TOOLS I Have A Question

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Germany is more expensive than the United States. Wages, taxes, basic standard of living. Right?

Then please tell me why WILLI HAHN can manufacture screwdrivers and pliers far superior in quality to Snap On or Mac tools that cost WAY MORE then tools that are shipped thousands of miles across the Atlantic Ocean and marketed here?

There is no USA competition for these tools -- Knipex is considerably more expensive than WiHa. I have no idea where Knipex is made.

There is no other word I can substitute for the following one: The USA is prostituting our sense of integrity of quality for the almighty dollar.

There are a few holdouts. Caterpillar, 3M, General Electric (for medical) and Westinghouse (For large generators and transformers).

Siemens is kicking our *** world wide for electrical assembles and again this is a German enterprise. B*A*R*T*? A Siemens project. The San Diego Red Trolley? Again Siemens.

Too much of what I read on this forum are problems the result of which are due to shoddy design and manufacturing. Too many products have USA brand names and garbage Chinese design.

Why am I fuming? I lost a forty dollar frying pan this morning. An elite brand. The handle came off the hard way with absolutely no way to repair it. Elite USA brand name -- manufactured in China. We canno make a @#$%^&! forty dollar frying pan. Gimmee a break.

[rightlaneonly]

2oldman wrote:

joshuajim wrote:
The problem is AMERICAN companies that want the cheapest produced products that result in the greatest profit.

The problem is American consumers who want the cheapest possible products.

Amen to that. We want quantity not quality:R

[fj12ryder]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Yes and I can buy electro-switch brand for 75 dollars a copy and Premier Supertanium bolts for three dollars each. Overkill quality for sure. Shoot they even sell gold plated contact made-in-USA WATTGATE receptacles for 175 dollars each.

Another good area to start would be clothes and shoes where a Chinese size 13 reverts back to a USA size 11-1/2.

Pants have pockets too small, shirts are proportioned for a circus freak. We grow millions of tons of cotton -- where does it go?

99% of Chinese goods have garbage can quality.

This is all due to companies wanting to maximize profit. Are you -really- foolish enough to believe it's being done for -your- benefit?

Just a question: Why are you in Mexico? Companies move their plants to someplace because it's cheaper, but if you do it, that's different. Maybe the companies just need someone to set an example for them, so if you move back then maybe they'll follow suit.

[agesilaus]

This is all due to companies wanting to maximize profit. Are you -really- foolish enough to believe it's being done for -your- benefit?
................................................................

Done to maximize profits?? Of course it's done to maximize profits. Maybe not in Mexico but in the US companies have a legal duty to maximize profits for their stock owners and can and will be sued by angry stock holders and/or by the government if they do not.

However there are different ways to do that. You can pursue the minimization all production costs and produce the cheapest junk you can get someone to buy, route. Providing zero customer support by offshoring it to Bangladesh. Lots of computer companies tried that route and would keep it up until sales crashed thru the floor and there was a major management turnover. After which the new management would increase product quality and move customer support back to the US until the new management moved on to other companies; when it would start all over.

Or at the other end you can maximize real quality production and build up a large and loyal customer base. Then you can sell all you can make off your production line. Arctic Fox is an example of that. They have continued this for years by keeping small and depending on word-of-mouth advertising.

All this is a delicate dance on a knife edge. There are hundreds of books written about this subject none of them definitive. There are many case studies, look at the case of the fall of Word Perfect for an example. This is what makes Capitalism the only successful economic scheme that is known to man.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Yes and I can buy electro-switch brand for 75 dollars a copy and Premier Supertanium bolts for three dollars each. Overkill quality for sure. Shoot they even sell gold plated contact made-in-USA WATTGATE receptacles for 175 dollars each.

Another good area to start would be clothes and shoes where a Chinese size 13 reverts back to a USA size 11-1/2.

Pants have pockets too small, shirts are proportioned for a circus freak. We grow millions of tons of cotton -- where does it go?

99% of Chinese goods have garbage can quality.

This is all due to companies wanting to maximize profit. Are you -really- foolish enough to believe it's being done for -your- benefit?

[agesilaus]

Here's the thing for me. I look at my RV parked in the driveway and it might as well have a label on it, "made in china/mexico/canada but assembled in the USA".
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Not to start another mine is better than your war. But I just bought the RV in my sigline and it bucks the trend of cheaply built. I wonder every time I walk into the door and just feel how it feels when it slowly swings open on massive hinges. Some US manufacturers still produce high quality work, many of them actually.

[Ralph_Cramden]

Snap on is nothing more than a racket. In the late 90s I had a cracked 10mm Snap On socket. I attended a race at a local short track sponsored by them, where all the local snap on distibutors attended, and they had a parade of the trucks between heats. Not one of their sheisters would exchange that lifetime gauranteed socket at that event. Finally I found some Snap on big wig and he went into some line of BS how the warranty was only redeemable during a regular visit to where the item was purchased. The drivers I asked said they could not give up the 10mm socket/s they had on the truck. I had to wait until they stopped by the place of purchase, in this case my brother in laws garage where I was buying their garbage, inform his guy, then he would bring one the next visit. I bet if I would have whipped out $20 to buy a $2 socket they would have sold one on the spot.

That was the end of buying any of Snap Ons overpriced junk.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

A thousand mile hike starts with a single step. Let's pick one and go from there.

No imported electrical worth 99 dollars or more unless assembly is made modular and modules USA inventory is maintained by the manufacturer.

Constitutional amendment. No inventory warehouse taxes for repair parts.

In your tools list please do not forget Plumb.

Outlaw speculation of fuel and food

[larry_cad]

docsouce wrote:
Here's the thing for me. I look at my RV parked in the driveway and it might as well have a label on it, "made in china/mexico/canada but assembled in the USA". I would like to know just how many parts/components are actually made completely in the USA. Now,this I hope is a wrong assumption: even if the parts were made in the USA would they be any better? The generations that made quality parts from our own resources (steel,machine tools,experience) has retired or passed away.
That void has never been filled because the need disappeared. I see we are trying to get this manufacturing base restarted, but who is going to do the hands on dirty work? If you could get the phone out of these young people's hand and gave them a micrometer and asked them to measure a piece of steel, all you would get is a blank stare..
I don't have any answers for these questions, but it has been bothering me for a while.. Meanwhile I'll keep using my hand me down 70 year old craftsman,snap on,husky, South Bend lathe and Bridgeport milling machine.

Outstanding post!

[docsouce]

Here's the thing for me. I look at my RV parked in the driveway and it might as well have a label on it, "made in china/mexico/canada but assembled in the USA". I would like to know just how many parts/components are actually made completely in the USA. Now,this I hope is a wrong assumption: even if the parts were made in the USA would they be any better? The generations that made quality parts from our own resources (steel,machine tools,experience) has retired or passed away.
That void has never been filled because the need disappeared. I see we are trying to get this manufacturing base restarted, but who is going to do the hands on dirty work? If you could get the phone out of these young people's hand and gave them a micrometer and asked them to measure a piece of steel, all you would get is a blank stare..
I don't have any answers for these questions, but it has been bothering me for a while.. Meanwhile I'll keep using my hand me down 70 year old craftsman,snap on,husky, South Bend lathe and Bridgeport milling machine.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Youre stupid for paying 40 $$ for a frying pan in the first place.

And you may not be a monument to wisdom when you start assuming and not comprehending what you read.

A replacement pan costs forty dollars. The stoneware set incrementally costs less than half that. By the way Youre should be spelled you're. And "foolish" comes across as a lot less stupid a remark for a number of reasons.

[agesilaus]

agesilaus wrote:
1. American companies are trying to compete with Chinese companies who basically have slave labor. (I've been to China and speak from personal experience)

2. There are no unions in China.

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Another reason President Trump is holding a gun to their head....along with plenty of others. I'm surprised the moderator hasn't pulled the plug on this.

[agesilaus]

1. American companies are trying to compete with Chinese companies who basically have slave labor. (I've been to China and speak from personal experience)

2. There are no unions in China.

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Another reason President Trump is holding a gun to their head....along with plenty of others. I'm surprise the moderator hasn't pulled the plug on this.

[free_radical]

larry cad wrote:
1. American companies are trying to compete with Chinese companies who basically have slave labor. (I've been to China and speak from personal experience)

2. There are no unions in China.

3. American companies are having difficulty finding good workers. Actually, they are having trouble finding BAD workers. My job takes me into numerous factories and all of them cannot find enough good workers. Recently one customer wanted to restart a mothballed facility because the economy is going good. They interviewed 600 applicants to fill 150 positions and failed because of mandatory drug testing.

Ive had the same problem here when working in Alberta..
Every Canadian worker was a dopehead or a boozer unable to work a full week without caling in sick couple days later.
on the other hand,
European and other imigrants are way more reliable,responsible workers..

Asians are smart to crack down hard on drug pushers,knowing what it does to people,in Philipines they execute them,in Japan they deport and ban anyone who done drugs,even the famous rock n rollers and stars

China doesnt fool around either

https://youtu.be/Yoqj-gmDgkM

[free_radical]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:


Why am I fuming? I lost a forty dollar frying pan this morning. An elite brand. The handle came off the hard way with absolutely no way to repair it. Elite USA brand name -- manufactured in China. We canno make a @#$%^&! forty dollar frying pan. Gimmee a break.

Youre stupid for paying 40 $$ for a frying pan in the first place.
It cost maybe couple bucks to make..
I paid 20$ for one,made sure to test scratch the non stick coating with a key to see its tough enough..
There were some cheaper ones too and some 10x more expensive..
I leave it to rich people to buy the pricey ones.. 🙂

[T18skyguy]

I'm 66 years old and have been wrenching all my life, some of it professionally. I have Snap-On, Mac, Matco, Bonney, Craftsman, Wiha, and Harbor Freight. Knipex is German, and so is Wiha, but Wiha has an American division. In the 60's, Craftsman wrenches we're beautiful. Thin walled, tempered, as good as any Snap-On. Then they got cheaper and cheaper and came out with that thick walled **** they call a wrench( Allied ) just awful. They have improved somewhat with their latest stuff. The only line of tools that can match Snap-On in high polish(if you like to clean your tools), and thin wall for clearance, is Bonney. Bonney use to have the contract with the Air Force in the USA. I don't know if their still in business, probably not. Where superior tools shine is in tight clearance, and tight access situations. If you work as a pro, you will come across the need for the box end of the wrench to be thin and strong. Most people don't need professional tools, but when you need one, and you don't have it, a lot of time is wasted and time is money. There was a thread on here the other day about how to hold that oblong tip on a shock absorber on a class C. Waste hours fighting it, but Snap-On makes a nice little 3/8 socket made just for that oblong tip. Hours saved. For most stuff Harbor Freight will work, but for some stuff, only Snap-On has the tool. A mix of all of it has served me well over the years.