2018 Titan vs Ford F150 XD

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

Enjoy and box it out all you Nissan and Ford fans

[ShinerBock]

Fake news? I watched them tow the Ford another three times and not once did Kent say "out of control". In fact, the only time he even said control was at 6:36 of the video when he stated " As much as we like light weight for a lot of reasons, fuel mileage and all that, it doesn't help your control" He never said "out of control".

Porpoising has more to do with the suspension than the weight of the vehicle.

Suspension Enhancement To Reduce Porpoising When Towing 30 Ft Travel Trailer w/ 2015 GMC 1500

What Stops Porpoising on Tow Vehicle that is Using Weight Distribution with Trailer

Notice both of those trucks were GM 1500's with the 6.2L that are much heavier than the Ford in the video. Adding suspension upgrades or selecting a vehicle with a stronger suspension (F150 HD or higher) would eliminate or substantially reduce porpoising.

[RobertRyan]

carringb wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

I never heard them say that they felt it was "out of control" either.... :?

In fact, they even stated at the very end that the F150 was fine for that amount of weight for people who don't tow it very often.

Well clearly all our trucks are inferior because all of the highways in Australia are steeper, longer, and higher. And they must drive much faster than the measly 75 MPH speed limit in Colorado.

Kent Sundling said it felt out of control and porposing., teeter totting in his words. Nathan mentioned the ride was not very nice and the Pickup bounced around a lot..There are steeper gradients here and no doubt in the US. No surprise the Nissan felt better with a base weight of 6200lbs versus 49170lbs. Lack of engine braking from the Fords turbocharged 3.5 would contribute to the excessive braking compared to the Titan.

[Lessmore]

Decades ago, we used our '76 Impala to tow light trailers. It was the last of the big, GM sedans. It was rear wheel drive, full frame, etc...old fashioned platform for a sedan. The rear springs were tired, when we started towing, again light trailers.
The car's rear squatted, it felt a bit unstable. I took it to a shop that specialized in suspension work for mostly highway tractors, gravel dump trucks, etc...they worked on smaller vehicles too and really knew their stuff.

They installed some heavy duty MOOG springs in the Impala and what a difference in towing, handling solo, etc. Ride was more firm, but not bad and given enough road width that Chevy could really hustle through the corners with a load attached. No sway, no bottoming, no instability.

I know it was just a car, but I can well understand the difference the installation of the proper, heavy duty springs can affect the load capacity, trailer hauling ability...positively...of any vehicle.

It would be interesting to see TFL guys (I'm a big fan of them) tow test an F 150 HD.

[ShinerBock]

demiles wrote:
They made it clear that the F150 suspension had issues handling that much weight even when it was setup using a scale to assure proper loading. So now consider the average Joe connecting his travel trailer which may be less overall weight but just as much tongue weight. They commented how tight they had to make the WD bars and Joe has to do the same. The outcome for Joe just might be worse than than what they experienced with controlled loading. Visit the f150 forums and you’ll see that a lot people complain about instability of some type with this truck. They’ll spend thousands in replacing tires, shocks, install airbags/Timbrens, and sway bars they to get a decent ride. I wanted to like this truck for towing but those complaints really turned me off from buying it.

I think this is most regular half tons in general or with any vehicle the closer you get to its limitations. What most people don't know is that there are five different leaf springs for the F150 ranging from a 3,500 lbs capacity to a 4,800 lb capacity. Most trucks on the lot are on the lower end of those ratings and you have to special order the $1,600 HD package like I did to get the 4,800 lb ratings.

When I had my 2012 Crew Cab F150HD, I also had a 2012 F150 Super Cab company sales truck that I towed with at least a few times a month. Believe me, there is a night and day difference in how the regular suspension F150 and the HD suspension F150 handled the weight. I would put an F150 HD up against a Titan XD and its 4,900 rear axle rating any day of the week and twice on Sundays. A regular F150...... not so much

[demiles]

They made it clear that the F150 suspension had issues handling that much weight even when it was setup using a scale to assure proper loading. So now consider the average Joe connecting his travel trailer which may be less overall weight but just as much tongue weight. They commented how tight they had to make the WD bars and Joe has to do the same. The outcome for Joe just might be worse than than what they experienced with controlled loading. Visit the f150 forums and you’ll see that a lot people complain about instability of some type with this truck. They’ll spend thousands in replacing tires, shocks, install airbags/Timbrens, and sway bars they to get a decent ride. I wanted to like this truck for towing but those complaints really turned me off from buying it.

[carringb]

ShinerBock wrote:

I never heard them say that they felt it was "out of control" either.... :?

In fact, they even stated at the very end that the F150 was fine for that amount of weight for people who don't tow it very often.

Well clearly all our trucks are inferior because all of the highways in Australia are steeper, longer, and higher. And they must drive much faster than the measly 75 MPH speed limit in Colorado.

[ShinerBock]

Lessmore wrote:

I watched the video test a couple of days ago. My impression was that the testers didn't say or imply that the the Ford ".. was out of control..." as you have indicated. My view was that they felt that the Nissan exhibited more stability in it's ability to control the trailer movement...as compared to the F 150.

Using the phrase 'out of control' paints a picture of a vehicle that is completely unstable .

I never heard them say that they felt it was "out of control" either.... :?

In fact, they even stated at the very end that the F150 was fine for that amount of weight for people who don't tow it very often.

[Lessmore]

RobertRyan wrote:

carringb wrote:

RobertRyan wrote:

Maybe. Ford says the Pickup passes the J2807 standard for towing that weight,Going By the results either the standard is not representative or Ford is making a bad call on it's compliance.
Having to brake 9 times compared to twice on the Titan XD on a fairly moderate gradient and feeling you had little control, suggests something is pretty wrong.

It towed it, didn't it? J2807 has no requirements for engine braking. They did not overheat their brakes or lose any braking performance, so I'd say it worked as intended. I'm not saying engine braking only isn't nice, but it certainly isn't necessary, especially for somebody who buys a truck for only occasional towing.

Just 12 years ago, a stock Cummins diesel would have required the service brakes even more.

Fellows who did it felt it was out of control. Luckily it was on a modest gradiant

I watched the video test a couple of days ago. My impression was that the testers didn't say or imply that the the Ford ".. was out of control..." as you have indicated. My view was that they felt that the Nissan exhibited more stability in it's ability to control the trailer movement...as compared to the F 150.

Using the phrase 'out of control' paints a picture of a vehicle that is completely unstable .

[RobertRyan]

carringb wrote:

RobertRyan wrote:

Maybe. Ford says the Pickup passes the J2807 standard for towing that weight,Going By the results either the standard is not representative or Ford is making a bad call on it's compliance.
Having to brake 9 times compared to twice on the Titan XD on a fairly moderate gradient and feeling you had little control, suggests something is pretty wrong.

It towed it, didn't it? J2807 has no requirements for engine braking. They did not overheat their brakes or lose any braking performance, so I'd say it worked as intended. I'm not saying engine braking only isn't nice, but it certainly isn't necessary, especially for somebody who buys a truck for only occasional towing.

Just 12 years ago, a stock Cummins diesel would have required the service brakes even more.

Fellows who did it felt it was out of control. Luckily it was on a modest gradiant

[TurnThePage]

Agreed. They demonstrated that Ecoboost can easily manage the load, but the truck struggled some. A person would be foolish to choose that F150 for that kind of duty on a regular basis. I would like to have seen how the HD F150 handled it.

Nissan appears to have a winner with their gas XD.

[Bionic_Man]

I guess I am also in the camp of I wish they would have tested the heavier package in the F150. I know first hand the negative effect tires that are too soft for the job have on the towing experience.

I wish they would have talked about the average speed going up the hill. How long does it take to make the run at an average speed of 60 MPH (the speed limit)? From this test, it looks like the EcoBoost holds that 60 the full run - something I can't do with my Yukon Denali XL towing my 7000 pound boat.

The EcoBoost is an impressive tow engine. These tests always make me wonder why they make whatever changes are necessary to offer it as an option in a F250.

[carringb]

RobertRyan wrote:

Maybe. Ford says the Pickup passes the J2807 standard for towing that weight,Going By the results either the standard is not representative or Ford is making a bad call on it's compliance.
Having to brake 9 times compared to twice on the Titan XD on a fairly moderate gradient and feeling you had little control, suggests something is pretty wrong.

It towed it, didn't it? J2807 has no requirements for engine braking. They did not overheat their brakes or lose any braking performance, so I'd say it worked as intended. I'm not saying engine braking only isn't nice, but it certainly isn't necessary, especially for somebody who buys a truck for only occasional towing.

Just 12 years ago, a stock Cummins diesel would have required the service brakes even more.

[ShinerBock]

RobertRyan wrote:

carringb wrote:

RobertRyan wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:
They should have tested the F150 HD versus the Titan XD.

No, the specs said that version of the F150 could do it. It was certainly fast up the climb

However there's an option for more payload available, and would have matched or bettered the payload of the Nissan XD. Keep in mind the XD is Nissan's high payload option. You don't think comparing similar payloads is a better comparison?

Maybe. Ford says the Pickup passes the J2807 standard for towing that weight,Going By the results either the standard is not representative or Ford is making a bad call on it's compliance.
Having to brake 9 times compared to twice on the Titan XD on a fairly moderate gradient and feeling you had little control, suggests something is pretty wrong.

The Ford in the video pulled it safely so it does comply with J2807. However, it just did not tow it as well as the Titan XD in regards to stability and bounce control which the J2807 does not test for. This is because the Titan XD has a stiffer suspension which helped control the bounce and the trailer nose diving every time you brake. When the trailer nose dives(which they mentioned the Ford was doing), it feels like the trailer is pushing the truck. The F150 HD with it's stronger and stiffer suspension would have controlled bounce and trailer nose dive better than that regular F150 would which is why I stated that it would have been a better comparison to the XD.

As far as braking. Only nine braking events may not be up to today's expectations, but compared to my old DRW diesel that is pretty good. Nine braking events is not a lot over the course of eight miles when towing 12k down a 7% grade highway. My heavier old diesels that didn't have exhaust brake or throttle vacuum like a gasser does would have needed more than that.

There is no doubt that the bigger V8 engine in the Titan XD will create more vacuum and slow the truck down better then the smaller V6 engine, but it is a moot point if the brakes are more than able to handle it. But seriously, only nine brakes events are not bad considering the conditions.

[brulaz]

RobertRyan wrote:

...
Ford says the Pickup passes the J2807 standard for towing that weight,Going By the results either the standard is not representative or Ford is making a bad call on it's compliance.
Having to brake 9 times compared to twice on the Titan XD on a fairly moderate gradient and feeling you had little control, suggests something is pretty wrong.

I think the main problem is the Ecoboost's relative lack of engine braking. The HD version of the F150, with it's LT tires and stiffer suspension, might have helped in the "control" department, but when you're having a hard time keeping your speed down, things can get sketchy fast.

Ended up with a diesel after 5 years with our F150 EcoB. Towing heavy (8500# trailer, 14,500# GCW) worked fine most of the time, and it certainly got up any hill, but after smoking the brakes going down once, I avoided the steep descents afterwards.

A V8 or diesel has gotta be better going down.

Not sure how the J2807 standard handles the down slopes.