How many EVs is GM actually selling?

[Groover]

GM's production and "sales" of EVs, including pickup trucks, went up by a large percentage in the 3rd quarter. But they count vehicles as sold when the dealer takes them. The Bolt seems to be selling to consumers well but the Hummer, maybe not. Is it that consumers don't want them or is it the ridiculous markups the dealers are putting on the Hummer?

GM 3rd qtr EV sales

From autoevolution:
"Despite GM reporting 1,167 GMC Hummer EVs sold in the third quarter, many still lie on dealer lots, waiting for a buyer. A quick search on CarEdge reveals that 976 brand-new GMC Hummer EVs are available at dealerships. If you filter out the vehicles still in transit, 651 units are still waiting for a buyer. If you want to find out why, just look at the prices. Many are listed at more than $150,000, sometimes even $200,000. This means the dealer markups on these units are outrageous, in some cases as high as $100,000.

Of course, not all of them were reported as sold in the third quarter. CarEdge also mentions how long they've been on the market, so we used this filter. Remarkably, 849 of them have been on the market for between 7 and 97 days, which means they were likely delivered from July through September. This sounds like almost the entire third-quarter production is still waiting for a buyer."

[Grit_dog]

Lantley wrote:
I think believing EV's are not viable it because of the lack of charging stations is silly.
At some point there were cars and no gas stations.
The wright bros. didn't give up on the airplane because there were no airports.
The infrastructure will come in time. To think there should be a charging station on every corner at this juncture is foolish.

Except there are millions of cars and gas stations right now. EV is 1000% better than walking or riding your horse 100miles. But now that we’ve had cars that do that for 100 years, your comparison is without merit.

[RetiredRealtorR]

Lantley wrote:
I think believing EV's are not viable it because of the lack of charging stations is silly.
At some point there were cars and no gas stations.
The wright bros. didn't give up on the airplane because there were no airports.
The infrastructure will come in time. To think there should be a charging station on every corner at this juncture is foolish.

"The infrastructure will come in time" . . . Exactly. And until you can tell us precisely when that will happen, the go-to solution, as I see it, is a hybrid. Best of both worlds without the anxiety.

[JaxDad]

Reisender wrote:
Generally speaking, the further you go north the higher the adaption rate of EV’s is. Norway has the highest EV adoption rate in the world, now north of 90 percent. Iceland, holland, Sweden, Switzerland, Germany all have high EV adoption rates.

I have family in Finland, the main reason, by a wide margin, for EV ownership is purely financial. People that formerly couldn’t really afford a car, now can, and thank the taxman for that.

Gasoline is ~US$7.50 / gallon, and is garbage fuel from Russia that requires a major detune of most vehicles. Folks with money and performance cars buy gasoline imported from Germany with a 50% premium tacked on. Heavy import duties, huge annual taxes and licensing fees all disappeared with the EV’s

In my family’s case the advantage is so great they have 3 EV’s now for less money than one gasser used to cost.

[Dadoffourgirls]

Reisender wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
So how do ya run and charge those EVs when it’s 0 or -30 outside?
It’s great and all, but the only apartment places that seems to have convenience outlets for each car are also places where EVs don’t fare so well yet.
Even assuming charging immediately after returning home, with a warmed up battery, how much of that 15-20A convenience outlet is actually providing additional charge and how much is charging what the battery is using to maintain temperature?

Again, at this point, the technology is good for some (who also aren’t afraid to spend more money on cars) and not even close to a reality for many.
Just keeping the flip side of the story real, here.

...Many people start by buying a single EV. Then winter comes and everybody in the house is fighting over who gets to drive the EV. The next year the gas vehicle gets replaced by another EV and it’s an EV household. Literally happened to us. EV’s are super convenient in winter, especially if you have to park outside. Always getting in a warm car. Never having to go to a cold gas pump and freezing your hands. (Charging at home). I could never go back to a gasser in winter and everybody we know driving an EV feels the same. ...

More spin on fueling. Based on your statement, anyone with an EV would only charge in a heated garage, so their hands do not get cold while plugging in. In 3.5 years, I have charged on pay chargers twice. One time was because it was 20 degrees F and I was using heat and did not have enough range. My hands got cold plugging the car in to charge.

At this time, EV adoption is not for everyone, and everywhere. That might be why I have an EV, gas, and diesel in my drive.

[Reisender]

Grit dog wrote:
So how do ya run and charge those EVs when it’s 0 or -30 outside?
It’s great and all, but the only apartment places that seems to have convenience outlets for each car are also places where EVs don’t fare so well yet.
Even assuming charging immediately after returning home, with a warmed up battery, how much of that 15-20A convenience outlet is actually providing additional charge and how much is charging what the battery is using to maintain temperature?

Again, at this point, the technology is good for some (who also aren’t afraid to spend more money on cars) and not even close to a reality for many.
Just keeping the flip side of the story real, here.

Yah for sure. Ideally a 3 KW or better charge source is better in winter although we did it for a couple years with just a 15 amp plug. Literally used our soffit plug for Christmas lights. But keep in mind that this is all achievable and people make it happen. Generally speaking, the further you go north the higher the adaption rate of EV’s is. Norway has the highest EV adoption rate in the world, now north of 90 percent. Iceland, holland, Sweden, Switzerland, Germany all have high EV adoption rates. Many people start by buying a single EV. Then winter comes and everybody in the house is fighting over who gets to drive the EV. The next year the gas vehicle gets replaced by another EV and it’s an EV household. Literally happened to us. EV’s are super convenient in winter, especially if you have to park outside. Always getting in a warm car. Never having to go to a cold gas pump and freezing your hands. (Charging at home). I could never go back to a gasser in winter and everybody we know driving an EV feels the same.

Here’s our old leaf plugged into our soffit plug. This is back in 2015 or 2016.



And yah we get winter here although our lows are typically not below minus 25. Our Tesla model 3.



Jmho.

[Lantley]

I think believing EV's are not viable it because of the lack of charging stations is silly.
At some point there were cars and no gas stations.
The wright bros. didn't give up on the airplane because there were no airports.
The infrastructure will come in time. To think there should be a charging station on every corner at this juncture is foolish.

[Grit_dog]

So how do ya run and charge those EVs when it’s 0 or -30 outside?
It’s great and all, but the only apartment places that seems to have convenience outlets for each car are also places where EVs don’t fare so well yet.
Even assuming charging immediately after returning home, with a warmed up battery, how much of that 15-20A convenience outlet is actually providing additional charge and how much is charging what the battery is using to maintain temperature?

Again, at this point, the technology is good for some (who also aren’t afraid to spend more money on cars) and not even close to a reality for many.
Just keeping the flip side of the story real, here.

[APT]

I have two EVs and two ICE in my fleet and live in a metropolitan city. I never plan to use public charger within 100 miles of home where I plug in while I sleep. For any day trips under 200 miles, the EV is fine. For those living in smaller communities in their own home, an EV with level 2 EVSE is more than fine again for those 50-200 mile drives where one returns home at night. How many apartment complexes are there in towns of 9k? EV probably does not make sense for those 20 people. 🙂

Would I recommend an EV as only vehicle? Not in 2023 to anyone. However, there are a lot of benefits of EVs plus generally very cheap to own/operate competed to ICE.

[Reisender]

Grit dog wrote:
Boils down to the same thing. There’s an @ss for every seat and for many an EV of some sort is that seat.
Depends what you spend on cars too. Me, currently there is a different vehicle for each day of the week and 2 drivers. All of which could be daily’s technically.
And an EV would fit either of our commuting habits. But I have a company truck so free= better than everything else.
That said, $38k doesn’t seem bad, until I compare it to the last “new” (to me) vehicles I bought, a host of commuter beater suvs in the $5k range which get driven and sold for the same or more $ than purchased. Or the 2016 Ram. Gave $37k with 60k miles a few years ago. Can’t see spending $38k on a base model chit box commuter car….
Then there’s much of the population who are never “stepping up” to the Tesla from the bolt or whatever. They won’t even be in the EV game until those are dime a dozen used clunkers. And then they better hope they live in Saskatchetoon where everyone gets a free block heater outlet at their apt parking spot.

It’s a little assuming to think everyone can or does buy new or expensive vehicles.

I hear ya. @ss for every seat. :). I like that.

The base 38,000 tesla is a great commuter but for those who make occasional road trips it’s actually…ok. Mostly because of the supercharger network availability and speed.

Heads up. We used to own apartment buildings in Alberta. The block heater receptacle in the parking lot goes back to a breaker in the renters apartment so the renter normally pays the bill. Where we were in central Alberta at minus 35 with a gas or diesel vehicle you were plugged in, or starting in the morning was iffy. The 15 amp 120 volt receptacle would be adequate for modest commutes if charging from it. Maybe max 100 kilometre commutes. Maybe 70 in winter depending on the car. Not idea but I know a ton of people are doing it. It gets talked about on the EV groups often.

Cheers.

[Grit_dog]

Boils down to the same thing. There’s an @ss for every seat and for many an EV of some sort is that seat.
Depends what you spend on cars too. Me, currently there is a different vehicle for each day of the week and 2 drivers. All of which could be daily’s technically.
And an EV would fit either of our commuting habits. But I have a company truck so free= better than everything else.
That said, $38k doesn’t seem bad, until I compare it to the last “new” (to me) vehicles I bought, a host of commuter beater suvs in the $5k range which get driven and sold for the same or more $ than purchased. Or the 2016 Ram. Gave $37k with 60k miles a few years ago. Can’t see spending $38k on a base model chit box commuter car….
Then there’s much of the population who are never “stepping up” to the Tesla from the bolt or whatever. They won’t even be in the EV game until those are dime a dozen used clunkers. And then they better hope they live in Saskatchetoon where everyone gets a free block heater outlet at their apt parking spot.

It’s a little assuming to think everyone can or does buy new or expensive vehicles.

[Dadoffourgirls]

BB_TX wrote:

Groover wrote:
GM's production and "sales" of EVs, including pickup trucks, went up by a large percentage in the 3rd quarter. But they count vehicles as sold when the dealer takes them. ..........

True of all vehicles. All those thousands of EV, hybrid, and ICE vehicles setting on dealer lots count as sold.

WRONG

[Dadoffourgirls]

Groover wrote:
GM's production and "sales" of EVs, including pickup trucks, went up by a large percentage in the 3rd quarter. But they count vehicles as sold when the dealer takes them.

You are completely WRONG. The vehicle deliveries reported by all the OEMs represent the delivery of a vehicle to the ultimate customer.

Financially, the OEMs take financial revenue when ownership transfers to the dealer. This is not what the auto companies report.

[Reisender]

RetiredRealtorRick wrote:

Reisender wrote:

RetiredRealtorRick wrote:
Yes, it is a shame that the Bolt is being discontinued, but IMO it sends a huge message. If Americans won't embrace what is probably the lowest priced, very affordable EV, it looks like the mainstream buyer is not ready for EV's. Bring on the economical ICE's and hybrids. I think they're here to stay for quite a while.

The bolt is being discontinued because they lose too much money on them. The price has to be as low as it is to compete with Teslas 38000 dollar model 3 which is a superior car in every way. Essentially they just got priced out of the market.

The base price of a Bolt is $26,500 -- a far cry from Tesla's $38,000 buy-in.

Exactly my point. They have to be that cheap to sell against the tesla. And even then the majority spend the extra money and step up to the tesla. Doing a cross country the country road trip in any season is easy with a tesla. A bolt…not so much. R

The bolt is a nice little commuter and works well for people who need it for that. But short of a large makeover it’s easier to just produce a whole new model with decent charging and tech. And that will happen with the Equinox. As well they need to produce its replacement in house in North America instead of just buying and importing all the significant bits from Korea and assembling them in North America.

I don’t think the bolt name will disappear. It’ll be back…someday.

All the above JMHO. Not an expert.

[Groover]

midnightsadie wrote:
me either ,they just don,t fit a country life stye they,ll work just fine for some people.not for others.and I agree with that guy that said drill baby drill. have a nice day.

I live out in the country and have 3 vehicles for my wife and I to use for daily driving. I am excluding the motorhome and the pickup that spends most of its time hooked up to my equipment trailer. One of the three vehicles is a Model Y and we really enjoy it. My wife likes driving it to work and never having to stop for gas. She uses the home charger that I installed and starts most every day with a full charge.

My equipment trailer is used mostly within 60 miles of home. When an affordable electric vehicle that would comfortably make the round trip with the trailer becomes available I will consider replacing the PU that I am using now. I realize that this is a camping column and campers need a much longer range but I suspect that a lot of contractors are in my situation. I do use my Model Y to pull my boat but a 90 mile round trip is about the most that I can do with it. Otherwise, it actually pulls better than my pickup.

Range has rarely been an issue and many charge stations have been added since I bought the Model Y so that is quickly becoming a non-issue around here.

My other two vehicles are an old Ford Ranger and an old minivan. Both fill unique niches in my needs and are handy to have around but neither gets used very much. We always drive the Tesla if it meets the needs of the trip.

[Groover]

RetiredRealtorRick wrote:

Reisender wrote:

RetiredRealtorRick wrote:
Yes, it is a shame that the Bolt is being discontinued, but IMO it sends a huge message. If Americans won't embrace what is probably the lowest priced, very affordable EV, it looks like the mainstream buyer is not ready for EV's. Bring on the economical ICE's and hybrids. I think they're here to stay for quite a while.

The bolt is being discontinued because they lose too much money on them. The price has to be as low as it is to compete with Teslas 38000 dollar model 3 which is a superior car in every way. Essentially they just got priced out of the market.

The base price of a Bolt is $26,500 -- a far cry from Tesla's $38,000 buy-in.

I think that the main problem with the Bolt is its issue with fires. They may be fixed now but it is hard to shake the stigma. A lot like the history of the Fiero. The CCS charging is also a liability.