The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread

[pritch272]

8/1/2010 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: Champion Inverter and Remote Gens Promo on CPE's web site)

3/22/2011 edit: Thread renamed ...
Renamed from: Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

3/23/2011 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: (Un)Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

Inverter Available August 2010



Remote Available July 2010

[professor95]

I got to thinking about this fuel economy thing sometime between 2:30 a.m. and 4:00 a.m. (I often find my best solutions while I am asleep - my mind won't slow down unless I drug it. 😞 ).

Both the Honda eu2000i at 98 cc and CPE 2000i at 80 cc are (have available) CARB approved engines.

I know enough about CARB (and EPA) to perhaps be dangerous. Anyway, there are certain requirements an engine must meet to gain CARB emissions approval.

One of those is a specific level at the exhaust of oxides of nitrogen, carbon monoxide and % of unburned hydrocarbons, which is related to air/fuel ratio and the completeness of the burn in the cylinder.

CARB regulations now require charcoal vapor fuel recovery canisters, a catalytic converter type of muffler where secondary air is often injected, carburetors with fixed jetting so one cannot fool with the A/F mixture and crankcase vapor loops sort of like the simple PCV systems of older automobiles. CARB certification testing is performed at both the most efficient engine operating speed and load as well as the least efficient operating speed and load.

"If" the difference in published fuel economy were as great as the numbers we are considering, the 80 cc CPE engine compared to the 98 cc Honda engine would have to be slugging down fuel like a cowboy does whiskey in an old-town saloon and spewing liters of unburned hydrocarbons out the exhaust pipe. That would throw all of the necessary parameters for CARB approval so far off that not even China would allow operation in their smog tolerant cities.

I just finished reading the Honda eu2000 manual. Nothing about fuel economy run-times in the manual.

On the Honda web site the info given is up to 9.6 hours of operation on one gallon of gas. There is no mention of how much load the generator is operating under for that number.

Champion is stating 9.5 hours of operation at 25% load.

From what I see on the OFFICIAL manufacturer's web sites the economy is equal.

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:

pritch272 wrote:


The specs for the Honda states 4 hours runtime at rated load (1600 watts), which is a lot longer than the 2.5 hours for the Champion, yes, the Honda tank is 1.1 gal, still way better numbers.

I'm inclined to think the published fuel usage times are skewed. Honda owners will need to verify or refute the ratings.

My Kipor KGE2000Ti will not run anything like 4 hours at 1600 watts. It has the same size engine and design as the Honda and the same size fuel tank.

As I pointed out earlier both are non-computer controlled, carburetor-ed, 2 valve, OHV, spark ignition engines. Without fuel injection, variable timing, oxygen sensors, computer management and possibly variable cam timing there is no way that fuel economy could be as diverse as published.

Prof,

As I read the story, yes the Kipor and Honda have non-computer tech in the module and the Champion is different. In the Champion is the Computer Inverter tech, correct?

[tvman44]

I agree with prof95, there cannot possibly be that much difference. I would have to see it with my own 2 eyes to believe it.

[pritch272]

It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out. I was blindly accepting the 4 hours at rated load, so all we need now is someone to do an actual runtime test with 1600 watts and a clock.

[Wayne_Dohnal]

Interesting numbers here
Honda 400w *9.6 hrs = 3840 whrs

CPE 1600W * 2.4hrs = 3840 whrs

1600w * 4hrs = 6400 whrs

Now pray TELL how does Honda pull of this miracle of getting almost 2x the Watt hrs out of a 1.1 gallons of fuel while working 4x as hard

I've interpreted the Honda statement of "1/4 power" to be from the maximum load instead of the continuous load, leading me to use 500 watts instead of 400 watts for the eu2000i. This makes my numbers different, but doesn't change the point I want to make. According to the Honda website numbers:

eu1000i: 5.7 kWh/gallon @ 900 watts, 3.125 kWh/gallon @ 225 watts
eu2000i: 5.8 kWh/gallon @ 1600 watts, 4.35 kWh/gallon @ 500 watts
eu3000i: 5.93 kWh/gallon @ 2800 watts, 4.41 kWh/gallon @ 750 watts

My point is that Honda claims better fuel-to-power efficiency at the higher power levels for all 3 models. If it's true for Honda, I'd expect it to be true for Champion. And I lean towards viewing all of it suspiciously until somebody here makes careful actual measurements. With the way the manufacturers warp specs, who knows how they might have corrupted this one?

[MrWizard]

Interesting numbers here
Honda 400w *9.6 hrs = 3840 whrs

CPE 1600W * 2.4hrs = 3840 whrs,
rated 2.5 hrs @ 1600 = 4000 whrs

1600w * 4hrs = 6400 whrs

Now pray TELL how does Honda pull of this miracle of getting almost 2x the Watt hrs out of a 1.1 gallons of fuel while working 4x as hard

The first TWO make perfect sense
The third makes impossible claims
That statement of Four hrs at 1600 watts load is obviously not possible, but is being blindly quoted from some website

I think there is s typo and its supposed to say 1600 @ 2.4 hrs NOT 4 hrs 😉

[DSchmidt_2000]

professor95 wrote:

As I pointed out earlier both are non-computer controlled, carburetor-ed, 2 valve, OHV, spark ignition engines. Without fuel injection, variable timing, oxygen sensors, computer management and possibly variable cam timing there is no way that fuel economy could be as diverse as published.

Could be due to gaining weight but the data I've seen suggests that just going to EFI doesn't guarantee better fuel economy at least in cars. Some cars did better with carbs than when EFI came out (like the Geo Metro). Certainly emissions are better controlled with EFI.

Honda owners will need to verify or refute the ratings.

Is there a corresponding "official unofficial Honda EU2000i" thread?

[professor95]

pritch272 wrote:


The specs for the Honda states 4 hours runtime at rated load (1600 watts), which is a lot longer than the 2.5 hours for the Champion, yes, the Honda tank is 1.1 gal, still way better numbers.

I'm inclined to think the published fuel usage times are skewed. Honda owners will need to verify or refute the ratings.

My Kipor KGE2000Ti will not run anything like 4 hours at 1600 watts. It has the same size engine and design as the Honda and the same size fuel tank.

As I pointed out earlier both are non-computer controlled, carburetor-ed, 2 valve, OHV, spark ignition engines. Without fuel injection, variable timing, oxygen sensors, computer management and possibly variable cam timing there is no way that fuel economy could be as diverse as published.

[pritch272]

Wayne Dohnal wrote:

pritch272 wrote:
This is if all you do is run at *that* load. I suspect that *loaded* there is a substantial difference.

What do you think the difference is, and why?

The specs for the Honda states 4 hours runtime at rated load (1600 watts), which is a lot longer than the 2.5 hours for the Champion, yes, the Honda tank is 1.1 gal, still way better numbers.

Seems the Honda will give you 21.8 minutes of 1600 watts per 0.1 gallon vs the Champion with 15 minutes per 0.1 gallon. Big difference in fuel consumption at rated load.

Thats an extra gallon of gas to run the Champ for every 8 hours at 1600 watts. Could add up over time. If the Champ is $400 cheaper than a Honda, that would be 114 gallons (@ $3.50 / gallon). You would be better off with a Honda if your anticipated use would be greater than 114 8 hour days (using 1600 watts), taking only fuel consumption numbers into consideration.


Did I misread the rated load runtimes? Is my math skewed?

[Tystevens]

Well, I got much more use out of my new CPE 2000i last week than I anticipated. It was a very busy week leading up to our first week-long trip of the year, and I didn't have time to go through much of anything by way of preparation. It turns out, my 4 yr old house batteries were shot, which is no surprise given my neglect of them. Since they wouldn't hold a charge, and temps ranged between 24* and 55*, we had to run the CPE virtually any time we wanted to run the furnace or more than a few lights for any time at all.

The CPE just chugged right along. I didn't time how long I used it (I was camping, not testing), but I'd venture to guess we got about 20 hrs on it and used 2 tanks of fuel. Very quiet -- placed on the far side of the trailer, most of the family didn't even notice it. As luck would have it, the adjacent site had a brand new red 2000 genset (in Moab, adjacent sites are usually a hundred feet apart). Placing myself approximately the same distance from both, my CPE didn't seem any louder than the red one did.

With the house inverter in full dump mode virtually the whole time, the CPE wouldn't run much other than lights and the furnace fan. I tried the microwave a couple times (15 amp, I think), and it wouldn't go. Once I finally got new batteries -- the part stores were out early in the week, apparently lots of people on their first trips of the year with bad batteries! -- it would run the microwave and would heat food, but it didn't sound quite right. Oh well, I don't think I've even used the microwave before, so not a big deal.

Overall, I was happy with the purchase. My wife was thrilled, since we would have frozen the first few nights without it, as I was getting up a couple times to start it and run the furnace. It does have a tendency to lope when on econ and charging the batteries, which makes the quiet sound more noticeable, but overall, it did exactly what I was hoping it would do.

[Old___Slow]

It seems important to get it all correct on this thread. So, the Champion 2000i is listed as "Champion Golbal Power Equipment" Not CPE!:S Okay, now, missing on the 'link' is the RMP:h

[DSchmidt_2000]

MrRchitty wrote:
It's spelled out in this link.

There you will find the db ratings along with fuel usage based on load.

Good point. Thanks for that link

[MrRchitty]

Wayne Dohnal wrote:

pritch272 wrote:
This is if all you do is run at *that* load. I suspect that *loaded* there is a substantial difference.

What do you think the difference is, and why?

It's spelled out in this link.

There you will find the db ratings along with fuel usage based on load.

[Wayne_Dohnal]

pritch272 wrote:
This is if all you do is run at *that* load. I suspect that *loaded* there is a substantial difference.

What do you think the difference is, and why?

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
Well, why can't we go to the 'Coleman Polar Cub" @ 9200 btu ~1/3 hp compressor~900/1100 watts~ full load rated @ 8.00a, for use with the 2000i Inverters. No problem for the Honda EU2000i~~~both nice and quiet. Better than my Onan and the 13,500 btu noise makers. Would be great for sleeping. Or maybe I'm just to darn old for all the noise and my ears are not so good either.:(

It makes good sense for the second A/C in the bedroom area.

Unfortunately, the lesser BTU is not lesser priced. 2nd problem is nary a dealer stocks the thing - it has to be special ordered.

If you remember, I made my bedroom rooftop air conditioner by gutting a Dometic A/C case and swapping in a 6,000 BTU Samsung window A/C. Everything was posted here.

Not only does it hum along and keep the bedroom cool, it works great off of a 2000i, the Kipor or even the battery power inverter.