Running two 2000 watt generators in eco mode with AC on

[DieselBurps]

Curious if this is possible or anyone has done this. Currently I can run my Coleman mach air conditioning unit in my truck camper off just one yamaha 2000 watt generator but it's not happy about it and from the sound I can tell it's maxed out. I am wondering if I were to run two 2000 watt generators in parallel could I do it with the eco throttle on? It seems like this would be possible since both generators are putting out 26 amps and given the fact I am able to start it and run the ac with just one.

[SoundGuy]

DieselBurps wrote:
UPDATE:

Well I installed the easy start soft start thingy, in the parking lot of a Napa auto parts store in 93 deg. heat no less. I was able to find another store that would let me barrow their 120 volt utility power to do the 5 starts of air conditioner like Easy Start recommends. Success, it works.

I then went back to my place to try it on the single Honda 2000 watt genny, it started the AC no problem, no brownout or anything. Started the AC in eco mode and ran it at about half throttle or so my guess in eco mode. Really pretty quite.

Any reports I've read about the Micro-Air Easy Start Soft Starter kit say pretty well the same so it seems like Micro-Air is offering a product that actually does do what they claim. Glad to hear this solved your issue ... IMO a much better solution than running dual parallel 2K gensets. :B

[DieselBurps]

UPDATE:

Well I installed the easy start soft start thingy, in the parking lot of a Napa auto parts store in 93 deg. heat no less. I was able to find another store that would let me barrow their 120 volt utility power to do the 5 starts of air conditioner like Easy Start recommends. Success, it works.

I then went back to my place to try it on the single Honda 2000 watt genny, it started the AC no problem, no brownout or anything. Started the AC in eco mode and ran it at about half throttle or so my guess in eco mode. Really pretty quite.

[ktmrfs]

SoundGuy wrote:

pnichols wrote:
What leaving this main circulation fan ON all of the time means with respect to generator loading is ... the air conditioner's start up current loading (compressor locked rotor large current spike plus main circulation fan locked shaft smaller current spike) on the generator is reduced because the main circulation fan is already running whenever the compressor starts.

OTOH one can eliminate fan load entirely upon initial start up by installing an SPDT switch with a centre off position to the A/C thermostat ... allow the compressor to come up to speed, then turn on the fan ... one of the tricks I used to enable my EU2000i to start our 13,500 BTU Mach 3+ A/C. I wish the Micro-Air Easy Start had been available then and I was aware of it as I'm confident that would have been the better solution. 🙂

at one time there was a really neat little adjustable time delay to have the fan come on about 5-15 seconds AFTER the compressor came on. I have one, timing is set by an external resistor. However the mfg has since discontinued the device.

went from "almost adequate" to "barely adequate" under some conditions with my MachIII. Still wasn't something I could trust at high temps or high altitude, but did help.

[SoundGuy]

pnichols wrote:
What leaving this main circulation fan ON all of the time means with respect to generator loading is ... the air conditioner's start up current loading (compressor locked rotor large current spike plus main circulation fan locked shaft smaller current spike) on the generator is reduced because the main circulation fan is already running whenever the compressor starts.

OTOH one can eliminate fan load entirely upon initial start up by installing an SPDT switch with a centre off position to the A/C thermostat ... allow the compressor to come up to speed, then turn on the fan ... one of the tricks I used to enable my EU2000i to start our 13,500 BTU Mach 3+ A/C. I wish the Micro-Air Easy Start had been available then and I was aware of it as I'm confident that would have been the better solution. 🙂

[pnichols]

An interesting discussion!

Just to maybe help out a bit - our RV's A/C control has two modes to control it's main circulation fan (the fan that pushes the air out of the interior vents): 1) Main circulation fan ON all the time, and 2) Main circulation fan ON only when the compressor is ON.

We like the to use the air conditioner's control mode that keeps the main circulation fan ON all the time. This provides for a much more even temperature throughout the interior - eliminating a feeling of the interior temperature ramping up while the A/C is totally OFF, followed by a feeling of the interior temperature ramping down while the A/C is completely ON.

What leaving this main circulation fan ON all of the time means with respect to generator loading is ... the air conditioner's start up current loading (compressor locked rotor large current spike plus main circulation fan locked shaft smaller current spike) on the generator is reduced because the main circulation fan is already running whenever the compressor starts.

For those having a digital A/C control with this dual-mode control of the main circulation fan, using the mode that keeps this fan ON all the time during air conditioning may mean that a marginally sized generator may power the air conditioner just fine as is (or at least with only a hard start capacitor added) .... while at the same time having a more comfortable even temperature inside the RV when using the air conditioning system during warm weather.

Also during weather that is only a bit warm, we set the air conditioner's digital control to run only the air conditioner's main circulation fan to provide great air movement throughout the RV's interior. When doing this while drycamping, we can use our super quiet 650 watt portable generator to supply the power for the air conditioner's main circulation fan.

[DieselBurps]

Okay, that makes sense, I see what you are saying about the condensor fan.

Looks like I will be making a phone call and giving this easy start a try. Will report back my results.

[Micro-Air]

DieselBurps wrote:
With my A/C turned on and when the compressor cycles or kicks off, the fan continues to run, so the fan timed delay seems like it would only matter on initial start up? Maybe the easy start compressor start sequence is enough to enable my A/C to cycle back on with the Honda generator in ECO mode?

Glad to be here to help!
If your particular A/C keeps the evaporator fan on after the compressor cycles off, and yours is a Coleman low-profile, then yours likely has two separate fan motors. All the Polar Cubs and Mach 8s do in fact have 2 separate motors. So, although the evaporator fan may keep on running, I believe the condenser fan motor will start up coincident with the compressor (normally). Then, since the EasyStart will only delay the compressor startup, the effect on the Honda's ECO mode behavior should be the same. That is, the condenser fan starting up should be enough extra load to kick the Honda up to high RPM before the compressor starting sequence orchestrated by the EasyStart begins 5 seconds later.

[DieselBurps]

Dieselburps - Your situation is a bit atypical since most of the time, a 2000W generator will not start a rooftop A/C of 13.5kBTUs or larger without an EasyStart. What BTU size does your truck camper have?

Thanks for taking the time to answer questions and join the discussion.

I am not sure what BTU my A/C is, the truck camper is a model 2010 year, my guess is it's either the 9,200 or 11,000 BTU Coleman mach unit.

EasyStart also allows you to run the generator with ECO mode turned on, so you can maximize fuel economy

This would be a huge benefit for me. My use is a little different than most, I work nights at a hospital and have to sleep during the day, last week in AZ the temps got as high as 95 degrees during the day, so you can imagine how hot it gets in the camper. When I fall asleep in the mornings it's usually not that hot yet, but I had to start the AC anyways because I knew it would be in the mid 90's that day, and the A/C would cycle on and off. I did this with my now sold Yamaha 2400IS generator which handled the cycling fine. Now that I am down to just the Honda 2000 watt generator, It has trouble cycling the AC compressor back on after it has cycled off. Once the A/C compressor is running I am able to run the Honda in ECO mode and it's pretty dang quiet, but it won't restart or cycle the compressor back on with it in ECO mode. ECO mode would also be nice, because like you said it uses less fuel and I have to keep the Honda generator running for 5-6 hours while I sleep.

Then, when the A/C's thermostat calls for cooling again, the fan will start up first, but the EasyStart then intentionally delays the compressor startup for a minimum of 5 seconds. The fan's current load is enough to cause the generator to exit ECO mode and jump to high-RPM (full power), so by the time the EasyStart begins its compressor startup sequence, the generator has attained full RPM and full power.

With my A/C turned on and when the compressor cycles or kicks off, the fan continues to run, so the fan timed delay seems like it would only matter on initial start up? Maybe the easy start compressor start sequence is enough to enable my A/C to cycle back on with the Honda generator in ECO mode?

[Micro-Air]

Hi everyone. I've been monitoring this thread and didn't want to interfere since I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression about our involvement on this forum. We're here to help, not give the hard sell. Many thanks to otrfun and Soundguy for their support and mention of our EasyStart product. I decided to join in now to try and answer the questions that just came up:

RSD559 wrote:
Item #2, how can it reduce start-up amps so drastically? It would be interesting to see if anyone has actually checked that claim out.

RSD599 - The reason the EasyStart can reduce the amps so dramatically is because it is truly a sophisticated, microprocessor-controlled device, that uses advanced power electronics to carefully orchestrate the compressor startup using a gentle voltage ramp, with realtime closed-loop rotational and current feedback. Both the hardware and the firmware are quite advanced, and it's taken us over 4 years to perfect it. EasyStart has and continues to be built-in by many OEMs into various types of A/C products, mostly marine and trucking applications. Our deeper involvement with RV rooftop applications started last summer, pretty much by accident, since we had no idea the market was such a good fit. THe need for EasyStart is driven by the need to start and run a typical RV rooftop A/C on the gold standard, 2000W generators. More on that below.

You can read all about EasyStart more at this link. Check out the YouTube video as well for some side-by-side comparison to a hard start. For testimonials, since I don't want to disrespect this forum by providing links to other forums, I would do some Google searches as Soundguy suggested. You'll find plenty of success stories from various owners forums like Lance, Casita, Airstream, and many more unbranded forums beyond that. Also, the famous "Gone with the Wynns" YouTube channel featured EasyStart in one of their RV videos and write-up in February 2016, and they're about to feature us again since I installed EasyStarts into their new boat last June. We're presently revamping our website and webstore now with the help of a marketing company, and they're collecting real testimonials from customers that we can publish with their permission. In the meantime though, there are plenty out there in the public domain.

DieselBurps wrote:

Thanks for breaking it all down for me.

I should provide an update. Well, I still have the yamaha 2000IS watt inverter generator but I picked up a brand new HONDA EU2000 for $750. I plan to sell the Yamaha.

Here is the test I conducted today, approximate stats, new generator, near sea level, not that hot out.

The Honda starts my truck campers AC unit with ECO mode OFF, no problem, no overload lights. It will also keep the AC running with ECO mode ON, it dials down the RPM's a bit, it is quite, at least enough for me. I am happy.

Challenges will be different environmental conditions, and the AC cycling on and off. I think this is where option #2 with a micro air or similar hard start kit comes in.

I need to research that now, and figure out how it works with an AC cycling on and off.

Dieselburps - Your situation is a bit atypical since most of the time, a 2000W generator will not start a rooftop A/C of 13.5kBTUs or larger without an EasyStart. What BTU size does your truck camper have? I know of one brand of truck camper that uses the 9.2kBTU Coleman rooftops, and those do typically start on 2000W generators with the factory-installed hardstart kits. But besides the obvious benefit of allowing your (13.5 or 15k) A/C to reliably start and run on a 2000W generator, EasyStart also allows you to run the generator with ECO mode turned on, so you can maximize fuel economy. I know you are most interested in this, so here's how it accomplishes that. During the night when the A/C might cycle off, with ECO mode turned on and as you are already aware, the generator will drop to its low RPM. Then, when the A/C's thermostat calls for cooling again, the fan will start up first, but the EasyStart then intentionally delays the compressor startup for a minimum of 5 seconds. The fan's current load is enough to cause the generator to exit ECO mode and jump to high-RPM (full power), so by the time the EasyStart begins its compressor startup sequence, the generator has attained full RPM and full power.

Beyond this, the reduction in the startup amps is quite amazing. 65-75% as otrfun cited. Recently, I did 2 installations into some Dometic Penguin II rooftops. Their 15kBTU unit has and LRA ratings of 52A. After EasyStart was done with its 5-start optimization "learning" process, the startup amps had dropped to about 15A. Given the running amps were in the neighborhood of 13A, that was even amazing to me! EasyStart really does work. Beyond this, as a test we loaded up the Honda EU2000i with about 3.5A of auxiliary load so that the total load would be just below its overload threshold after the A/C started (16.7A is the max for a Honda EU2000i). Even with 3.5A of load, the A/C started up with EasyStart installed and there was no overload fault. And better than this, the owner of this trailer was also happy that he could start and run 2 A/C units on a single 30A power cord, both with EasyStarts. Normally, a 50A hookup would be required for that, and those are much harder to find at many campsites.

-------------------

Hopefully the above helps clarify a few things. I'm here to answer questions, so please don't hesitate to ask away. Thank you again for everyone's interest in our EasyStart product.

[DieselBurps]

If you have an RV a/c unit which your solo EU2000i is unable to reliably start (under all conditions) because of a LRA greater than ~50 amps then you have have 4 options (least to most expensive):

1) Purchase/install a generic, inexpensive hard start kit for $10-$30. An effective option . . . if your a/c unit does not have one already installed. Many units have OEM hard start kits already installed at the factory. These kits can potentially reduce the LRA approx. ~10 percent---enough to improve starting characteristics in some situations. If your a/c unit already has one installed and/or your unit still won't start reliably after installing one, then on to option #2.

2) Purchase/install the more advanced, micro-processor controlled, Micro Air Easy Start kit for $300 - $350. This kit comes highly touted by some here. If the MAES kit does reduce the LRA 65-75 percent as advertised, then it is, indeed, a miracle device

3) Replace your current RV a/c unit with a unit that has a lower LRA (<=50a) for approx. $550 (on sale) - $800.

4) Purchase another EU2000i to parallel with your existing EU2000i for $900-$1000. Note: paralleling two EU2000i only increases the total inrush current capability (necessary to satisfy the a/c unit's LRA) approx. 10 percent (vs. one EU2000i). On a/c units with LRA's as high as 60 - 65 amps, you may need to run both EU2000i's with the Eco mode off to reliably start. On RV a/c units with extremely high LRA's (65 - 70 amps) a paralleled pair of EU2000i's may have trouble reliably starting these units even with the Eco mode off.

For those who have not yet purchased a second EU2000i or a RV a/c unit, highly suggest the purchase of an RV a/c unit with a LRA of 50 amps or lower in order to forego the expense of hard/soft start kits and/or a second EU2000i generator.

Thanks for breaking it all down for me.


I should provide an update. Well, I still have the yamaha 2000IS watt inverter generator but I picked up a brand new HONDA EU2000 for $750. I plan to sell the Yamaha.

Here is the test I conducted today, approxmiate stats, new generator, near sea level, not that hot out.

The Honda starts my truck campers AC unit with ECO mode OFF, no problem, no overload lights. It will also keep the AC running with ECO mode ON, it dials down the RPM's a bit, it is quite, atleast enough for me. I am happy.

Challenges will be different environmental conditions, and the AC cycling on and off. I think this is where option #2 with a micro air or similar hard start kit comes in.

I need to research that now, and figure out how it works with an AC cycling on and off.

[SoundGuy]

RSD559 wrote:
Item #2, how can it reduce start-up amps so drastically? It would be interesting to see if anyone has actually checked that claim out.

I've provided a link to testimonials about the Micro-Air Easy Start Soft Starter Kit on this forum so many times it's getting tiresome :R ... if you're so interested search it yourself. :W

[RSD559]

otrfun wrote:

RSD559 wrote:
Not trying to argue here, but what is the difference between an Easy Start kit and a hard start kit? Is there something more to the Easy Start? I've seen posts where people are running their 13,600 A/C with a 2000 watt generator. My Honda EU3000is wouldn't start my 13,600 without the hard start capacitors on the A/C. So they must be doing something!

If you have an RV a/c unit which your solo EU2000i is unable to reliably start (under all conditions) because of a LRA greater than ~50 amps then you have have 4 options (least to most expensive):

1) Purchase/install a generic, inexpensive hard start kit for $10-$30. An effective option . . . if your a/c unit does not have one already installed. Many units have OEM hard start kits already installed at the factory. These kits can potentially reduce the LRA approx. ~10 percent---enough to improve starting characteristics in some situations. If your a/c unit already has one installed and/or your unit still won't start reliably after installing one, then on to option #2.

2) Purchase/install the more advanced, micro-processor controlled, Micro Air Easy Start kit for $300 - $350. This kit comes highly touted by some here. If the MAES kit does reduce the LRA 65-75 percent as advertised, then it is, indeed, a miracle device 🙂

3) Replace your current RV a/c unit with a unit that has a lower LRA (<=50a) for approx. $550 (on sale) - $800.

4) Purchase another EU2000i to parallel with your existing EU2000i for $900-$1000. Note: paralleling two EU2000i only increases the total inrush current capability (necessary to satisfy the a/c unit's LRA) approx. 10 percent (vs. one EU2000i). On a/c units with LRA's as high as 60 - 65 amps, you may need to run both EU2000i's with the Eco mode off to reliably start. On RV a/c units with extremely high LRA's (65 - 70 amps) a paralleled pair of EU2000i's may have trouble reliably starting these units even with the Eco mode off.

For those who have not yet purchased a second EU2000i or a RV a/c unit, highly suggest the purchase of an RV a/c unit with a LRA of 50 amps or lower in order to forego the expense of hard/soft start kits and/or a second EU2000i generator.

Well said. Thank you. Item #2, how can it reduce start-up amps so drastically? It would be interesting to see if anyone has actually checked that claim out.

[otrfun]

RSD559 wrote:
Not trying to argue here, but what is the difference between an Easy Start kit and a hard start kit? Is there something more to the Easy Start? I've seen posts where people are running their 13,600 A/C with a 2000 watt generator. My Honda EU3000is wouldn't start my 13,600 without the hard start capacitors on the A/C. So they must be doing something!

If you have an RV a/c unit which your solo EU2000i is unable to reliably start (under all conditions) because of a LRA greater than ~50 amps then you have have 4 options (least to most expensive):

1) Purchase/install a generic, inexpensive hard start kit for $10-$30. An effective option . . . if your a/c unit does not have one already installed. Many units have OEM hard start kits already installed at the factory. These kits can potentially reduce the LRA approx. ~10 percent---enough to improve starting characteristics in some situations. If your a/c unit already has one installed and/or your unit still won't start reliably after installing one, then on to option #2.

2) Purchase/install the more advanced, micro-processor controlled, Micro Air Easy Start kit for $300 - $350. This kit comes highly touted by some here. If the MAES kit does reduce the LRA 65-75 percent as advertised, then it is, indeed, a miracle device 🙂

3) Replace your current RV a/c unit with a unit that has a lower LRA (<=50a) for approx. $550 (on sale) - $800.

4) Purchase another EU2000i to parallel with your existing EU2000i for $900-$1000. Note: paralleling two EU2000i only increases the total inrush current capability (necessary to satisfy the a/c unit's LRA) approx. 10 percent (vs. one EU2000i). On a/c units with LRA's as high as 60 - 65 amps, you may need to run both EU2000i's with the Eco mode off to reliably start. On RV a/c units with extremely high LRA's (65 - 70 amps) a paralleled pair of EU2000i's may have trouble reliably starting these units even with the Eco mode off.

For those who have not yet purchased a second EU2000i or a RV a/c unit, highly suggest the purchase of an RV a/c unit with a LRA of 50 amps or lower in order to forego the expense of hard/soft start kits and/or a second EU2000i generator.

[RSD559]

SoundGuy wrote:

rockwind1 wrote:
i run my 13,500 btu dometic on two hondas in parallel, no eco for starting. but i am interested in that soft start kit but **** it's expensive. anyone had any experience with them. is it made in usa?

RSD559 wrote:
The one in the ads is. You can get a generic kit for $30 or $40 online. Here's an example. This one is for Dometic units.
Dometic Hard Start Kit
You basically have to pull the cover off the AC unit and follow the directions on where to plug the leads in.e

Two entirely different animals. Expensive? ... sell one of the Hondas, use part of the proceeds to pay for an Easy Start which is not the same as that Dometic hard start kit, pocket the difference, and enjoy the simplicity of powering your A/C with just one 2K genset. I don't see where the debate is but if you want testimonials just search this site for Easy Start. In the meantime here's an interesting Micro-Air Easy Start YouTube Video on how to install one of these units. 🙂

Not trying to argue here, but what is the difference between an Easy Start kit and a hard start kit? Is there something more to the Easy Start? I've seen posts where people are running their 13,600 A/C with a 2000 watt generator. My Honda EU3000is wouldn't start my 13,600 without the hard start capacitors on the A/C. So they must be doing something!