The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread

[pritch272]

8/1/2010 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: Champion Inverter and Remote Gens Promo on CPE's web site)

3/22/2011 edit: Thread renamed ...
Renamed from: Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

3/23/2011 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: (Un)Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

Inverter Available August 2010



Remote Available July 2010

[jas67]

It would be interesting to see the output of these (and the Hondas and Yamahas) on a scope?

If you look at the power inverter market, there huge difference in price and quality of power produced.

Any conventional generator is going to put out a sine wave, but inverters are another store. All cheap inverters are square wave (not to common any more) or modified-sine (most cheap ones). Pure sign inverters usually cost 2-5X the price of modified sign unit.

I would be willing to bet that the are probably some differences in power quality.

I had some modified sign inverters for power backup at my house, but I sold them because they were hard on motors. Fans sounded bad running on them (loud 60hz hum), and the motors in general ran a lot warmer on them. I didn't want to have to replace my well pump (again), or cause the premature death of a fridge or freezer.

If the CPE inverter is modified-sine output, then it might shorten the life of AC compressors used with them.

Just a thought...

[pritch272]

Skibane wrote:

pritch272 wrote:
Champion Inverter Gen estimated run times:

% of Full Load Run-Time
50 % load = 4.5 hours
Fuel Capacity 1 gallon

Using 1 gallon of gas to produce 800 watts for 4.5 hours is NOT particularly impressive, even by non-inverter standards. That's 0.277 gallons per KW per hour.

By comparison, an average small non-inverter generator will consume around 0.2 gallons per KW per hour.

The specs for the Honda states 4 hours runtime at rated load (1600 watts), which is a lot longer than the 2.5 hours for the Champion, yes, the Honda tank is 1.1 gal, still way better numbers.

Seems the Honda will give you 21.8 minutes of 1600 watts per 0.1 gallon vs the Champion with 15 minutes per 0.1 gallon. Big difference in fuel consumption at rated load.

Thats an extra gallon of gas to run the Champ for every 8 hours at 1600 watts. Could add up over time. If the Champ is $400 cheaper than a Honda, that would be 160 gallons (@ $2.50 / gallon). You would be better off with a Honda if your anticipated use would be greater than 160 8 hour days (using 1600 watts), taking only fuel consumption numbers into consideration.

[Skibane]

pritch272 wrote:
Champion Inverter Gen estimated run times:

% of Full Load Run-Time
50 % load = 4.5 hours
Fuel Capacity 1 gallon

Using 1 gallon of gas to produce 800 watts for 4.5 hours is NOT particularly impressive, even by non-inverter standards. That's 0.277 gallons per KW per hour.

By comparison, an average small non-inverter generator will consume around 0.2 gallons per KW per hour.

[Wayne_Dohnal]

A comparison of some things can be made with an eu2000i with info from the manuals:

1. Some sort of sync cable is used with parallel operation, so this isn't a Honda or Yamaha clone. Could possibly be a Kipor clone/copy.

2. Total power of parallel connected units is 3,000 watts. Since this is 25 amps at 120 volts, it suggests that the factory parallel kit has its own outlet. I believe a pair of eu2000i will support 3,200 VA continuous.

3. The 2,000 watt rating is for a maximum of 5 seconds, vs. 30 minutes for eu2000i. (To be fair, my eu2000i won't supply 2,000 VA or watts. On a warm day at 500' it maxes out at about 1,875. Maybe it's better on a cold day in Death Valley.)

4. Canadian units can be run in parallel vs. not so with eu2000i.

5. Output rating is in watts vs. VA for eu2000i. Either a mistake, or a solid advantage.

6. No statement in manual about a floating or bonded output, vs. floating for eu2000i. The wiring diagram seems to indicate a floating output. No caution in the manual that outlet testers will indicate "open ground".

Then there's the usual CYA stuff that is totally unreasonable and won't hardly, if ever, be followed:

1. Run unit every 14 days for 20 minutes.
2. Connect chassis to a ground rod.

[pritch272]

CPE now has additional info (specs, manuals, parts lists, wiring diagrams, etc) on their web site.

US Only Version Model 73531i

Canadian Only Version Model 73552i

Still do not see them on either of Samsclub or Cabellas web sites. Haven't been in the local Samsclub within the last couple of weeks, so not sure if any have made their way there yet.

[beemerphile1]

I was at Sam's Club last Sunday and they didn't have the new Champion.

[ATS_Aaron]

I just did a similar test between my dads Coleman 2500 watt and my new Champion 3500 watt. The bigger Champion is quieter than the Coleman. PS I got the Champion 3500 because I got tired of waiting for the inverter model.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDBFLfnvsQM&feature=youtube_gdata

[bradyk]

Looked at it at Costco here in Calgary yesterday. They had 2 skid full that I saw at the south store. Looks interesting and I think if you buy them you get 2 and parallel them. Did the lift and it is mobile for sure and is as square and stacking as it looks in the pictures. I think I will wait until version 2 comes out as I always like to wait for the bugs out. My 3500/4000 Champion works very well and if the 2000 does I may make a move. I still would like to see a Boily style unit that is smaller with electric remote start and quiet as the perfect unit. Wife sometimes needs to start it while I am fishing and with a bad should sometimes is a hard pull on the Champion. Let's just watch the reports. If Costco brings in that many to all locations there should be many of them out there for reports.

[canadiankid]

Wouldn't it be nice if someone "Are you listening CPE" could youtube a full test comparison of Champions 2000 vs Honda's vs Yamaha's. I would like to see them under full load until they stall to see how much each can take and to see a sound reading while this is being done. Maybe someone that has a Honda has a friend with a Yamaha and another friend with a CPE could all get together (wouldn't that be nice).

[D__L__Allen_HOG]

Does anyone know when Champion is going to put the 2000 Inverter on their web site so we can get the specs and see the manual?

I'm anxious to see the info.

[canadiankid]

I would think that a $450 price would be fair in the US. At $700 it would be well worth it to get the Honda or Yamaha for $200 more. In Canada the $500 price tag is a great deal as long as they turn out to be a good generator (I don't have the extra $$ to find this out, so I will wait).

[traveln_circus]

I see they are beging to hit the market onhe internet but at 699.00 I will stick with the Honda 2k.

[professor95]

None of these generators have a 12 DC outlet that I would want to attach to a battery that I was not determined to ruin. Same is true for the models like the new ES/RC CAT5 that have a battery on board. Battery life will be limited if all charging is dependent on the 12 VDC output of the generator. On my ES 40008 I removed the battery and start from the house batteries in the camper. I disabled the 12 VDC charging circuit.

They all have an UNREGULATED output that does not care what the battery state of charge is. Typically, it is a separate winding with a 1/2 wave rectifier. This is true for the inverters as well as the synchronous.

If you want to recharge batteries you value directly from a generator use a good 3 or 4 stage charger plugged into the 120 VAC outlet.

[Old___Slow]

Fixx wrote:
I bought one in Calgary two days ago. I opened the box, added oil and gas, gave it one pull and it was purring ever so smooth. I hooked it up to my trailer and waa shocked at the apparent quality. I tried the fan, fridge etc and no problem. When I tried the microwave, thats when the dissapointment started. It would not rev up to meet the wattage needed with nothing else on. Instead it would vibrate roughly and not power the mic to full. When I tried the coffee maker it would rev up ( Quietly ) and power it no problem. I am thinking this will not run at 1600 watt as promised. I had a friend bring his 2000 watt honda over and it handled it without a problem. The db seemed exact and I am picky. I will contact Champion on Monday and keep you posted.

Dissapointed

From all indication, the HONDA EU2000i is the 'Gold Standard' already set. All others will have to meausure up. The Champion side by side with further testing will surly prove the point. If the Champion 2000i can produce 1600 true watts as promised and with the same dbA as the Honda EU 2000i, we will have real competition. And all those folks who are standing by for the results, to see if the price of the Honda will come down, hold on. This will be most interesting.:@

[pritch272]

MrWizard wrote:
Champion responded with real world numbers, how many boondockers park on concrete? , there is a big sound reflection difference between trees and concrete with buildings,
Also most of the time it won't be at full load, that's MW, hair dryer, A/C when you are inside,
D oes anybody have the published test conditions for honda

I tried to find the test conditions, didn't find any from Honda, but did find where the University of Alabama in 2006 published a PDF of noise tests at 25 feet which shows a single Honda 2000i at 1500w as well as twins with measurements at various points around. The twins at 3000w come in around 65dBA (single about 2.5dBA less).

Edit on 8/6:
It would be nice to see CPE's noise measurements taken at 7 meters at the same 16 points (all around the generator, with exhaust pointing at 0 degrees like the PDF for the Honda tests show) so we can compare. The 65dBA I noted above for the twin Honda's producing 3000 watts was from the noisiest direction (basically the exhaust end, maybe 66dBA @ 315 degrees, wind blowing in that direction) where if you look at the direction where the noise is lowest you get close to 57.5dBA @ 180 degrees for the twin Honda's. Consider twin CPE's, 2 of them running at 65dBA each could result in about gain of 2.5 to 3? So if twin CPE's at 3000w were being tested could we expect to see a combined noise of 67-68 dBA? Could CPE be reporting the noise from the noisiest direction and that if you were to measure all around you could mirror the Honda? If so, then add 3 to the reading for 2 generators running at 1500w each.

For apples to apples, looking at just 1 Honda, the noisiest looks to be maybe 63dBA at 315 degrees. It all depends if CPE is reporting best case or worst case for the 65dBA reading. As the wizard noted, concrete could alter the noise (higher reading due to non absorption?).

Just trying to see how close they compare in noise. (Aren't we all.) Could they actually be pretty close in noise after all?