Anyone towing with mild lift kit and larger tires?

[Danattherock]

Researching tow vehicle for first camper. Likely 3/4 ton longbed and 6.5-7k lb camper. We need good off road Performance for interests aside from camping so I researched this and talked with folks. Many had jacked up trucks with 37's and such.

But still, report good towing performance based on their feedback. I won't go to that extreme, but splitting middle of two vantage points if you will. Many say stock tires, and if you use off road tire or a lift kit, you will die. Which is ridiculous. The folks saying that are folks that have never towed with a lifted truck and bigger tires in my opinion.

Then again, I don't believe all that the young bucks propose either, jacked up 4-8" trucks with huge nobbies. They as a whole are buying this stuff for looks. I'm trying to factor in all opinions. That has me wanting custom wheels for wider rims, not just looks, to support 35x12.5x18 Cooper ST MAXX tires. Very good tow ratings on this tire as I can tell, but I'm new to this so research for yourself. Would value any feedback. Specs are on Cooper site.

A 2-4" suspension lift kit, and more commonly just a leveling kit is required to prevent any rubbing at full turn. I'm comfortable with either, but won't go beyond that due to possible handling issues, excessive raising of truck center of gravity, steering stabilizers often needed, compensatory stuff. But a mild suspension high quality lift or basic leveling kit with 35's I am feeling good about. This is based on a 3/4 ton truck. What's needed for clearance varies by make/model. Some get by with heavy duty front suspension or snow plow prep options.

The folks using ST MAXX I heard from are getting 40-50k per set, report low road noise, and good handling solo or towing. And great offroad performance of course, which is what motivates this compromise. I conceed it won't tow as well as a stock truck with highway tires. I just feel the degree to which this impacts towing is vastly overstated here, and elsewhere. We all have different needs, and highway tires won't be adequate for some of my interest.

18x9 or 18x10 wheels will avoid the marshmallo effect that many get when stuffing big tires on factory rims. This is a safety issue and would adversely effect towing performance in my opinion. I have no first hand knowledge and this could be a costly experiment. But I think that's unlikely. I'm willing to give the 35x12.5x18 a chance.

Would appreciate any feedback from folks actually towing with lifted trucks with bigger tires. I've read all the criticisms from folks about this from folks that only use stock ride height and tire sizes. If you have not towed with a lifted truck with bigger tires, you can't answer my question. Doesn't mean I don't appreciate and factor in that vantage point. But I'm in need of input from people actually towing with my intended lift and tire combo.


Dan

[Huntindog]

up2nogood wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

Danattherock wrote:



Regarding warranty, nothing I'm doing will void warranty.


Dan

Oh, it will void some of the warranty.
Larger tires WILL impart more stress on some components, such as the tranny, brakes, U joints steering components, etc. They will also lower the trucks ratings. How much is debatable, but it for sure will be operating in parameters beyond what it was designed for and tested for. Any component that the manufacturer thinks the larger tires may impart more stress on will likely have the warranty voided.
That said, there can be some things you may be able to do when buying the truck that can help.

When I bought my 96 Dodge 1 ton SRW, I wanted bigger tires. So I selected the optional 4.10 gears over the standard 3.55s. That simple cheap decision allowed me to use larger tires with the close to the same performance of the stock tires. It also protected the tranny and u joints from extra stress I did have premature service/replacement needed on the wheel bearings and brakes, which were adversely affected by the larger tires... Wanna play gotta pay.

As for leveling kits.. I am not really a fan of them for what you are wanting to accomplish. Since pickup trucks tend to be high in the rear when empty, leveling kits were invented to raise the front to match the rear. This works OK when empty. Put a load on the rear though and it will sag in the rear. Air bags can fix that, but it just shows how one mod can require the next etc. And my experience with air bag reliability has been less than I would expect. Seems like one is always leaking.

I also think that 35s are more than needed for 4x4 use. People who go that big are generally doing it for looks. The performance from larger tires starts to diminish after about 33" on full size trucks.

I have to disagree on warranty, I was in a Ram dealership yesterday , sitting on the showroom floor was a new Ram 2500 with at least a 4 inch lift on 35's , I doubt anyone would buy that truck without full warranty. I see those new trucks setup that way all the time, its a dealership thing.

I see it as well. I was even told by a dealer that anything that they installed, including tuners would be warranteed.
I did not buy from that dealer as I knew that he was LYING. The dealer doesn't warranty anything. In this case and in the OPs case (he stated that there were several lifted trucks on a GM dealers lot that he was looking at) it is GM that pays the warranty. Sure the dealer may tell you what he thinks you want to hear... But if he is willing to risk losing his dealership by lying and committing fraud to GM about a warranty claim... Then he will have no problem lying to you either.

And it is easier than ever before to get caught today. Ford puts black boxes in many (maybe all?) of their vehicles that record many things that can trip you up. GM has OnStar. It can tell GM just about anything they want to know.
When I first got my 2001 Chevy dually, a check engine light came on. I called Onstar. They did their diagnosis magic... Told me the fuel cap was loose.. They were right it was, and the light went out when I tightened it.

[BenK]

Funny memory you reminded me of...

Have been 'beat' twice by Power Wagons. Both GREEN and old as the hills to
me when I was in my twenties with my K5 & its 1 ton suspension

Once in Idaho's Panhandle close to my secret place by the Canadian border
Set up and out checking the area (fishing) and an old guy crossed our path.
He asked how we got in there and said my Brother in Law is Simplot's granddaughters BF
So I had the combo to the lock chain...I put tow more of my own later...

Bet him to a Butt2Butt pull...Loser cooks...

Ditto a few years later in the late 70's out at Pismo. Almost the same year
Power Wagon

Lost to both, but good natured and fun stuff out there

Later...remembered that both those guys had their shank turned upside down
so that they were pulling 'UP' on my shank...GADs...got taken by an old codger...

Both those guys LOVED my BBQ'd steaks...


myK5 my1973K5


mysuburban

[ShinerBock]

Danattherock wrote:
Please do tell me where I plan on taking the truck. I'm curious exactly what you know about my intended usage.

I don't know your usage and never said I did. What I did say is that a 2-4 inch lift on a truck offers no real benefit to its off road capabilities and actually hinders off road performance in many situations so the only logical reason one would get one is for looks and nothing more. All I am saying is don't say that is for better off road performance when it is not because if your main concern was off road performance then things like lockers, Deaver springs, disconnecting sway bars, or some form of suspension system to give you greater wheel travel would be discussed first long before a lift since those things actually improve off road capability unlike a lift.

Danattherock wrote:
You say you know where I'm willing to take a $40k truck?? How the hell is this possible? And I'm buying a $60k truck numb nuts.

I was just using 40K cause most crew cab trucks these days cost over 40K. If you are willing to get the body panels of this 60K truck you are buying dented in and scratched up then that is your own thing. If you are going to say that you will not be taking your 60k truck anywhere that there is a risk of any kind of body damage then I would have to ask why are you worried about off road performance if you are not going to be taking it where it matters and that just about any modern stock 4x4 truck these days can take you just about anywhere where there is no chance off body damage? I will not take my 65k truck through anything like that which is why I have my Jeep and a beater Toyota.

Danattherock wrote:
Your either psychic or a crayon eater, I vote the latter. You need to slow your roll this morning and have a big cup of STFU.

Nope, not a crayon eater. I never drank a nice tall glass of STFU either, and I don't think I will. Thanks for offering though!!!

Danattherock wrote:
My goal is to get a minimum lift/level that will allow the tire size I want and avoid rubbing. 35x12.5x18 won't fit stock without rubbing.

Actually 35x12s will fit on most new trucks with just a level and no lift without even coming close to rubbing. Although, as was said by someone else earlier, you don't need 35s for off roading in a truck so getting them is mainly for looks.

Danattherock wrote:
Never said I needed lift for better off road performance. You no reading SOB.

Oh I read you perfectly when you stated " We need good off road Performance for interests aside from camping". So if you want better off road performance and a lift takes away from off road performance (and you don't need one to fit 35s) then why would one get one? For show......

Danattherock wrote:
This forum is useless due to all the crayon eating MF's and blowhards like you. I have not seen a thread yet that wasn't destroyed by dip shits like you. 8-10 well intentioned intelligent folks start a conversation and then some cross eyed poop smearing dwarf chimes in fabricating BS that was never said to justify their rant somehow. It's pathetic.

Thanks for the kind words Dan. I really do appreciate it. Hey, when you get this lifted 60K truck, let me know cause I will invite you to one of my off road club events like the ones we take in Moab or in Hidden Falls in the link bellow......


Hill Country Crawlers off-road at Hidden Falls

[sh410]

Will the Airstream have enough ground clearance to match the mods to the TV?

[Danattherock]

Yep. And thank you. I use Staun deflators and will add on board Viar system to next truck. Got infant, toddler, and puppy German Shepherd so my 81' CJ with BDS and 33's sits in garage these days. But still need to drive on beach fishing in outer banks, get kayak trailer through make shift trails to lakes, and get my raft trailer to/from slippery river bank put ins in Smokies of Tenn. Not to mention setting up 50 bmg 1000 yard targets for competition practice, which has me driving through flood area on the private land my range is on. Value your input. Cutting is expected but not sure it will be enough.


Dan

[BenK]

Also consider cutting off portions of your wheel wells...

I've cut my Suburban's lower corner of the front wheel well to allow my 10" wide
alloys and no lift. Both leading and trailing corners

Want to some day go to 33's, but know will have to either cut more and/or
a small lift in the 2" range, but also know my street handling will suffer
from that higher CG

35's would be lovely, but also know my Sub is a whale out there and noodling
other options

Was thinking another K5 or FJ40, but they are expensive and for the cost
of an ATV, why bother?

Sounds like you, the OP, understood my comment of 'aired down and apparent
dia' for serious off roading...that folks with low aspect ratio
do not...

[Danattherock]

Please do tell me where I plan on taking the truck. I'm curious exactly what you know about my intended usage. You say you know where I'm willing to take a $40k truck?? How the hell is this possible? And I'm buying a $60k truck numb nuts. Your either psychic or a crayon eater, I vote the latter. You need to slow your roll this morning and have a big cup of STFU.

My goal is to get a minimum lift/level that will allow the tire size I want and avoid rubbing. 35x12.5x18 won't fit stock without rubbing. Never said I needed lift for better off road performance. You no reading SOB. And the Power Wagon is a POS and is not available in Mega Cab, which as I've stated many times is the only Ram I would consider.

This forum is useless due to all the crayon eating MF's and blowhards like you. I have not seen a thread yet that wasn't destroyed by dip shits like you. 8-10 well intentioned intelligent folks start a conversation and then some cross eyed poop smearing dwarf chimes in fabricating BS that was never said to justify their rant somehow. It's pathetic.


Dan

[ShinerBock]

Danattherock wrote:


Likely a high quality 2-4" suspension lift kit at most, not for looks, but clearance of the 35x12.5x18 (or 20") Cooper ST MAXX I want.

It is for looks because you don't need a 2-4 inch lift to fit 35 inch tires, and you don't need 35 inch tires to take you anywhere you are willing to take a 40K truck or make it have better off road performance ad was said earlier. The Power Wagon and Raptor don't have 35 inch tires and they can go more places than a truck with just a lift can because other upgraded parts on those trucks give them the off road performance they have, not a lift. A lift does little to nothing to aide off road performance and actually makes the truck worse off road in many cases. I am not saying not to get a lift since it is your truck. I am just saying don't piss on our leg and tell us it's raining by saying that it isn't for looks when it is.

[Danattherock]

Thanks guys. Great insights and I'm appreciative.

I really appreciate the earlier images! Picture worth a 1,000 words and all.

Lots to consider. As mentioned above, my local Chevy dealer has half dozen new 6-8" lifted trucks with 35x12.5x20's. My main interest is balancing, to the extent possible, towing performance with the off-road capability. Surely a modest middle ground can be found.

Likely a high quality 2-4" suspension lift kit at most, not for looks, but clearance of the 35x12.5x18 (or 20") Cooper ST MAXX I want. Heard great things from folks using these tires with jacked up trucks on 35's and 37's towing much heavier campers than I'm looking at. But I know know that is, Internet, unknown sources of info, etc.

Will continue to mull over it. But there are places I will go that stock tires won't work. I'm not buying a $60k truck and not being able to go where I want within reason. But there is much to consider I concede.

I have decided to get a Pro Pride WD hitch. I know we are buying 30' Airstream.


Everything else is less clear.:)


Dan
NC

[hawkeye-08]

I leave the lift discussion to the folks that know about them, my concern would be how much drop you will need on your hitch shank (aka stinger). When having a large drop (to keep trailer level), you increase the leverage that load has on the hitch and you will need to make sure everything is up to the task. I purchased a Torklift Super Magnum 30k receiver for my truck and am very pleased with the results. don't wimp out on the hitch/stinger/WDH area.

[BenK]

For those who might wish to understand/learn about what drive line and lifts/performance/etc
can do to ride quality (vibration, etc)

Shims are only okay to correct a misalignment, not as a standard without
measuring that there is a difference in Z-Angles between them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkfndHDiH1M
YouTube Fixing Pinion Angle Problems on your lifted truck


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ-m9ov3wYM
YouTube How2 Measure Calculate driveline angles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3gKCv2dwcI
YouTube Driveline Vibrations and Pinion Angles

[BenK]

The max or typical max Z angle is 35*...you should look to keep
that angle as small as possible

Both U-Joints should have the same Z angle and it is the rear that changes
during travel. Can not remember the tolerance, but it is tight (small)

DO NOT bite on the wedges that some lift companies have for the rear...that
corrects visually, but now the two U-Joints are no longer of the same Z angle

If a new drive shaft is being installed...make sure they are correctly
phased and square to the symmetrical center line of the shaft. The
jig they use to hold while welding must be kept in good working
order (alignment)

With increased Z Angles, the slip joint (spline) MUST be kept GREASED WELL

If your vehicle has a carrier bearing...lifting that will have
the short, splined drive shaft approaching that 35* max Z Angle

[Flashman]

My 2006 Megacab 2500 Manual tranny has 33 1/2 inch tires, 2 inch lift and I tow a 7000 lb TT. Have over 25,000 miles of towing in Az, Utah, Colo, Canada etc. - almost all mountains - usually with a Polaris RZR in the bed of the truck.

Never had a problem with power or stability.

[BenK]

The more you change the Z angle of any U-Joint, the sooner it will
wear out, the higher chances of vibrations during that faster wear
and the loss of power because of the higher Z angle

Larger tires...I love to fill the wheel wells and the apparent dia
when aired down...has some down sides too. More centrifugal weight,
therefore lower ride quality (not on my have to have list), larger
moment for the brakes to manage and harder on your joints

Of course higher CG and the rest of the suspension must be re-designed

Better would be body lift that has no change in the OEM Z angle

[cummins2014]

Huntindog wrote:

Danattherock wrote:



Regarding warranty, nothing I'm doing will void warranty.


Dan

Oh, it will void some of the warranty.
Larger tires WILL impart more stress on some components, such as the tranny, brakes, U joints steering components, etc. They will also lower the trucks ratings. How much is debatable, but it for sure will be operating in parameters beyond what it was designed for and tested for. Any component that the manufacturer thinks the larger tires may impart more stress on will likely have the warranty voided.
That said, there can be some things you may be able to do when buying the truck that can help.

When I bought my 96 Dodge 1 ton SRW, I wanted bigger tires. So I selected the optional 4.10 gears over the standard 3.55s. That simple cheap decision allowed me to use larger tires with the close to the same performance of the stock tires. It also protected the tranny and u joints from extra stress I did have premature service/replacement needed on the wheel bearings and brakes, which were adversely affected by the larger tires... Wanna play gotta pay.

As for leveling kits.. I am not really a fan of them for what you are wanting to accomplish. Since pickup trucks tend to be high in the rear when empty, leveling kits were invented to raise the front to match the rear. This works OK when empty. Put a load on the rear though and it will sag in the rear. Air bags can fix that, but it just shows how one mod can require the next etc. And my experience with air bag reliability has been less than I would expect. Seems like one is always leaking.

I also think that 35s are more than needed for 4x4 use. People who go that big are generally doing it for looks. The performance from larger tires starts to diminish after about 33" on full size trucks.

I have to disagree on warranty, I was in a Ram dealership yesterday , sitting on the showroom floor was a new Ram 2500 with at least a 4 inch lift on 35's , I doubt anyone would buy that truck without full warranty. I see those new trucks setup that way all the time, its a dealership thing.