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The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread

pritch272
Explorer
Explorer
8/1/2010 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: Champion Inverter and Remote Gens Promo on CPE's web site)


3/22/2011 edit: Thread renamed ...
Renamed from: Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread


3/23/2011 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: (Un)Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread


Inverter Available August 2010



Remote Available July 2010

2007 Keystone Laredo 29RL, 2000 Ford F250 7.3 PSD, Firestone bags, Pressure Pro, 16" Michelin XPS Ribs, MorRyde Pin Box, Dexter EZ-Flex, PI EMS-HW30C, Dirt Devil CV950 Central Vacuum, 2000W AllPower by Kipor, 4000/3500W Champion C46540
2,927 REPLIES 2,927

byates
Explorer
Explorer
mskobier wrote:
Hello All,
I found this group the other day. The reason for joining was that I purchased a returned 2000i (red) from a store that sells returned merchandise. Needless to say, I got an excellent deal on the generator.
The store allows the potential buyer to test run the generators prior to purchasing since there is NO warranty, and you take your chances. I removed the generator from its box added oil and gas (provided by the store) and attempted to start it. It started on the secoond pull and ran up to full throttle since the econ switch was turned off. Plugged a fan into the gen and it ran fine. However the gen would not settle down to a steady speed. I figured it was old gas or something similar and decided to take the chance and purchased the gen.

Mitch


I'm confused again - the poster on 3/7/11 said:

"As the common saying goes, "S**t Happens." I have been told that most of the 2000i returns to CPE have nothing sent with them to indicate why they are returned. Big box stores like Costco or Sam's take them back and ship them to CPE's warranty service department with NO documented user problems or complaints. It is then CPE's responsibility to determine what (if anything) is wrong. Many returns never show a fault - so go figure? CPE does not resell any refurbished or returned products in the USA or Canada. What they do with them is not shared openly but I do know many are simply destroyed. The EPA prohibits this without extensive emissions re-certification. Thus, a high return rate can get pretty darn expensive to a company committed to customer satisfaction and service."

But of course, pointing out this discrepancy could be construed as a snipe. So be it. I am convinced that CPE is aware of the solution to this problem, but as the poster on 3/7 said, recall repair and/or resell can get pretty darn expensive.

professor95
Explorer
Explorer
JConatser wrote:
Excellent post, Mitch... thank you. I dare say you've just zeroed in on the cause of 90% of the burping/surging issues.


Mitch,
I've done what you explained on a Homelite 2-cycle weed eater and blower recently. Both were about a year old and would not idle. The carburetor was constructed so that it was not possible at adjust the low or high speed screw unless you destroy the caps over the adjustment screws. While both of them work perfectly now, it really PO'ed me to have to do this.

Our EPA and CARB do not believe the owner of such equipment is capable of adjusting the float level nor low or high speed jetting. There preference is for us to take it to someone certified to work on small engines and the preferred fix is to replace the carburetor. The part that is scary is that we have only seen the tip of the iceberg related to what the EPA wants to implement for small engines to lower emissions. It appears that a time will soon come where we simply cannot work on the engines - period. They will become disposable and incapable of rebuilding.

EPA also has a proposal (no hearing or rule making yet) that would make it against the law for any of us to change our engine oil at home.

Good job getting the low speed working correctly. It will be interesting to see how long he genny holds it's settings.
Professor Randy T. Agee & Nancy Agee. Also Oscar, the totally ruined Dachshund.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.

JConatser
Explorer
Explorer
Excellent post, Mitch... thank you. I dare say you've just zeroed in on the cause of 90% of the burping/surging issues.
Ameri-Lite 24RB
2003 Chevy 1500 Ext Cab, 5.7L
Equal-i-zer Hitch

mskobier
Explorer
Explorer
Hello All,
I found this group the other day. The reason for joining was that I purchased a returned 2000i (red) from a store that sells returned merchandise. Needless to say, I got an excellent deal on the generator.
The store allows the potential buyer to test run the generators prior to purchasing since there is NO warranty, and you take your chances. I removed the generator from its box added oil and gas (provided by the store) and attempted to start it. It started on the secoond pull and ran up to full throttle since the econ switch was turned off. Plugged a fan into the gen and it ran fine. However the gen would not settle down to a steady speed. I figured it was old gas or something similar and decided to take the chance and purchased the gen.

I have lots of experience with small engines/generators, so a little tinkering on it would not be a problem. Took it home and ran a few tests. The generator would not idle smoothly with a light or no load. I hooked up a 1500 watt electric heater and it would run the heater ok. The engine was still not running smoothly. I have read several post on this forum about these gens "burping/surging/hunting" which describes what mine was doing. I unplugged the carb servo motor from the control unit and proceeded to test the engine. After all of the tests were completed, it was apparent that there was an issue with the idle/slow speed circuit of the carb. I removed the carb from the gen and proceeded to take it apart to inspect it. This is what I found.

The inside of the carb was spotlessly clean as it should be. During the very close inspection, I noticed that the idle mixture screw appeared to be screwed in all the way. This was because I could see the small brass tip in the idle circuit hole which is located down stream of the throttle butterfly. Anyway, as with most all gas engines sold in the US, the idle adjustment has a small metal plug installed in the opening to prevent adjustment. Something to do with emission standards. Anyway, I drilled a small hole in the plug, screwed a small self tapping screw into the hold and with a pair of pliers, removed the plug. I could then access the idle mixture adjustment screw. I noted how many turns out the screw was (2 complete tures from fully closed) and removed the adjustment screw. Upon inspection, I fould a small piece of brass wedged in the idle circuit opening. With a small pick and some compressed air, I was able to remove the obstruction. I cleaned up the end of the adjustment needle, and re-assembled the carb and reinstalled on the engine. Hooked the fuel tank back up, and attempted to start the engine. It took a couple of pulls, and the engine roared to life. Now I still had the servo disconnected from the control module. The engine would now idle very smoothly and down to a fairly low rpm. It also would run smoothly at high rpms too. I shut the engine down and reconnected the servo to the contol, and re-started the engine. I had the econ mode turned off at this time. The engine fired right up and ran smoothly. I turned the econ swithc on, and the engine settled down to a nice smooth low rpm idle. Everything was looking good. I hooked up several different loads to the generator and everything worked great.

Anyway to make a very long post (sorry) short, the problem with my gen was the obstructed idle circuit. Once it was cleaned out and re-set, it is now working perfectly. If anyone is having this sort of issue, and has some mechanical ability, that is where I would look to find the problen. Since the openings are so small on these carbs, any bit of foreign material in the the low speed circuit will cause the hunting issues.

Again, I am sorry for the long post, I figured some detail might help someone else resolve their unstable throttle issues.

Mitch

professor95
Explorer
Explorer
blatant wrote:

so is the yellow the "new" one or the "red" Thought you alluded to the Red one being the newest version? Just want to be clear since i can buy either locally.


There is a (older) yellow, a new RED and a NEW Yellow. As far as I know, the New Red is available and the new yellow is just becoming available. Other than color, the latter appear to be the same - Lemon or Cherry, get one without the circuit breaker.
Professor Randy T. Agee & Nancy Agee. Also Oscar, the totally ruined Dachshund.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.

MrRchitty
Explorer
Explorer
Click on the Professor's name and click on posts. He did a write up with pictures. At least it will cut the pages to search. It would work.
Randall J. Chittenden
CT
Fire/Medic
Former Auto Parts Sales 12 years

-_dwh_-
Explorer
Explorer
stevei565 wrote:
Just bought a Champion 2000 at Sam's Club for $489 plus $40 for 3 year extended warranty to use for my diesel Bounder. The diesel genset in the Bounder was running at least 3/4 of a gallon without a load so I figured the Champion would pay for itself in a moderate amount of time. It is much quieter also (it is a 6500K 1992 model)! For the times I need power just for satellite, TV and inverter it will work fine. I have read MANY of the pages on this forum looking for information on an external gas tank setup. There was some mention but I could not locate any post that mentioned successfully making and using one. Can someone spare me looking through the other 95 or so pages?


The external tank setup works when the generator has a fuel pump. The Honda, the Kipor (pretty sure) and the original Honeywell (XG-SF2000) have a fuel pump that is operated by pulsing vacuum from the engine.

On those, it's not a big deal to rig a line from an external tank to to a hole in the top of the gen's fuel cap and let the vacuum suck the gas from the external tank into the gen's tank.


On a gen without a fuel pump - such as my 80cc 1200w Champion synchronous generator, or the Champion inverter generator that this thread is devoted to - then to rig an external tank would require that it be a gravity feed setup.

That's a little trickier...

Probably the simplest way (and I've thought about this quite a bit) is an either/or valve so the gen runs either from the on-board tank, or flip the valve and it runs from the external tank.



But there's really no point with the gen I have now (Champion, but NOT the inverter gen discussed here). I have to add a bit of oil every time I fill the fuel tank (1.2g), so if I rigged a bigger external tank, I'd just run into a low oil shutdown eventually anyway.

blatant
Explorer
Explorer
professor95 wrote:
Things evolve.


Engineers learned from the "Red" - features were incorporated into the new yellow. Rumor is the module delay is now 800 ms. This delay would trip the 13.3 amp CB - but it is gone so now we just bog down the engine a little. Yep - it can now kick 1750 watts before it stalls.



so is the yellow the "new" one or the "red" Thought you alluded to the Red one being the newest version? Just want to be clear since i can buy either locally.

stevei565
Explorer
Explorer
Just bought a Champion 2000 at Sam's Club for $489 plus $40 for 3 year extended warranty to use for my diesel Bounder. The diesel genset in the Bounder was running at least 3/4 of a gallon without a load so I figured the Champion would pay for itself in a moderate amount of time. It is much quieter also (it is a 6500K 1992 model)! For the times I need power just for satellite, TV and inverter it will work fine. I have read MANY of the pages on this forum looking for information on an external gas tank setup. There was some mention but I could not locate any post that mentioned successfully making and using one. Can someone spare me looking through the other 95 or so pages?

professor95
Explorer
Explorer
Things evolve.

Newer versions or revisions are often made without much fanfare. Changing model numbers can be complex due to EPA and CARB certification - much easier to just make production changes as needed than to introduce a new model.

Sometimes engineers and management listen.... really!

Our comments, disappointments and wishes are listened to more than we may realize. You can bet your sweet bippie that management follows what is openly posted about their product.

This is my take (NO - I'm not going to even suggest it is insider information).

The generators are produced in "runs" - Several thousand at a time.

Each run is packed into a shipping container and comes to the USA where they are distributed to retailers - like Costco.

New "runs" incorporate changes - either through knowledge of known limitations or engineering changes that the company sees as an improvement.

As current inventory is depleted, the newer equipment filters in. When an event like a hurricane comes to town, this happens at a much faster rate as warehouse inventories can be sucked down quickly.

Sometimes a particular retailer that has considerable influence specifies a specific model, or features. We see this a lot in the 3,000 watt synchronous line for companies like Home Depot, Lowe's and UltraFab. No reason to expect the inverter genny world is any different.

The first USA models had 13.3 amp circuit breakers - this was 1,596 watts. The overload delay of the original module was 250 ms. It would trip out before the CB. You could exceed the breaker limit, but only for a couple of seconds, with a purely resistive load. 1,600 watts was it - period. As I shared earlier, the CB was a requirement for the Canadian Standards model, not the USA. But, early models for the USA and CN were both equipped with the CB.

The next batch of models destined for the USA lost the CB. No more limit to 1,600 watts there. The delay was bumped to 400 ms. Guess the engineers decided no damage would be done with a longer delay. These units kicked somewhat harder than the first "run".

Engineers learned from the "Red" - features were incorporated into the new yellow. Rumor is the module delay is now 800 ms. This delay would trip the 13.3 amp CB - but it is gone so now we just bog down the engine a little. Yep - it can now kick 1750 watts before it stalls.

Can you lose the circuit breaker on the first run USA models? Sure - it really is not needed. Just open the box and put a jumper around it.

Can you get a 800 ms. delay module? You will need to talk with CPE and see what they will do. A recent comment by one of the current techs at CPE during a phone conversation may have been a slip of the tongue. This makes me suspect the ability to reprogram the modules is no longer limited to China - apparently it can be done at the CPE facility in California. NOTE: RUMOR, RUMOR, RUMOR. BTW - My friend Paul Cole has retired and is no longer a current CPE phone tech. See my post on the 3,000 Watt Chinese Genny Info thread for more info on this.

So, what is the bottom line? Well, the original 2000i can be modified to perform like the newer models by jumping the CB and updating the control module software. How to do this is not the intent of my comments.

Has this improved the PF issue? Apparently not. The design of the inverter module dictates the ability to handle low PF numbers - not the delay length or CB. To get around this issue with the current design and software will (IMHO) ultimately require a module rated for a higher wattage on the front end - maybe 2,400 to 3,000 watts???
Professor Randy T. Agee & Nancy Agee. Also Oscar, the totally ruined Dachshund.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.

MrRchitty
Explorer
Explorer
Hybridhunter wrote:
MrRchitty wrote:
.... I will tell you, I am very, very pleased. It's like I had the Honda.


You had to say it......
Just like a Honda, except you have tinkered with it to make it run better.....
And a Honda will run a 55 amp converter, full load in boost mode, the CPE will not.
You may like you're generator, but it's no Honda.



You're right. It's not a Honda. :S

Dollar for dollar, and working with the company. It's a pretty good bargain.

Having experience with the Honda 2000i at the firehouse no doubt it is a great machine. We overloaded it at a fire scene last week. 500 watts of lights and a ventilation fan. It is an older fan, numbers are missing from it. But we overloaded it. No harm, no foul. Unplugged everything and restarted it. We moved the fan to a more powerful generator...the one built in to the ladder truck hydraulic power take off system and 100ft of 12 guage cord. We left the lights with the Honda generator for ease of portability for the investigation.

As a note to the person who referenced possibly being able to shut the Honda off for quick moment and then back on before the motor comes to a complet stop...to avoid having to pull the recoil, I could see that. The overload light went out before the motor came to a complete stop, but I missed the moment.
Randall J. Chittenden
CT
Fire/Medic
Former Auto Parts Sales 12 years

MrRchitty
Explorer
Explorer
blatant wrote:
So how do you get a red vs a yellow? Just luck until the yellow's are sold through? I think most of the costco's/ sams around me are all yellow?

Also, how do i tweak my preferences here to see pics? Thanks again.


Anything else I should know or take into account regarding this unit? 196pgs is was alot!


Top right hand side, click on "my forums".

When the new page loads, in the blue bar, click on "my preferences".

Towards the bottom of the page, there are check boxes. I believe is the third check box in the group of four, references being able to view pictures that are part of the post.

As far as anything you should now, if you covered the pages you did, I think you got it covered. If you spend around the $500 mark, it's a great bargain.


Good Luck.
Randall J. Chittenden
CT
Fire/Medic
Former Auto Parts Sales 12 years

Hybridhunter
Explorer
Explorer
MrRchitty wrote:
.... I will tell you, I am very, very pleased. It's like I had the Honda.


You had to say it......
Just like a Honda, except you have tinkered with it to make it run better.....
And a Honda will run a 55 amp converter, full load in boost mode, the CPE will not.
You may like you're generator, but it's no Honda.

Hybridhunter
Explorer
Explorer
Any mention of PF or VA?

blatant
Explorer
Explorer
So how do you get a red vs a yellow? Just luck until the yellow's are sold through? I think most of the costco's/ sams around me are all yellow?

Also, how do i tweak my preferences here to see pics? Thanks again.


Anything else I should know or take into account regarding this unit? 196pgs is was alot!