2013+ f350 drw vs f450 for 18k towing

[sean425]

hi guys, new to the forum, but been lurking for quite some time getting some great answers. heres my situation.

im in the market for a raptor 365lev(Dry Weigh-14,383 lbs
Cargo Weigh-3,650 lbs) or the vengence 394 with a Gross Weight of 18043 lbs.

im traveling with my wife and 3 dogs which are around 125 a piece. 225 lb dirt bike and misc cargo.

i accept the fact that my current 2015 f350 SRW isnt ideal for this situation and im ready to bite the bullet for a dually. but my question is weather a used(2013+) f450 will really be that much of a difference compared to a 350 DRW also 2013+ and is the 350 more than enough for these trailers?

ive read the numbers and such, but just looking for some actual on road information and insight. i am not the type of person to half ass so i really want to make sure my rig is comfortable safe and practicable. any help is much appreciated.

thanks guys!

[6_6_Oilburner]

taken wrote:

6.6 Oilburner wrote:

taken wrote:
Sure is a big difference. But since we are talking about the current generation, that's why it was established that they were the same. In those years there are NO axle differences between the 350 and 450 so not misleading at all. Well, from 2011-2014 anyway. 2015+ is a de-rated class 4 truck.

Do you mind me asking how you know this for a fact? I haven't worked on a 450 pick up newer than 10, just cab and chassis rears. But any of my literature for axle parts tells me you are wrong. Not that its uncommon for Dana to be behind a few years on literature/breakdowns. A a quick google search did not reveal any info.

It's in all the Ford lit. It's common knowledge among Ford owners. You can look up part numbers to verify if it's important to you. Maybe you're still confusing CC with pickup frame trucks. 2011-14 CC trucks still use the S110 in a 450.

Well, like I said, the BOM numbers in Dana's system are missing in action. The BOM are up to date to like 2012 or 2013 and they only show 350s with the 80, unlike before the S110 was implemented. I'm not confusing anything persay, I'm honestly a little shocked. I did come right out and say I honestly haven't had my hands on a 450 p/u newer than 10.

[transferred]

taken wrote:

6.6 Oilburner wrote:

taken wrote:
Sure is a big difference. But since we are talking about the current generation, that's why it was established that they were the same. In those years there are NO axle differences between the 350 and 450 so not misleading at all. Well, from 2011-2014 anyway. 2015+ is a de-rated class 4 truck.

Do you mind me asking how you know this for a fact? I haven't worked on a 450 pick up newer than 10, just cab and chassis rears. But any of my literature for axle parts tells me you are wrong. Not that its uncommon for Dana to be behind a few years on literature/breakdowns. A a quick google search did not reveal any info.

It's in all the Ford lit. It's common knowledge among Ford owners. You can look up part numbers to verify if it's important to you. Maybe you're still confusing CC with pickup frame trucks. 2011-14 CC trucks still use the S110 in a 450.

As an F450 PU owner I can confirm Taken is correct. The proper truck went on hiatus for four years.

[taken]

6.6 Oilburner wrote:

taken wrote:
Sure is a big difference. But since we are talking about the current generation, that's why it was established that they were the same. In those years there are NO axle differences between the 350 and 450 so not misleading at all. Well, from 2011-2014 anyway. 2015+ is a de-rated class 4 truck.

Do you mind me asking how you know this for a fact? I haven't worked on a 450 pick up newer than 10, just cab and chassis rears. But any of my literature for axle parts tells me you are wrong. Not that its uncommon for Dana to be behind a few years on literature/breakdowns. A a quick google search did not reveal any info.

It's in all the Ford lit. It's common knowledge among Ford owners. You can look up part numbers to verify if it's important to you. Maybe you're still confusing CC with pickup frame trucks. 2011-14 CC trucks still use the S110 in a 450.

[6_6_Oilburner]

taken wrote:
Sure is a big difference. But since we are talking about the current generation, that's why it was established that they were the same. In those years there are NO axle differences between the 350 and 450 so not misleading at all. Well, from 2011-2014 anyway. 2015+ is a de-rated class 4 truck.

Do you mind me asking how you know this for a fact? I haven't worked on a 450 pick up newer than 10, just cab and chassis rears. But any of my literature for axle parts tells me you are wrong. Not that its uncommon for Dana to be behind a few years on literature/breakdowns. A a quick google search did not reveal any info.

[taken]

Sure is a big difference. But since we are talking about the current generation, that's why it was established that they were the same. In those years there are NO axle differences between the 350 and 450 so not misleading at all. Well, from 2011-2014 anyway. 2015+ is a de-rated class 4 truck.

[6_6_Oilburner]

taken wrote:
The S110 was in the chassis cab F450's not the pickup truck F450 in the current generation. The 2008-2010 F450 pickups did have the S110 but that's not what we are discussing here. The new 2015 F450 comes with the S130. The 350 DRW has the Dana 80 as did the 2011-2014 F450.

There is a BIG difference between the 80 and the 110/130. That was my point. The only difference between the 110 and the 130 is the axle size and Diff carrier.

I realize the discussion is more or less whether a 350 is enough, and it would seem it is. But to say they are identical is misleading. The 4wd 450s have a larger Axle joint than the 350s.

I can't comment one way or another on the 450 pickups newer than 10 as thats the Newest 450 pickup we have done a rear in at work. But Dana Does not show any BOMs for 80s in 450s after 2004.

[nremtp143]

NC Hauler wrote:

ljr wrote:

If it's only about weight for you, go with the F-350.

I'm curious as to why turning radius of the F-450 is SIGNIFICANTLY smaller than that of an F350 dually. Just curious...I wouldn't have thought that.

ON EDIT: just read above post, which wasn't being posted while I was posing the question..so, guess I got my answer:)

To answer your question, the F350 4x4s front wheels turn out to a 38* angle. The F450s front wheels(and the WIDE TRACK F350s) turn out to a full 45*. That is why the F450s are easier to turn, back, jack and chase campers. The only word of caution with an F450 4x4, if you ever turn the steering wheel to the locked, or almost locked position in 4WD, the front knuckles will bind and break. And that gets expensive quickly. The F350s will buck and lunge, but the F450s can actually break front end components. I've seen it done twice, while jacking 5ers in the mud, by the same idiot.

[taken]

DavinD wrote:

taken wrote:
Davin, you're truck likely weighs about 85-8700# loaded with a full tank and hitch in. My truck is an extended cab and was right at 8500 with family in, hitch in, and tank full. Your crew will weigh a touch more. So, with your 11.5k GVWR you have 2800-3000 of pin weight capacity. You really can't go by the old 20% ratio as you will likely not be towing at the trailer's GVWR and loading as well as axle placement changes things a lot from RV to RV. If you look at mine, you'd never think it could be so light on the pin but I have the CAT scale tag to prove it. So, you are on the right page with weighing a potential rig. If there is no CAT scale nearby, you could always buy a Sherline scale and check right on the dealer's lot...

I also have a pretty "full" family. Probably 550+ pounds of people.

So, another 150# off the top.

[DavinD]

taken wrote:
Davin, you're truck likely weighs about 85-8700# loaded with a full tank and hitch in. My truck is an extended cab and was right at 8500 with family in, hitch in, and tank full. Your crew will weigh a touch more. So, with your 11.5k GVWR you have 2800-3000 of pin weight capacity. You really can't go by the old 20% ratio as you will likely not be towing at the trailer's GVWR and loading as well as axle placement changes things a lot from RV to RV. If you look at mine, you'd never think it could be so light on the pin but I have the CAT scale tag to prove it. So, you are on the right page with weighing a potential rig. If there is no CAT scale nearby, you could always buy a Sherline scale and check right on the dealer's lot...

I also have a pretty "full" family. Probably 550+ pounds of people.

[taken]

Davin, you're truck likely weighs about 85-8700# loaded with a full tank and hitch in. My truck is an extended cab and was right at 8500 with family in, hitch in, and tank full. Your crew will weigh a touch more. So, with your 11.5k GVWR you have 2800-3000 of pin weight capacity. You really can't go by the old 20% ratio as you will likely not be towing at the trailer's GVWR and loading as well as axle placement changes things a lot from RV to RV. If you look at mine, you'd never think it could be so light on the pin but I have the CAT scale tag to prove it. So, you are on the right page with weighing a potential rig. If there is no CAT scale nearby, you could always buy a Sherline scale and check right on the dealer's lot...

[DavinD]

Interesting topic. I've been looking at a 16k GVWR fiver but have resisted because I thought it would put me over the GVWR on my 2103 SRW F350. I may have to take a trip to the scales to see what's really up.

[taken]

transferred wrote:
Wide track front end is a boon. Wouldn't choose a DRW that doesn't have it. As others have said, avoid the "fake" F450 years.

Yep, it's one of the options that will keep me in the Ford camp when I buy my next truck!

[transferred]

Wide track front end is a boon. Wouldn't choose a DRW that doesn't have it. As others have said, avoid the "fake" F450 years.

[taken]

ib516 wrote:

taken wrote:

ib516 wrote:
Isn't the 2013 F"450" just an F350 with 4.30 gears anyway? IIRC, the F350 was actually more capable in many respects than the 450 was in that model year. They had many complaints about the low top speed (81 mph) of the F450 (why, I have no idea, 81 should be fast enough).

The 2008 - 2010 F450s were burly, after that, not so much. In 2011, they were changed to be basically just an F350 with a 450 badge. They lost their unique frame, Dana 110 axle, 19.5" wheels/tires, etc.

I think it is 2015 where they beefed them back up again to true class 4 status.

Yes, I clarified all that a few times in this thread. 2011-2014 the 350 DRW and 450 are identical but for the wide track front axle and the 4:30 gears as opposed to 3:73's. Order the high capacity tow package and you get both those options on a 350 DRW. 2008-10 and 2015+, the 450 is a completely different animal.

Posted before I read the whole thread. I see I duplicated info. My bad 🙂

No problem. We all do it from time to time! :B