Soldering in lugs?

[mlts22]

I saw an interesting way to handle battery lugs (the ones that are sealed:

1: Put heat shrink tubing on, move it well away from where the action is going to take place.

2: Pour molten solder into the lug, keep the lug heated.

3: Shove wires in, crimp. Let cool.

4: Move heat shrink tube back into place, heat that to seal the connection.

I've never tried this, but other than the fact that the lug has to be kept heated during the crimping process, would this be workable? The advantage of this is that the solder would help prevent oxidation.

[D_E_Bishop]

I lucked out a few years ago when I came across an Estate Sale for the estate of an Electrical Engineer from the City of Los Angeles, Dept of Water and Power. The departed it seems was a tinkerer and I purchased a few really high end tools for next to nothing. Among my finds were several crimpers for #10 to #2 wires. I guess I could look up the pressure that can be exerted but I accept that it is sufficient for automobile and MoHo wiring needs. I have purchased a number of #10 to #6 lugs in a variety of stud sizes and I don't think I'm going to have any problems with these crimped fittings.

So far I haven't needed to crimp anything larger than #6.

In my profession we made literally millions of splices and installed millions of AMP style crimp fittings. One of our vendors took to soldering and crimping crimp fittings. It prove no more reliable than just crimping. Most of our splices were in #'s 14, 12, and 10 wires bundled in cables and encased in buried conduits. We used 3M Scotchlok type splices and used PVC tape to keep moister and dirt out of the splices. Very few failures due to moisture. Certainly not enough to warrant shrink tube or gel filled scotchloks. Soldering never proved to be a better joint than a scotchlok.

Just my experiences over 32.913 years working in traffic signals.

[SCVJeff]

I agree.. #10 isn't 4/0. Personally I use a 12T crimper.. Pouring in solder then crimping is just asking for trouble IMO, starting with heat sinking the lug, the crystallizing the still cooling solder by deforming it while still crunchy. Either solder or crimp.. Both at the same time cannot end well

[TechWriter]

Gdetrailer wrote:

TechWriter wrote:

RoyB wrote:
There is a special 'art' when soldering connections that only a select few will master that over the years.

x2 - I tried, and was not one of the select few. Went to crimping and was far more successful.

There is no "special art" involved nor "luck" to making good solder connections.

It is more about UNDERSTANDING a few key and important items.

. . .

Take a look at how I made my OWN "ends" for 1/0 wire.. See page 37.

HERE

First, it's on page 36, not page 37.

Second, when OP said "battery lugs", I was thinking 4/0, not 1/0, and using terminal solder slugs.

Finally, on the Solder vs Crimp debate, I'm deferring to Jack Meyer who thinks crimping is best for high-amperage wire (#6 and greater).

[azrving]

I'm probably the only guy on here who bought a $50.00 bargain bin crimper but here is a cutaway of one of my crimps.



Seems "Tight" to me.

[azrving]

Gdetrailer,
It's just solder and I have seen them come apart. Whatever works for you is fine so dont get too excited, you may blow out an important organ. The crimper works just fine. I should just say you need to sort through the china sizes as they are not marked like American made ones. For a limited number of crimps I'm smart enough to not waste money on an overly expensive tool that may not get used again.

See, I even said all that with out throwing a tantrum. 🙂

[Gdetrailer]

rjxj wrote:
Solder is ok for most of the low amperage connections that we make on Rv's. If you use it on cables that get a heavy amp draw it can melt out.

They also make solder pellets that you can drop in the end of the fitting then heat and push the cable in.

I bought a china 16 ton hydraulic crimper and it works fine. The dies sizes are not perfect for the terminals sizes but it was only $48.00 with shipping.

Not true.

You are painting with a really broad brush.

There are many DIFFERENT solder formulations and each one HAS A DIFFERENT MELTING POINT.

Common 60/40 (Tin/lead) rosin core solder has a melting point of 360 degrees F. If you have a connection which gets THAT HOT you DID NOT solder that connection correctly in the first place. The reason for this is RESISTANCE makes heat in the joint and not properly soldering that joint WILL cause RESISTANCE!

You can get 40/60 solder which melts at about 460 degrees F but that is typically used for sheet metal body work known as "leading"..

Not to mention now days you have "lead free" electrical solders which use silver to replace some or all the lead and they melt at higher temps than 40/60.

I also hate to burst your bubble BUT, your crimper is worthless and will make extremely BAD crimps since the "dies" are NOT the correct sizes. Crimp connections DEPEND on having the CORRECT SIZED DIES which apply the CORRECT amount of pressure UNIFORMLY AROUND THE ENTIRE CONNECTOR AND WIRE.

I will take a badly soldered connection ANY DAY over a badly crimped connection since you can often spot badly soldered connections but badly crimped connects are HIDDEN until they fail.

If you are going to insist on crimping, BUY THE MORE EXPENSIVE NAME BRAND CRIMPERS instead of the bargain discount bin jobbers.

[azrving]

Solder is ok for most of the low amperage connections that we make on Rv's. If you use it on cables that get a heavy amp draw it can melt out.

They also make solder pellets that you can drop in the end of the fitting then heat and push the cable in.

I bought a china 16 ton hydraulic crimper and it works fine. The dies sizes are not perfect for the terminals sizes but it was only $48.00 with shipping.

[Gdetrailer]

TechWriter wrote:

RoyB wrote:
There is a special 'art' when soldering connections that only a select few will master that over the years.

x2 - I tried, and was not one of the select few. Went to crimping and was far more successful.

There is no "special art" involved nor "luck" to making good solder connections.

It is more about UNDERSTANDING a few key and important items.

#1 CLEAN contamination free wire.

#2 Proper heat source sized to the wire AND termination (IE 250W solder gun does not make a good heat source for 20 gauge wire).

#3 Proper solder for the material to be soldered (do not use plumbing solder and plumbing flux for electrical connections)

#4 PATIENCE.. Takes a certain amount of time to get wire and connector to the proper temperature to melt the solder but yet not apply too much heat which will melt the insulation and also overheat the wire causing the solder to not properly tin and bond to the wire.

#5 ALWAYS check the wire temp with your solder, simply put apply heat then start touching the solder to the wire.. When the wire and connector reach the proper solder melting point the solder will melt when touched and as long as wire and connecter are clean the solder will wick right in.. Sometimes you will need to remove the heat for a moment or two to prevent overheating, if removed too long the solder will no longer melt and if you need more solder simply reapply the heat source. Repeat until you have the amount of solder in the connection you desire.

Practice on some scrap wire will go a long way to making good solder joints!

Overheating is the number one mistake made and one that IS easy to avoid.

Take a look at how I made my OWN "ends" for 1/0 wire.. See page 37.

HERE

[TechWriter]

mlts22 wrote:
I saw an interesting way to handle battery lugs (the ones that are sealed:

1: Put heat shrink tubing on, move it well away from where the action is going to take place.

2: Pour molten solder into the lug, keep the lug heated.

3: Shove wires in, crimp. Let cool.

4: Move heat shrink tube back into place, heat that to seal the connection.

I've never tried this, but other than the fact that the lug has to be kept heated during the crimping process, would this be workable? The advantage of this is that the solder would help prevent oxidation.

If you go this route, make sure that your lugs are flared or you'll have a difficult time getting the wire in.

[TechWriter]

RoyB wrote:
There is a special 'art' when soldering connections that only a select few will master that over the years.

x2 - I tried, and was not one of the select few. Went to crimping and was far more successful.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Maybe an important point folks overlook is a tiny pencil torch for lugs up to 4 gauge and a mini torch for larger lugs.

Filling the lug does not work for me. I use 60/40 solder and paste flux. Flux the heck out of everything. Crimp lug to wire. Clamp terminal vertical (just an itty bitty piece of the terminal tip) in a vise or vise grips. Heat the terminal. This can take MINUTES be patient. When the visible dab of paste solder starts to bubble and melt get ready.

Feed a bit of solder between the lug and wire

If it makes a bubble, stop. Keep heating more. Watch the bubble.

When the bubble melts and flows the terminal IS NOT QUITE READY. Patience.

The terminal body will heat up before the copper wire does. So the solder bubble will melt vut if you start feeding solder now it will back up and overflow.

Feed -just enough solder to fill the terminal with a glob, keep heating and watch the glob. After a bit the wire gets hot enough to melt the solder. It instantly sucks the solder blob into the wire strands.

Start feeding solder. On a large terminal it will suck solder faster than you can feed it. Don't keep playing the flame on the joint, move it away now and then.

Finally! The joint fills up. The flux floating on top will overflow and then catch fire. Blow it out. You're finished...

[time2roll]

No need to add the complexity of solder.
Crimp, Seal, Done.

[RoyB]

There is a special 'art' when soldering connections that only a select few will master that over the years. I think will stick with my inexpensive $60 8-ton hand crimper. I know that always works for me...

After all is properly crimped in place then I too will add adhesive type heat shrink tubing to cover all of the open connections and seal-up from weather conditions.

Roy Ken

[K_Charles]

You can buy them with the solder already in them.