 before so doing some reading on it.. Is it a waste of time to not do the full 3 part system? Or can I just clean up and paint?

bgum wrote:
POR 15

I’ve seen POR do an amazing job on my farm tractor where the battery had puked some and quite a bit of rust had formed. Just wire brushed and painted it on. Nice and black again and no more rust many years later.

[LittleBill]

spray the connection with fluid film once everything is repainted. needs to be applied every winter but the stuff works flawless.

also looks like you have a bad weld....

[alfredmay]

Rust Oleum makes a rust converter. It converts rust to a hard, solid surface that can be painted. Hammerite is another brand that does the same thing. I have used both brands with good results.