1/2 KW of solar, 1,450AH of batteries - Ultimate dry camping

[Boatycall]

Most of my camping is dry camping. My TC has 75 gallons of water, so I got plenty of that, and while I do have a Honda EU gen, I prefer no generator noise. I usually have my trailer in tow since I'm taking toys pretty much on any trip, so I did a little project to turn my trailer into a mobile power station.

Oregon Dunes last week---


I already have 6 145Ah sealed AGM commercial batteries in the TC, and I'm NOT nice when it comes to power conservation. Coffee pot running all morning, microwave, Sat TV... and as if that's not enough, the trailer has a separate 110v beverage fridge and separate stand-alone ice maker that draws ~400 watts.

I recently got a great deal on solar, and put four 135 watt panels and a hi-end MPPT controller into my trailer. I added 4 more 145AH batteries in the trailer, and it's own 2KW inverter. So the fridge and the icemaker in the trailer are now stand-alone, running off the trailer batteries and inverter. To connect the camper to the trailer's solar, I used 100a Golf-Cart type connectors through 4ga battery cable.

The panels are REALLY cool - frameless peel-n-stick, and when they say stick, omg, the adhesive they use is flat out evil. I am not affiliated with them in any way, but if you're interested, here's the link to where I got them--
ML Solar.com

First thing I did was to lay them out to get a fit and placement....


Then start the peel-n-stick




And finally got all 4 down...


So that very first pic of my rig at Sand Lakes is WITH the solar, and as you can (or can't) see, the solar is literally invisible - no frame.

It was perfectly sunny out, and I was putting out so much charge, I had completely full batteries, at it's peak hitting 34amps continuous charge.


Here's a pic of the controller in the back of the trailer


I had so much charge I ran a set of jumper cables from my trailer batteries over to my buddies travel trailer batteries and kept him completely charged over the 5 days we were there. Never once in 5 days did we have to run a genny. Total cost for 4 panels, wire, and controller was almost to the penny $1,000--same price as my Honda 2000.

The moral of the story - if you regularly haul a toybox, consider adding solar to it, there's a lot of unused real estate on that roof.

[Boatycall]

Worth noting - I have to start ALL OVER... I bought a brand new shiny top-of-the-line Wells Cargo this weekend, I already ordered the exact same setup. But this time I'm also going to use a high-end Xantrex pure sinewave inverter instead of a modified.

[Bedlam]

I will also be running the same panels on my trailer. I am still short on the required connectors and terminators before I can start this project and I am even shorter on available time, so we will see when this project actually gets into the installation phase.

I have to agree that I would not recommend these on living space roof due to the solar heating in most locations. But with me living in an area that is overcast more often than sunny, it may actually be a benefit. There are plenty of large RV's with dark roofs in the sun belt that overcome the heat absorption through larger capacity air conditioning, but they are tethered.

[bka0721]

Hi Boatycall. I am sure I am like others, looking forward to "one of our own" giving progress reports. It is always interesting in what wavelength certain solar panels are responsive to. My own show some reactiveness due to certain light sources, as well.

It is, and not, my intention to disapprove of new products, older products or products used differently, but to share information that I learn, first hand. Thus the reasons I shared what others have shared with me, personally. Such as Boatycall is doing now. While there are many things Pros/Cons available, I related only the issues that were brought to me and one I felt unfounded, with my explanation. Sure we can go to the Search Engines and look for information to support our perspective, but more weight is given by me by use of people I actually know. That is what I enjoy about this forum, sharing of ideas and experiences, not as much as a regurgitation of information from the internet, fact or fiction.

Since there seems to be a wanting to give the Pros, let me share the biggest issue I have with my Glass Panels, is their susceptibility to Wind Load (interesting comment made in Gone with the Wynn's article). I like the fact that these flat panels have no wind load, except maybe a shear factor for edges. I spend a LOT of time in wind prone areas, so this is a particular issue for me. Also, the fact that they are so much more useable in so many ways, Rolled up into my gear for my motorcycle, is one.

Knowing what I know now, about flat panels, I would treat maintenance of these panels as I do the Finish of one of my collectible cars. I would always make sure I kept them cleaner than I do my Glass Panels and use lots of water/fluids to clean them to help minimize abrasion. Just as I would with a black car and it’s finish.

Also, what is interesting is that we have two test beds (Boatycall/Uncle) to see results from, or any others that want to chime in, too. As we don't benefit from those that just want to post or hear positive things and challenge those comments from those that differ from their views. It then becomes a question of what benefit we receive from these posts of new ways of doing things.

b

[pianotuna]

Which controller is that?

Boatycall wrote:
One thing I will say about these, coupled with the controller I chose-- Low light performance-- IMHO....OMG, I swear, these things put out a charge with a flashlight. This morning I went out, 8am here in Seattle, completely overcast, and I was already getting 3amps of charge.

[Boatycall]

bka0721 wrote:

1. Impossible to remove if need of replacing.
2. Heat from panels and heat from surface (metal) combines to heat the panels even more.
3. Heat clips off amps generated with all solar during warmer months but at a higher rate/sooner with these panels and shortening the period of solar harvesting for the day.
4. Shorter Lifespan from glass panels
5. Cupping is created across the cell.
6. Dirt and Debris Collect in the concave of the cupping.
7. Cupping requires additional cleaning and care for flat panels
8. Due to the panel being polymer, they are not resistant to scratching when cleaned.
9. Marring of surface decreases the capabilities of solar collection.

All very valid things I will watch for. One thing to note - unlike most TC's, my trailer roof is curved/rounded slightly, and not flat, so rain does a fair job of keeping them somewhat clean. I did clean them once already, they seem like they have a fairly durable top coat, I didn't notice any scratching when i was done, but I will watch for that.

One thing I will say about these, coupled with the controller I chose-- Low light performance-- IMHO....OMG, I swear, these things put out a charge with a flashlight. This morning I went out, 8am here in Seattle, completely overcast, and I was already getting 3amps of charge.

[pianotuna]

Hi b,

Yes, solar may be addictive--or the circumstances may change. When I was using my rv a week or two at a time I had enough solar. Now that I full time--I would prefer to have 1300 watts available.

The good thing is that 1300 watts now may cost less than 256 watts did last time I got on the solar wagon.

[Jfet]

There are some positives that you didn't mention, bka.

1) Each cell segment in the ~18 foot long section is diode bypassed meaning partial shading is not nearly as disruptive compared to glass polycrystalline with only 3 bypass diodes typical.

2) A puncture of a section of the panel by something isn't going to have much if any effect on power output. A glass panel will likely crack on puncture and allow water to seep in, eventually reducing or destroying the panel output.

3) Because they are so stuck down, they are not going to be stolen or blown off the roof driving down the road (which has happened to some on this forum with glass panels)

I was considering them, but like I said, I was worried about the heat transfer to the inside of our camper and also I already had purchased traditional glass crystalline panels.

[bka0721]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi B,

Cupping is not an issue with Unisolar. It is with some other companies.

It is true that Unsolar requires a huge area of roof space, but it is also true that their low light performance is better than most other panels.

I may end up starting over because I now want a lot more watts to be available per square foot of panel.

Hi Don!

What many should know, Don was one of a few that helped me get started on my path of obsessiveness on solar. For some, Solar is a drug, for which there is often no return. Damn you Don! :B

While I had not identified manufacturers, so one has the issues identified and can now use that to question whatever Solar choice they make. Also, the many other issues, Don, you were silent on. For that reason my feeling is still heavy in one direction for specific use, in this case RV applications. Toe for Toe, each could be addresses pros and cons for panels or for stick on. Let the buyer/user determine what best suits/works for them.

You'll also note that Don didn't debunk my position on the proper guage cables and proper fusing for banks and electrical equipment (inverter)..

Thats what I appreciate about this forum, good discussions and actions that are shared by many. I for one am glad the OP stuck his big toe into the water and doing some testing. I for one will watch and believe the feedback the OP provides. Thank you.

b

[pianotuna]

Hi B,

Cupping is not an issue with Unisolar. It is with some other companies.

It is true that Unsolar requires a huge area of roof space, but it is also true that their low light performance is better than most other panels.

I may end up starting over because I now want a lot more watts to be available per square foot of panel.

[bka0721]

Boatycall wrote:

tony lee wrote:

bka0721 wrote:
2 different parties that I know opted for this type of solar and after a year's use have discontinued their use, opting to return to the standard glass surfaced panels.

Why?

I'm very curious also... why? Is there something I should know? I mean, I'm recommending this setup to others I know, so if there's something up with them I'd take it as very good advice.

Sorry, haven't been back for a while. It is always good to see others and their discussions too.

There is a couple that are traveling and posting their blog as they travel, known as; Gone with the Wynns' Clicky They are switching out their RV for their next one and their recent reporting on this shared that they would not be going back to a stick on solar for their new one. Another Solar company that actually installs solar onto RVs specifically has come out and recommended that they are not the choice that they will install for their customers. After testing on their own RV. Then I have two different friends that have done this too and their Cons match consistently with each of the aforementioned users and one comment I feel unfounded. These issues are;

1. Impossible to remove if need of replacing.
2. Heat from panels and heat from surface (metal) combines to heat the panels even more.
3. Heat clips off amps generated with all solar during warmer months but at a higher rate/sooner with these panels and shortening the period of solar harvesting for the day.
4. Shorter Lifespan from glass panels
5. Cupping is created across the cell.
6. Dirt and Debris Collect in the concave of the cupping.
7. Cupping requires additional cleaning and care for flat panels
8. Due to the panel being polymer, they are not resistant to scratching when cleaned.
9. Marring of surface decreases the capabilities of solar collection.

The point I find unfounded by those casting negatives on flat/roll solar panels is the deep discounting is often from companies that have gone out of business. This has happened to a greater degree to the glass solar panels too. So I am not sold that this is an indicator.

For me, these type panels are great to use in applications in circumstances a glass solar panel is prohibitive. Such as a remote jungle location where these need to be carried in and in backpack/biking situations.

While this would not be my choice, and isn’t, for Solar collecting. But I am fascinated by the use opportunities that these type panels are providing. What greatly concerns me is when systems are installed without safety and true evaluations of what is safe for amperage in cables. As well as installing system components within prescribed distances as well as proper/safe cable sizes.

An earlier poster (tony_lee) wrote about how battery banks and proper charging regimes is something many should consider, for their weekend use and vacations. Interestingly I wrote an article on this very point a couple of months ago that will be coming up in a couple of weeks in Truck Camper Magazine. As too feel this is an important point that should be considered. Again, by sizing even your battery bank, one should be aware of the safety fuses and proper cabling for the available Amps.

b

[The_Mad_Norsky]

I gotta admit, when I see folks talking electrical about their rigs and adding solar and all that, well you may as well be printing in Egyptian hieroglyphics cause I just get immediately lost.

But I surely do appreciate those that do post anyway, cause learning starts with the first step and goes from there.

So thanks for the info and keep it coming.

[Jfet]

Boatycall wrote:

tony lee wrote:

bka0721 wrote:
2 different parties that I know opted for this type of solar and after a year's use have discontinued their use, opting to return to the standard glass surfaced panels.

Why?

I'm very curious also... why? Is there something I should know? I mean, I'm recommending this setup to others I know, so if there's something up with them I'd take it as very good advice.

I read quite a few reviews on the stick on panels (these are the ones from the now defunct UniSolar, right?) and I did not really see any big negatives. The only thing that concerned me was the extra heat that might be transmitted through the roof to the inside of where the panels are mounted (not really an issue on your trailer though, right?). Having glass panels with some air gap might make for a cooler roof if they were mounted on your living space roof.

I have read that the stick on panels actually work better in low light and partial shading than traditional glass crystalline panels.

[jimh406]

That's pretty cool to have so much solar.

[Boatycall]

tony lee wrote:

bka0721 wrote:
2 different parties that I know opted for this type of solar and after a year's use have discontinued their use, opting to return to the standard glass surfaced panels.

Why?

I'm very curious also... why? Is there something I should know? I mean, I'm recommending this setup to others I know, so if there's something up with them I'd take it as very good advice.