Are Dually Extension Brackets Unsafe?

[bobbolotune]

When I thought I had it figured out, now this...

Everyone is saying to get the biggest truck you can. Because even if you don't need it now you may want to upgrade to a heavier truck camper in the future, or add a tow (which is my case, that I want the ability to add a tow in the future).

Which means a dually.

This is the decision that Truck Camper Magazine came to with for their new truck (within the past year I think), and the opinion expressed repeatedly in this forum.

Now someone told me, don't get a dually. And this wasn't just anyone. It someone with extensive truck camper industry experience. What he said:

They are a problem for fitting into parking spaces. This one I already knew and accepted.

Duallys are terrible on snow and ice. This I didn't know. I would assume with 4 rather than 2 tires on the ground that a dually would be that much better for snow and ice. Not so? Although I didn't tell him that I am planning on a 4x4 dually, and possibly that makes a difference.

Then the big one. You shouldn't camp in a truck camper with dually extension brackets. The extension is a hinge that swings in and out. It isn't stable. It is ok for storing the camper off the truck, but you shouldn't camp off the truck in a camper with dually brackets.

I hope those with actual experience can please express an opinion about these topics. About the snow / ice issue, and especially about the dually brackets.

Specifically the camper being discussed uses Happijac jacks and dually brackets. Possibly those are not the best jacks?

He said to get a 1 ton SRW. That a dually is unnecessary. That a 1 ton SRW has enough carrying capacity. But what I read is the next thing people with a SRW do is a $2,000 upgrade to 19.5 tires. Where the dually option is (if I recall) around $1,500. And (at least in the specs for the latest model trucks) you get more payload from a dually than a SRW. Also the recent thread people saying duallys drive better loaded with a camper. But if I can't camp off the truck with dually extension brackets that is a killer problem.

[deminimis]

When it comes to tires, I'd highly rec Duratrac for their snow prowess. We camp at our local ski resort during the season. Never once chained our former Dmax 3500 once I put Duratracs on there.

[brirene]

Just went through that last week. Pulled into the campground after dark, having driven the last 20 miles or so on a 2 lae, twisty foothill road. Too late and tired to set up, we got into the site, hooked up, went to bed without unhitching. Next morning went to unhitch, stepped up on the outside tire, no air in it whatsoever. Wouldn't even hold any air from the compressor. Turns out I had a puncture to the sidewall. Not sure when it happened, but the dually may have saved me from a real problem, or worse. Broke my own cardinal rule of being in camp before sunset.

[bobbolotune]

I was the OP for this topic last September. I did buy a dually. So I now have the dually truck and a camper with the swing out brackets.

The truck fits into a parking space, but you have to get it well centered to get both rear wheels between the lines. I look for 3 open spaces together and pull into the middle. Or if I can't find that 2 spaces and just take up 2 spaces. Some people may be able to park in a single space between cars but I don't want to attempt that. I don't mind parking in the back of the lot where it is less crowded and I can find at least 2 spaces together. I have yet to not be able to find a place to park it.

I have not yet experienced the dually on ice and snow. I did get 4x4 to hopefully help with that.

I can't see the comment someone made to me about dually extension brackets being unsafe which caused me to make the original post as being a valid comment. The brackets swing out only a short distance and are rock solid. The are well bolted on and kept in position with notches.

The good thing is that I can carry my lightweight camper (maybe 3,500 wet and loaded) without any suspension enhancements or upgrading tires. I am convinced that I made the correct decision to get a dually. The option was only $1,200 when ordering the truck. A forum topic by someone who got a rear wheel blow out with SRW (who from the experience was expressing a strong opinion about duallys for safety) was the clincher to want the extra tires.

[deltabravo]

I have been daily driving my dually since May. I've had it since 2009. When driving it empty, I always park out in the back forty of the parking lot, so space around me has never been an issue.

Dually trucks - the rear tires track differently than the front. At least on mine they do. The inside rear tire appears to track differently than the front. It will get a little squirrely in slush.
I've only driven it in bad road conditions twice. I will have a different rig for driving this winter.

I have never heard anyone say "swingout brackets are unsafe"

For me, a dually was a now brainer, because I didn't want to end up having to get a bigger truck down the road.

[deminimis]

54suds wrote:
happi jac brackets should have gussets welded to the face each plate
I have seen at least 4 campers who's swing out brackets bent to dangerous angles .

Make that 5.

[Reddog1]

bobbolotune wrote:

Reddog1 wrote:
Side winds and semis will still push you around, but not as much. You may find that a sway bar will really help, and not all trucks have them from the factory. If you have to buy one, get the largest diameter bar you can.

Sway bar. Yet another accessory that I wasn't aware of. I will have to pay attention whether the truck includes it. Thank you for alerting me about this.

I have heard of sway bars before but thought they were more for trailers. Didn't realize it was also something for a truck camper.

The sway bars for cars and trucks are very different than for trailers. They pretty much have the same function, but designed totally different. I am not aware of any automobile or truck that does not come from the factory with a sway bar in the front. Many have a sway bar in the rear also.

Good reads:

Hellwig Products Sway Bar Install and Review

Hellwig Products

[finsruskw]

If the dual wheels are going to be such a problem in the winter, take the 2 outside wheels off!

Looks really goofy, but will the eliminate the dually phobia!!

[Bedlam]

Sorry, I have four 4x8x12 blocks of wood. I use them to level the truck when the camper stays on, level the ground under the jacks when the camper comes off, and block the underside of the camper when it is lowered.

Typically I put two blocks on the front corners at 45 degrees while sitting the 12" end on the ground. 8" height is all I need to take a little weight off the front jacks and eliminate wobble on my Arctic Fox.

[bobbolotune]

Reddog1 wrote:
I am impressed with what you have picked up. I think you will do well, with a minimum of surprises.

Thanks. I hope so!

I tell you, the learning curve here is huge. For someone (myself) who has no RV experience, no truck experience, no truck camper experience. There are so many topics. Especially including the extra challenges for a truck camper with the do it yourself putting together the truck and camper.

For the past 6 - 8 months I have been reading forums (rv.net, facebook, manufacturer specific forums), watching YouTube videos (Chris Travels and many others), read one book (RV Vacations For Dummies, which is actually a very good introduction book). And Truck Camper Magazine is a tremendous resource.

I have lists of topics and accessories. When I finish I could probably turn my notes into a book.

Reddog1 wrote:
Side winds and semis will still push you around, but not as much. You may find that a sway bar will really help, and not all trucks have them from the factory. If you have to buy one, get the largest diameter bar you can.

Sway bar. Yet another accessory that I wasn't aware of. I will have to pay attention whether the truck includes it. Thank you for alerting me about this.

I have heard of sway bars before but thought they were more for trailers. Didn't realize it was also something for a truck camper.

[bobbolotune]

Bedlam wrote:
If you set up your counter and dinette with items you frequently use, everything has to be stowed before driving off. If we are staying somewhere more than a couple of nights and need the truck to get around, it works better for us to unload. If the truck is going nowhere, there is no reason to unload.

Stacking stabilizer jack stands will fit in the front corners of the truck bed if you load them before the camper. Most campers do not leave enough gap when loaded to access these pockets. I use 4x6 blocking instead of jacks since they serve more than one purpose.

Thanks. Good point about having to stow the inside as well as hookups. I didn't think about that. So this is another advantage of a truck camper or trailer rather than a Class A or Class C (and another reason why people with an A or C tow cars).

Sure, if you are staying a while I can see it is better to unload.

When you say 4x6 blocking. Do you mean that you can lower the camper to 6" from the ground so it is sitting on the block? If so, that sounds very easy and very stable, but I would be surprised if the camper can be that low to the ground.

Also, are you talking about a 4x6 piece of wood, or maybe a cinder block, or maybe some accessory specifically made for blocking?

What other purpose do you use the 4x6 blocking for?

[Reddog1]

mkirsch - I guess I did miss it. I guess if you are going to drive your DRW in the snow as a daily driver, it is to your advantage to leave your TC loaded.


jimh425 - I have been on this Forum so many years I am not sure what is normal. It certainly contains more that just discussions on dually brackets, but the OP has included other subjects.

Wayne

[jimh406]

I'm so happy that this thread is continuing regarding dually brackets. At least, it's better than a normal DRW vs SRW thread. 😉

[mkirsch]

Reddog1 wrote:
I see deully snow plows and sand trucks, and I have ask why is that if the duelly is so bad in snow and ice. I do not recall ever getting an answer.

You did get an answer, but you missed it.

The simple answer is: WEIGHT. A 10-wheeler loaded with salt and sand has excellent traction on ice due to the weight over the drive wheels. PLUS, it has a plow on the front that is pushing the snow out of the way. It is not trying to drive through the snow.

It's totally different from an empty pickup truck.

That said, don't go thinking that snow plows get such great traction on the snow and ice. When that salt runs out, they're in world of hurt if the route back to the salt barn hasn't been opened up yet. Believe it or not most snow plows are not all wheel drive. Most are normal 10-wheelers.

[Reddog1]

I am impressed with what you have picked up. I think you will do well, with a minimum of surprises.

bobbolotune wrote:
... The talk about that with a dually the wind or a passing semi doesn't push you around. That is what pushes my decision to want a dually as the priority over parking and snow/ice.

Side winds and semis will still push you around, but not as much. You may find that a sway bar will really help, and not all trucks have them from the factory. If you have to buy one, get the largest diameter bar you can.

bobbolotune wrote:
In more detail, specifically my original question was about using the truck without the camper for my daily drive including in the winter (with the camper off the truck, since I don't plan to winter camp). The response was that you are not going to rule the road with a dually, but especially with 4x4 you will get by.

I see deully snow plows and sand trucks, and I have ask why is that if the duelly is so bad in snow and ice. I do not recall ever getting an answer.

bobbolotune wrote:
This surprises me in all the discussion I have read it never came up before that this is another reason to want a 4x4. Truck Camper Magazine did a reader survey about 4x4 where the majority opinion was yes for 4x4 being desirable (because there will someday be a time when you are very glad you have it). But I now realize that discussion was all about (summer) camping. Now this is another reason for 4x4 that it helps if you want to use the truck as a daily drive in the winter.

I think that is an individual thing. A lot has to do with where you live. I have had my 1996 2WD truck for about 10 years. I have never needed 4x4. I recently purchased a 4x4 DRW, but that is not why I bought it, I really do not need either feature.

bobbolotune wrote:
Multiple people said they have extensive experience with duallys on snow and it is workable. My conclusion is to not let concern about snow and ice talk me out of a dually.

Must be doable, sure are lots of them on the road, including in snow removal equipment.

bobbolotune wrote:
As far as dually brackets, the short answer was don't worry it. You may get more wobble with dually brackets, but people do camp off the truck with dually brackets. Torklift Wobble Stops will help, or as one person said "old fashioned blocking".

My preference is to not use my TC when it is off the truck. When I store it at home, I sit it on sawhorses. I presently have a Stable Lift, and it is very stable without sawhorses. Before the lift, I had hydraulic jacks with the bracket extenders, even though my truck was SRW. The brackets did increase the wobble. However, it was only a serious issue loading or unloading in windy conditions.

bobbolotune wrote:
There were several stories intermixed in the responses about failed brackets and brackets separating (whether it is the bracket itself or the connection to the camper, for example 54suds "I have seen at least 4 campers who's swing out brackets bent to dangerous angles"). I would think the laws of physics say that the further the jack is from the camper the more stress there will be on brackets (same as the longer the tow extension the more tongue weight on the hitch).

I have owned several TCs since 1972. I have been camping longer than that. What I have seen in jack failure is the mounting screws pulling out of the wood. The mounting extensions are very stout, and I can't imagine them failing by themselves. Certainly possible. The jack mounts are shaped like a piece of angle iron, and depend on the shear to carry the load of the TC. I have never understood why a plate is not across the bottom, which allows the place/mounts to lift the TC. The bolts would then only hold the mount to the side of the TC, and have no shear. I have repaired many mounts using this method.

bobbolotune wrote:
It doesn't sound hard to take some extra care and jack the floor. I am thinking when I get the 3/4" horse mat for the truck bed mat that I will save some pieces to glue onto boards for the jacking. That cushion would be good to protect the underside of the camper and give some stress cushion.

I suggest the horse mat go at least 1-inch or more outside the TC floor. This provides support for the side framing of the TC. I have used the mats before, and think they are great.

bobbolotune wrote:
Then the next question is where to store the jacks when the camper is loaded? Possibly the jacks and boards will fit into the truck bed between the wheel well and cab (I don't know if that is possible, maybe someone knows the answer to this).

It depends on the side rails of the truck and side wings of the TC. When I loaded my TC, the TC side wings and truck side rails only had 1-inch clearance. I put 4x4's under the TC. That allows me to use the area for storage. Newer TCs may provide more clearance.

bobbolotune wrote:
So it seems floor jacks and Wobble Stops are two solutions to wobble, and both will reduce stress on the camper jack brackets. But I would think jacking will reduce more stress than Wobble Stops. It is carrying the Wobble Stops vs carrying the jacks. The Wobble Stops are probably easier to set up (and have the anti-theft feature), but if jacks have the added advantage of reducing more stress on the camper jack brackets that is a tradeoff.

I have never used the Wobble Stops, but I think you you have it figured out.They also reduce or eliminate movement in the TC when used off the truck.

bobbolotune wrote:
I have a lot of other learning curve here. I could defer the whole topic by at first just leaving the camper loaded on the truck. Get through the other learning curve topics in my early camping (remember that I have zero truck camping experience), then work on wobble, jacks and blocking later.

Most of what has been discussed here depends on your camping style, camping preferences, and comfort level. Using your truck as a Daily driver will also influence your choices.

bobbolotune wrote:
For me, I am looking towards a lightweight non-slide long bed with minimal overhand camper on a dually. With that rig the camper will be about the same width as truck, and the rig will be only slightly longer with the camper on the truck.

My TC is 11.5 feet. The only restrictions I have is towing a trailer. I do flat tow (no tongue weight) my Samurai (4x4), and have been known to load it down. If I were to tow a trailer or boat, I would probably have to add about $2000 in hitch related stuff.

bobbolotune wrote:
I don't see what the advantage will be of unloading the camper. With the rig I am going towards parking won't be easier with the camper offloaded. I suppose less weight to carry for local drives, but the difference in gas cost couldn't be much for limited miles local driving. I suppose to avoid unhooking the electric and water to drive into town, and maybe having to level again when get back to the campground. But is that worth the trouble to unload the camper? This is an opinion I have heard before that this is an advantage of a non-slide lightweight camper (if you are willing to live in a smaller camper, which I am) that then you can leave it on the truck. Experience will tell. And this is a question. I am changing the subject asking for opinions about why people want to unload the camper.

Your thought on this subject is what I practice. It is so seldom I unload my TC when camping I don't remember when I have. I do typically tow my Samurai and use it for site seeing, especially if I am going to San Francisco. I see many people really spread out when they camp. I do not. I keep stuff pretty much in their storage place unless I am using it. Outside chairs is about the only thing I have out. There are exceptions.

[Bedlam]

If you set up your counter and dinette with items you frequently use, everything has to be stowed before driving off. If we are staying somewhere more than a couple of nights and need the truck to get around, it works better for us to unload. If the truck is going nowhere, there is no reason to unload.

Stacking stabilizer jack stands will fit in the front corners of the truck bed if you load them before the camper. Most campers do not leave enough gap when loaded to access these pockets. I use 4x6 blocking instead of jacks since they serve more than one purpose.