4 season travel Trailers?

[ourayphotograph]

Hello, new to this site.
I am in Colorado and searching for a small used Travel trailer. I am hearing that for cold weather use, I would need a so-called 4 season, or specially insulated on the underside? Sounds like the water lines etc are run within a heated zone?
Most of the campers I look into, the owners simply have no idea.
Any tips on how and what to look for? Can standard campers be modified for cold weather use?
Thanks!
Michael

[goducks10]

Vintage465 wrote:
For some reason, when I think 4 season, I am thinking you're off the road, away from hook ups and surviving week/s at a time in below freezing temps. I think there should be as much emphasis on power sustainability as there is on the insulation package. I don't know of any rig that "really" comes with enough of a battery pack, solar and back up generator to do that.

Many Northwood MFG trailers come prepped for a generator and if ordered installed at the factory. Most come with or as an option, solar equipped or solar ready. The new buyer can equip any or most trailers with as many batteries as they can afford or fit to the trailer.

I'm not sure of any other MFG that offers as many models in their line up "Gen Ready" as Northwood MFG does. Not every model is gen ready but several are.

[Vintage465]

For some reason, when I think 4 season, I am thinking you're off the road, away from hook ups and surviving week/s at a time in below freezing temps. I think there should be as much emphasis on power sustainability as there is on the insulation package. I don't know of any rig that "really" comes with enough of a battery pack, solar and back up generator to do that.

[tnrv_er]

ourayphotography wrote:
Hello, new to this site.
I am in Colorado and searching for a small used Travel trailer. I am hearing that for cold weather use, I would need a so-called 4 season, or specially insulated on the underside? Sounds like the water lines etc are run within a heated zone?
Most of the campers I look into, the owners simply have no idea.
Any tips on how and what to look for? Can standard campers be modified for cold weather use?
Thanks!
Michael

Outdoors rv makes 4 season campers. Check out Ketelsens in Wheat Ridge CO. they are a ORV dealer. Might have something used that will suit your needs

[ourayphotograph]

Hello all, I probably have to lean towards a standard travel trailer as opposed to a full 4 season. Just none to be found. I can do some weatherizing a bit myself later. Plan to look at this model:
2009 Gulf Stream Amerilite 21 MBS Travel Trailer
Any feedback on this model?
Thanks again!
Michael

[ourayphotograph]

I am not super worried about the insulation properties as opposed to things freezing up due to plumbing design. Poor insulation will mostly be less efficient. I can live with that, but things freezing/seizing and bursting would be much worse. I lived in a mountain mobile home park before, and most had single pane windows, very common. I do construction, so I think I can do some modifications if that is possible. I have just never even looked under a travel trailer, and it sounds like there are many plumbing configurations. So far in my search, zero state 4 season, or even 3 season. hmm

[bobndot]

How would I do a pressurized air leak test as westend recommended?

Here is one way seal-tech. The test was costing $125 in 2010.
Some people have made up their own system.

One thing to take into consideration, that happened to me.
I bought an A.Fox TC slideout model that was a wood framed unit in 2004. 2004 and prior years had many water leaking issues. I bought it because everyone praised the unit and how well it was insulated.
I replaced it in 2008 with a Lance non slide unit after having to rebuild the AF at a $15k loss.
Using the new 2008 unit at the same campground in the same basic below zero weather conditions, my propane consumption improved by 60% . Plus, i could never get the AF above 65F. It did help to pull in the slide but i had to climb onto the roof in order to clear off the ice/snow on the slides top. Slide-top awnings made the chore more difficult , dont use a slide topper,the wind blows snow under it and you can't get under to chip away the ice.

rv winter camping info/mods

[westend]

Frank Shore wrote:
...and it adds quite a bit of R-Level.

Really, how much does it add?

If anyone wants to perform the leak test, they can search the Forum as there have been many posts about it. "Sealtech" is one commercial company that performs the test.

[ourayphotograph]

Thanks. I googled the Lance 1685's, but they all look way out of our budget. How would I do a pressurized air leak test as westend recommended? I see a few that state hail damage, which I am told is pretty normal.
I have been searching RVtrader and craigslist. Are there some better sites for searching used trailers?
Appreciate it!

[FrankShore]

PaulJ2 wrote:

FrankShore wrote:
Look at the Lance 1685 and models above that. They offer true 4 Season Packages

X2: Have the Lance 1685 with four season package. Enclosed tanks and valves. Duct heating throughout including into the underbelly tank area.
Includes dual pane windows and vinyl snap on covers for the ceiling vents.

Hey Paul, You forgot to mention the 2 layers of Azdel, one on the outside and one inside - this produces no rot, no mildew, no mold waterproof, and excellent sound proofing, and it adds quite a bit of R-Level. All the heat ducts are located throughout the cabin (including the one in the bathroom!)

[profdant139]

You might be able to get away with a well built "three and a half season" trailer. I do a fair amount of snow camping with a small Fun Finder -- the walls, ceiling, and floor contain a thick pad of styrofoam, and I then insulated the fresh water tank. I am guessing that a lot of the newer trailers have similar insulation.

But we have not camped in anything below 9 degrees, so this is not the same thing as a trailer designed to take sub-zero temps. The windows are not double pane, and the water lines are not heated. So we put up foam pads over the windows at night to cut down on heat loss, and I have developed a manual method for circulating hot water into the fresh water tank. (Let me know if you want more details on that.)

Living in Ouray, which is essentially Boondocking Heaven, it may make sense for you to pay the big dollars for an Arctic Fox and a big truck. For us, although we love cold weather camping, most of the time in the Sierra it is above freezing, at least in the daytime. So getting a true four season rig might be overkill for us. Our trailer is very light (2500 pounds), easy to tow with a Tacoma.

Having said that, if Outdoor RV made a 14 foot trailer, I would be sorely tempted!

[totaldla]

I've been most impressed with ORV'S Black Rock series. 4 season rated and a great looking off-highway capable chassis. Only thing I didn't like was the lack of double pane windows.

I edited to show that the ORV trailers DO come with dual-pane windows standard. I was looking at a different line.

[westend]

Hail damaged? A good look at the title will tell if it has been totalled by an insurance payout.

I'd also investigate the weatherproofing by doing a pressurized-air leak test before purchase. That will turn up any leaks in the roof or sidewalls.You need to get to any leaking spots before the rain and snow can get in.

[ourayphotograph]

Thanks so much you guys. Looking at a Nash now, has some hail damage, any thoughts?

Anyway, with the unit approaching 15 years old, I was concerned that the rubber roof had a "life expectancy" and perhaps we should "preventative maintenance-wise" replace it. We spoke with the service manager at Ketelsen's and he said no, don't replace it unless it has leaks and is not repairable. Besides, current technology has tape materials and adhesive sealants that can seal and repair nearly any rubber roof if/when it leaks. If hail damage impact has not "pulverized" the underlying plywood roof, you should be okay.

While there, the service manager was able to look up in some database similar to Kelly Blue Book what the value was. It showed our unit's original msrp at $20K (which was incorrect - with our "options" our unit was $4K higher) with current value around $5K. Increase that amount by the msrp differences and the many structural upgrades, and I would estimate a fair asking price may be $6.5K or even $6K. While the tires are in good condition (tread depth), they will be four years old this fall. I would consider selling it with new rubber or adjusting the price down to cover new rubber and you can buy the tires yourself.

Northwood makes two "levels" of trailers: three season (Nash) and four season (Artic Fox). If my freshwater tank was inside, under the bed (as in the Artic Fox), then it would essentially be an Artic Fox. As it is, the freshwater tank is under the floor and exposed to winter temps. When we camped in the winter it was usually only for a long weekend, and then we would carry our water in 5 gal. containers and store the water in the bathtub where it would not freeze.

The wall/roof/floor insulation of the Nash is otherwise the same as the Artic Fox when built in 2002.

[TurnThePage]

If the main plumbing is inside, the rest can be made to work fairly easy. My Pioneer trailer was $10k brand new in 2004 and is by no means a 4 season trailer, but it does well way below freezing. Those kinds of trailers can be had for real cheap, but be careful especially for leaks. Aside from the fresh water pickup and the black/grey drains, all of my plumbing is inside, typically behind counters, etc. I've added ventilation to those areas and rerouted some minor heat ducting to keep them warm. I added heat pads and insulation to the holding tanks and valves too. I use the same plastic membrane that's added to home windows, which helps a fair amount. I can also completely cover the windows with insulated curtains. Insulated covers in the ceiling vents are a big help too. I put plastic window panes on my screen door (like a storm door), which when sandwiched between the door frame and the closed door, makes a great barrier. That one alone made a huge difference in my trailer. I insulated the wall panels that are between the storage spaces and the interior of the trailer. When cold camping I also put insulation behind those storage doors too. Make sure the outside shower is winterized, or better yet, remove the hose portion and stuff that cavity with insulation. After that, make sure you have a generator and lots of propane. Mine is definitely not considered 4 season, but it allows me to go out just about any time I wish. There's ways to make 'em work. You don't absolutely have to have a 4 season, unless you are planning on extended outings. Good luck!