Air bags/shocks and the anticipated ride.

[jstaffon]

I have a 2013 GMC Sierra 2500 HD diesel and a 35' 2016 Forest River Rockwood 5th wheel. I've been pulling 5th wheels since 2013 when I bought my new GMC. My ride is pretty good but do experience a little movement from the trailer when pulling. I'm pretty sure a dually would help but don't want to make that investment. I was hoping air bags/shocks might help. I've got 77K miles on my truck and I'm looking at new shocks. I'm considering air bags/shocks but don't want a stiff/bumpy ride when NOT pulling my trailer. I've never owned or ridden in a vehicle with air shocks. Can I adjust my ride so that I have better control when pulling the trailer and still have a smoothish ride when empty? Thanks in advance!

[jstaffon]

Thanks all! What a wonderful Forum! I appreciate everyone's input!

[mkirsch]

jstaffon wrote:

dockmasterdave wrote:
I've had air shocks in the past and will probably be adding another set soon.
They are easy to adjust pressure up or down. If the pressure is low it will ride just like before, pump the pressure up and the rear goes up and stiffens a little.
Still not a horrible ride when pumped up.

I don't want my backend to go up at all. With the trailer attached, the trailer and truck look like they are riding level. If I raise the backend, the trailer will ride high and shift weight to the rear axle of the trailer. Do you have control so you can provide stability with the shocks without raising the backend?

That is GOOD because shock absorbers are not supposed to be load-bearing unless the vehicle was specifically designed that way. Your average everyday pickup truck is not. They are there to dampen out the motion, not raise or lower your suspension, not to support any appreciable load other than what is imparted on them by the suspension cycling.

There are "air shocks" that are designed to act as helper springs, but just because they exist does not mean that they are good products, or the correct thing to use. You can also buy magnets that go on your fuel line that are supposed to increase your fuel mileage...

[ib516]

I think in order to get the best advice, you need a quick explanation terms that describe automotive suspension.

1. "Shocks" are cylindrical tubes filled with a mix of oil and gasses and serve to dampen (slow down) the bouncing of the springs. Without shocks, your truck would bounce like a diving board with a person on the end of it. Shocks do NOT support weight.

2. "Springs" are the things that carry the weight. They can be a leaf spring type (like your truck has), or a coil spring like a Ram 1500 or 2500 has. They can also be a torsion (twist) type spring.

Airbags are SPRINGS. They do nothing to dampen the springs oscillation. They carry weight. Aftermarket shocks can help some with the up and down motion over bumps as they resist movement of the springs (compression), but the vast majority of load carrying is done by the SPRINGS.

If you are concerned with the amount of suspension droop when not moving, that is a spring issue. If you are concerned with the amount of rear end droop when driving over bumps, or a continuance of the suspension cycling after the bump, that can be helped somewhat by getting a new set of quality shocks.

For additional rear spring rate (stiffer when loaded), there are many aftermarket solutions out there for that. Timbrens (airless airbags), Roadmaster Active Suspension, Airbags, Additional leaf springs can be added, etc.

[ksss]

I don't think the ride issues your noticing are due to the shocks. Although if they have never been replaced, it may help with the ride as well. I think a hitch like this http://www.trailersaver.com/see-how-it-works/ would likely do more to remove the issues your feeling when towing. If the truck is mostly level with the trailer in tow, I am not sure how bags would make a difference. What I think what your experiencing has more to do with the fifth wheel hitch than the pickup suspension. Your truck has the updated suspension that was implemented in 2011 and remains the same until 2020.

[twodownzero]

jstaffon wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

twodownzero wrote:


I think you meant "damping." I don't think shocks are going to moisten his rearend.

You're right Merriam (Webster).

Yeah but I knew what he meant.... 🙂

I did, but it was funny to comment about moistening his rearend.

[azdryheat]

Problem with 5th wheels is they are designed like a teeter-totter with the fulcrum (wheels) in the middle of the trailer. Of course it's not going to be a smooth ride, what with the crappy roads we travel on. We need to have the wheels in the back like the semi's but then our trucks wouldn't be able to handle the high tongue weight. We can come up with all kinds of bandaid fixes but they don't address the real problem of axle placement.

[jstaffon]

Groover wrote:

jstaffon wrote:

dockmasterdave wrote:
I've had air shocks in the past and will probably be adding another set soon.
They are easy to adjust pressure up or down. If the pressure is low it will ride just like before, pump the pressure up and the rear goes up and stiffens a little.
Still not a horrible ride when pumped up.

I don't want my backend to go up at all. With the trailer attached, the trailer and truck look like they are riding level. If I raise the backend, the trailer will ride high and shift weight to the rear axle of the trailer. Do you have control so you can provide stability with the shocks without raising the backend?

If you put air in the bags they WILL raise your truck and increase your spring rate. That is what they do. And, the higher the rating of the air spring the more it increases your spring rate. So if you ever go the route of airbags don't go overboard with the biggest bags you can find. Also, you have a choice of controlling them separately or together. If you keep them separate it can be good with a high center of gravity but it will also shake you around more when only one side hits the bump at a time. For low center of gravity and offroad I like having them together.

What type of suspension does your trailer have? If it is a daisy chain leaf setup it will do a pretty good job of balancing the axles within a decent range of hitch height, just be sure that the center rocker is not close to one end or the other. If you have torsion axles they are very sensitive to hitch height.

My trailer has torsion axles.

[jstaffon]

mich800 wrote:

jstaffon wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Ok, here is MHO.
But, I have no idea what you mean by "movement?" Ya you're going to feel movement. You have a heavy 35' 5er in back of you. You're going to feel movement.

If I were you I would start by put a set of Bilstein shocks on. Chevy OEM shocks are junk right out of the factory IMHO. Start with that and see how the ride is.

If your truck is sagging then I would put a set of bags on it.

Can you describe what you're feeling or what you want your truck to do better?

The movement is minor. In an attempt to characterize the movement...I guess I feel tugging on the truck when going over dips in the road and some slight side to side pulling in cross-wind towing. To be honest, I may be too picky because the ride is quite comfortable. I'm trying to tweak it a bit. I thought maybe the movement I'm feeling is a result of weak shocks.

You may be an individual that is in tune with the vehicle and notices things that many do not or just ignore. I am more curious of this "tugging" you feel. I feel that or something similar with various towing combinations. The closest I can describe it, is it is like the truck and trailer are being pulled apart. I think it is just a function on how the trailer axles hit and go over the bumps slightly breaking the stride of the tow vehicle. But this may be entirely different from what you are feeling.

That's a pretty good description. It's probably a fact of life but I thought I would mention it.

[jstaffon]

Grit dog wrote:

twodownzero wrote:


I think you meant "damping." I don't think shocks are going to moisten his rearend.

You're right Merriam (Webster).

Yeah but I knew what he meant.... 🙂

[Grit_dog]

twodownzero wrote:


I think you meant "damping." I don't think shocks are going to moisten his rearend.

You're right Merriam (Webster).

[mich800]

jstaffon wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Ok, here is MHO.
But, I have no idea what you mean by "movement?" Ya you're going to feel movement. You have a heavy 35' 5er in back of you. You're going to feel movement.

If I were you I would start by put a set of Bilstein shocks on. Chevy OEM shocks are junk right out of the factory IMHO. Start with that and see how the ride is.

If your truck is sagging then I would put a set of bags on it.

Can you describe what you're feeling or what you want your truck to do better?

The movement is minor. In an attempt to characterize the movement...I guess I feel tugging on the truck when going over dips in the road and some slight side to side pulling in cross-wind towing. To be honest, I may be too picky because the ride is quite comfortable. I'm trying to tweak it a bit. I thought maybe the movement I'm feeling is a result of weak shocks.

You may be an individual that is in tune with the vehicle and notices things that many do not or just ignore. I am more curious of this "tugging" you feel. I feel that or something similar with various towing combinations. The closest I can describe it, is it is like the truck and trailer are being pulled apart. I think it is just a function on how the trailer axles hit and go over the bumps slightly breaking the stride of the tow vehicle. But this may be entirely different from what you are feeling.

[Groover]

jstaffon wrote:

dockmasterdave wrote:
I've had air shocks in the past and will probably be adding another set soon.
They are easy to adjust pressure up or down. If the pressure is low it will ride just like before, pump the pressure up and the rear goes up and stiffens a little.
Still not a horrible ride when pumped up.

I don't want my backend to go up at all. With the trailer attached, the trailer and truck look like they are riding level. If I raise the backend, the trailer will ride high and shift weight to the rear axle of the trailer. Do you have control so you can provide stability with the shocks without raising the backend?

If you put air in the bags they WILL raise your truck and increase your spring rate. That is what they do. And, the higher the rating of the air spring the more it increases your spring rate. So if you ever go the route of airbags don't go overboard with the biggest bags you can find. Also, you have a choice of controlling them separately or together. If you keep them separate it can be good with a high center of gravity but it will also shake you around more when only one side hits the bump at a time. For low center of gravity and offroad I like having them together.

What type of suspension does your trailer have? If it is a daisy chain leaf setup it will do a pretty good job of balancing the axles within a decent range of hitch height, just be sure that the center rocker is not close to one end or the other. If you have torsion axles they are very sensitive to hitch height.

[twodownzero]

Grit dog wrote:

jstaffon wrote:

dockmasterdave wrote:
I've had air shocks in the past and will probably be adding another set soon.
They are easy to adjust pressure up or down. If the pressure is low it will ride just like before, pump the pressure up and the rear goes up and stiffens a little.
Still not a horrible ride when pumped up.

I don't want my backend to go up at all. With the trailer attached, the trailer and truck look like they are riding level. If I raise the backend, the trailer will ride high and shift weight to the rear axle of the trailer. Do you have control so you can provide stability with the shocks without raising the backend?

By this statement, you do not want to add any spring rate enhancing devices (airbags, helpers, etc). Shocks will not raise your ride height at all loaded or empty (the pressure of high end shocks "might" raise the back of an empty truck a small fraction of an inch, for those that may pick apart my statement).

A new heavy duty set of shocks will help with dampening. A set of performance shocks like Fox 2.0s etc will help even more when loaded, but be overkill for daily driving if they're valved for a loaded truck.

I think you meant "damping." I don't think shocks are going to moisten his rearend.

[Grit_dog]

jstaffon wrote:

dockmasterdave wrote:
I've had air shocks in the past and will probably be adding another set soon.
They are easy to adjust pressure up or down. If the pressure is low it will ride just like before, pump the pressure up and the rear goes up and stiffens a little.
Still not a horrible ride when pumped up.

I don't want my backend to go up at all. With the trailer attached, the trailer and truck look like they are riding level. If I raise the backend, the trailer will ride high and shift weight to the rear axle of the trailer. Do you have control so you can provide stability with the shocks without raising the backend?

By this statement, you do not want to add any spring rate enhancing devices (airbags, helpers, etc). Shocks will not raise your ride height at all loaded or empty (the pressure of high end shocks "might" raise the back of an empty truck a small fraction of an inch, for those that may pick apart my statement).

A new heavy duty set of shocks will help with dampening. A set of performance shocks like Fox 2.0s etc will help even more when loaded, but be overkill for daily driving if they're valved for a loaded truck.