Another question on winter traction

[buddyIam]

On the way to Mammoth during the 1980's I stopped to chain up on the way up Sherman Pass.. A jeep Cherokee speed past us. A 1/4 of a mile past us the Jeep took a near 90 degree left hand turn. crossed 4 lanes of road and a island and drove at least 30 feet up a incline of what may have been 45 degrees. (this was in a cutout made for the highway.)

The Jeep rolled down the embankment made an almost 180 degree reversal crossed the 4 lanes and island again and speed the same distance up the opposite embankment. It then rolled back down, facing in the right direction in almost the exact spot the accident began.

Is this just the result of the foot to the floor of a petrified driver? When we drove by them the driver was still sitting still in his seat.

Some have said it may have been the result of to much speed and a 4x4 without a locking front differential combined with patchy ice on the road. Their explanation is that one wheel began spinning at double speed while on ice. Then hit bare pavement. This makes sense also.


We were in a dually work truck with a lot of weight but the ice was patchy and bad. So we chained up.

[old_guy]

same thing happened on the way to Yuma last year. Boise Id had a ice storm and we were heading south and a chevy burb came up behind us and did a 360 and went right between to semi's going backwards. the passenger's eyes were as big as my hub caps.

[naturist]

Glad the driver wasn't sitting there bleeding to death . . . but does sound like overconfidence born of inexperience.

Many, many years ago, we lived at the foot of a bridge across a river at the bottom of a small valley. One morning it had been below freezing just long enough that the bridge (but not the road leading to it) was covered in a sheet of ice. We were awakened by somebody pounding on our door; they'd slid across the bridge and into the ditch, and needed assistance.

Went down to see what I could do, and watched helplessly as another car slid across the bridge and into the ditch on top of the first car.

Now this bridge was a long one, at least 1/4 mile. Before it warmed up, we took to serving hot coffee to the victims as car after car slid off the end of the bridge. Nobody was hurt, thank goodness, but the damages had to have been in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

I recall seeing one guy in particular fly down the hill, hit the bridge just as he noticed the carnage, and he jumped on the brakes with both feet, locked up all four, and pirouetted the entire length of the bridge, bashing one fender after another on the guard rails. Went in slow motion the entire length, and slid off the end onto the pile with everyone else. I'm sure his car was totaled by the insurance company.

Now mind you, only about half the people who crossed the bridge crashed. The half who made it intact did the smart thing, got off both the go and stop pedals, made no sudden moves, and just coasted across, and were fine.

[campingken]

After living at Lake Tahoe for several winters I learned a good rule for snow driving. Decide what you think is a safe speed then cut it in half.

[DaveF-250SD]

He was driving way too fast for conditions. Had he gone up the hill with the flow of traffic, he would not have spun out.

[P_Kennedy]

Locking front differentials were never OEM equipment for the very reason stated loss of steering control. People with extensive 4x4 driving experience generally are not the culprits of stupidity but with the availability of these vehicles and the abundance of them there is a large number of misinformed plus inexperienced operators. Winter driving starts with reading road conditions and most people nowadays are too distracted with anything but their driving.

[rhagfo]

DutchmenSport wrote:
There are just too many people that think "it" will never happen to them, that they are the exception, that the laws of physics don't apply to them. I don't call it an accident, I call it stupid!

Glad you took the time to do the right thing.

X2

4X4 can't fix stupid!

[tatest]

Too many people think the extra traction of 4x4 means they can drive as if it were dry pavement. Too much speed.

4x4 in most old Cherokees locked front and rear axles so they have to turn at the same speeds. Any difference in tire diameters from wear or pressure, one or more wheels will be slipping or trying to slip, to make up the difference. This is fine for loose surfaces, low speeds off road, what these 4x4 systems were designed to handle. It means maybe a little less control, one or more wheels a little loose, on slick surfaces. Again, better for getting traction at low speeds, than for cotrol in high speed driving.

More sophisticated 4x4, and AWD systems, have slippage in the transfer case, or a diiferential or torque splitter istead of a transfer case. Most now have stability assist systems, either managing torque, adjusting traction with throttle control and individual wheel braking. These are for slick road driving, standard or optional on most modern SUVs. But it still doesn't mean you can drive any speed you want on an icy road.

[DutchmenSport]

There are just too many people that think "it" will never happen to them, that they are the exception, that the laws of physics don't apply to them. I don't call it an accident, I call it stupid!

Glad you took the time to do the right thing.