Why go solar?

[Chowan]

Why go solar if generator/propane is still a must? After looking seriously at fitting rv (when we get it) with solar I am beginning to realize that solar cant keep up with what I want it to do. I want to have a res. refer, tv and sat, computers and cell phone. I want to run AC and heat and cook with electric. Doing all this, I dont see how solar capable to do all of this. maybe with 2000w and many batteries. Am I wrong. I know I can go with propane for refer and cooking and heating and run a gen for ac/tv. SO, If I have to use gen/propane why spend $5k-10k for solar? Is noise the only reason? Cool a reason? Thanks for sharing your point of view.

[DanNJanice]

SoundGuy wrote:

Chowan wrote:
I want to have a res. refer, tv and sat, computers and cell phone. I want to run AC and heat and cook with electric.

Forget the genset, what you really want are electric sites! :W

Bingo!
Or a house in the suburbs!

[RoyB]

I am getting by pretty good with my 255AH Battery bank with all the things we want to have ON doing our off-grid camping. This included just about everything except AC or high wattage microwave etc...

I only have the Generator and it seems just about everywhere I camp here on the East side of the US all has generator run time restrictions. The only time I can run my generator is a few hours in the morning and early evening. Never allowed anywhere around here after 8PM at night until around 8AM the next morning...

For me it takes a good three hours each day to use my generator to re-charge my 255AH battery bank from its depleted 50% charge state to the 90% charge where I can use the batteries again for the next day/night run off the batteries.

Having some solar would reduce the generator run time during the day by two hours. Planning on installing a couple of 100Watt panels and maybe a 250 WATT panel on my small POPUP trailer roof line. I want to have at least 20AMPS DC current being developed during the high sun part of the day and this will bring back my batteries just fine after I do at least one hour of high DC current charging from the converter being run by my generator first. My battery bank starts demanding around 52-53AMP DC current when the 50% depleted batteries first get hit with 14.4VDC boost charging. After the first hour the DC current demand is around 6-8AMP DC current per battery which the solar panels in high sun can handle for several hours of daylight use. Also I can only do some 12-14 50% to 90% charge state without doing harm to the battery bank so after doing these cycle I have to do a 100% charge state which takes over 12 hours for me to complete.

Everything we do hinges on how well we take care of our battery bank...

I could not operate without the Generator with my style of camping. Adding a few solar panels just supplements the generator in my situation.

Camping off-road in the high country or back in woods creekside somewhere does not require Air Conditioner or High wattage 120VAC items for us. We get by just fine with good LED lights and watching some HDTV after dark. Keeping the computers and other battery items charged up is very doable for us with our 255AH battery bank...

It all depends what kind of camping you want to do I guess...

Just my take on Generator and Solar power style of camping off-grid... I'm sure others do it somewhat differently but this has been working for me since early 2009...

Roy Ken

[JFNM]

Howdy Chowan! Do you currently own and use an RV? If so, take a bit of time and measure your actual power consumption. Then you can make decisions with some facts in hand.

I live and work full-time in my RV using solar power - almost exclusively. I sure did not spend the kind of money mentioned. Here is an actual accounting of what I have and what it cost. Here is a post documenting how quickly it paid for itself. Finally, here is my energy audit for my lifestyle.

There is no doubt that solar doesn't work for everyone. I mostly avoid the heat/cold (with elevation and longitude), not everyone can do that. IMO, "needing" air conditioning is a big reason that solar just doesn't work for people (mostly the battery, less so the solar).

There are always a lot of misconceptions/old wives tales mentioned (even in this thread) when the solar topic comes up. It actually works might well for an RV assuming you don't need many Kw/day.

BTW; if I had the kind of money mentioned ($10K), I would have a killer lithium battery bank that would allow me to run my air conditioning! RV'ers are doing it right now - no longer cutting edge.

[bighatnohorse]

Chowan wrote:
Why go solar if generator/propane is still a must?. . .
.
. . .If I have to use gen/propane why spend $5k-10k for solar? Is noise the only reason? Cool a reason? Thanks for sharing your point of view.

1) Because there are times when the only need for a generator is to charge batteries.

2) You would not want to spend $5k or more for solar.
(Exception: you're a hardcore boondocker that never wants to see civilization)

A small 200 or 400 watt solar system will charge batteries quite nicely on sunny days. Cost should be well under $1K and you would enjoy quiet free energy - forever.

Or, always stay at places with hookups.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Let's not go off the deep end either way 🙂

Paving the roof with panels provides lots of charging power. But without planning such a move may be similar to refueling a Volkswagen with a four-inch diameter fuel hose.

My PRINCIPAL kWh usage is from 1700 hours to 2100 hours and from 0600 to 0900 hours. "Where's the sun?" You need lots and lots and lots and lots of batteries to utilize a huge solar array.

Buy a generator, run it for 5,000 hours, then start adding costs. Generator purchase price, generator maintenance cost. Fuel. MONEY SPENT TO GO GET MORE FUEL. Divide the sum total into 5,000 hours. Find a nice chair in soothing surroundings then figure out what each kilowatt hour is going to cost? Is it worth it to you?

When I was running a diesel 24/7 on the beach at Xcalak Quintana Roo, I was driving 135 miles to purchase FIFTEEN CENT PER GALLON DIESEL in TWO HUNDRED GALLON drum lots. Careful number crunching revealed the thirteen dollar a day RV Park in Chetumal would be cheaper. Being the temperature was 110F, choices were limited. I would have needed a solar array the size of an Olympic swimming pool and 40' semi trailer full of batteries to feed three roof air units.

IMHO the OP is seeing reality and doing this the right way. He is asking the right questions. Some folks can get a surprise and modify their lifestyle to compromise up to a point. Several decades ago I spent a month at a Mexican hot springs living with two diesel pickup engine starting batteries. It meant driving 13 miles to town, allowing the batteries to recharge, buying ice and food to last 3-4 days in an ice chest. I read by the dim light of 5mm white LEDs. Minimalist can be employed. But beware the minimalist who gloats and twists arms to convince "That's All You Really Need". You need what you need.

[Sam_Spade]

coolmom42 wrote:
There's no reason to go solar to do what you want to do, because it is not cost effective. I'm not even sure you could put enough panels on the roof to do it. You need a good quiet generator, like a Honda or Yamaha, or you need plug-in sites.

However, if you have situations with lower demand, like no AC needed, you could greatly reduce your generator usage or plug-in dependency with a solar system and good battery bank.

THIS.

And as you hinted at in your original post, I think it is mostly the current fad for many. Keeping up with the Jones's so to speak.

I fall in the middle somewhere with moderate electrical needs but have decided that paying a couple of extra bucks a night for shore power is MUCH more worthwhile than screwing about with a marginal solar add-on.

[lane_hog]

We have both solar and a generator, but don't have as high of an energy need as what you're describing. Our panel and MPPT charger was only around $700 when I bought it 12 years ago, and it's paid for itself a long time ago as far as I'm concerned. We only use the two battery positions that the coach came with. There's just not room for more, and we really don't need more based on our history.

Most of our essential daily draws can be met with the single solar panel (e.g. lights, charging a phone, running the TV/DVD player occasionally). We cook with gas, and the fridge is far more efficient on propane than electric. For everything else, we run the generator.

Why buy solar if you already have a generator? Some NPS and NFS campgrounds don't allow you to run a generator outside very restrictive hours. It also keeps the batteries topped off when our unit is in storage, and is a fallback for if the generator isn't running or we're out of fuel.

[RJsfishin]

You can depend on a generator.
You can't depend on solar.
If you want A/C, forget solar.

[Chum_lee]

You can still go solar! You'll just need an off grid residential sized solar system. Check this out on Google Earth. Search for Joe Skeen Campground in El Malpais near Grants, New Mexico. For the campground host (only) the solar system consisted of 48, yes 48 - 240 watt photovoltaic panels, (+-32" x 62" each) 24 - 6 volt deep cycle batteries and 2 - 10,000 watt inverters. (one as a backup)

The campground host (in an older +-30' fiver) told me he regularly, reliably ran the rooftop AC in summer, and electrical resistance heating in winter, plus all the creature comforts he wanted(refrigerator, elec. water heater, consumer electronics, shop tools, microwave, coffee maker, etc.), no problem.

Now, . . . the cost for the system, . . . only the BLM knows for sure. My estimate is between $50,000 to $60,000, less if the government can give itself energy rebates. AND, the system stays put when the campground host leaves.


Chum lee

[coolmom42]

There's no reason to go solar to do what you want to do, because it is not cost effective. I'm not even sure you could put enough panels on the roof to do it. You need a good quiet generator, like a Honda or Yamaha, or you need plug-in sites.

However, if you have situations with lower demand, like no AC needed, you could greatly reduce your generator usage or plug-in dependency with a solar system and good battery bank.

[time2roll]

Solar just reduces generator run time to charge the battery. For some (like me) it eliminates the need for a generator in general conditions. If I need air conditioning or the furnace 24/7 I am looking for hookups. For the use described above you need 50 amp hookup.

[ReneeG]

We have solar and can run satellite, computer, and charge cell phones at the same time. Generally when we are in this situation to use solar only, then we have the fridge set to propane as it draws too much off the batteries. Yet, if there are days of little or no sun, or rain, we arrange to have hookups and if it's cold enough, we benefit from the hookups by being able to run the electric fireplace rather than use propane.

[Chowan]

I know I could do other things, full hookups sounds like the way to go.

[GordonThree]

I'm with ya Chowan.

Solar has it's place, and I think it might pay off for folks that mainly travel the southwest, where it's more often than not, sunny. Here in Michigan, it's rarely sunny ALL DAY LONG, and if the sun is out, it's low in the sky, so rooftop solar would need a good tilt, and then lay flat again in a few days when it comes to move to a new campsite. Maybe if I treated my RV more like a trailer park model, and left it somewhere for weeks/months on end, my thought would be different?

I use solar while I rv; in the form of ancient phytoplankton that's been crushed for millions of years and transformed into crude oil, refined into gasoline and used for internal combustion on my generators.

[korbe]

Very good. You are learning the RV principles prior to investment. For us, when we want to watch tv, and use the air conditioner, we look for places to stay where we can plug into shore power.