CAFE stds on the chopping block

[agesilaus]

NYT

Good riddance. There is no way that the average fleet mileage would ever come close to those numbers anyway. Hopefully the ethanol scam will be cut at the same time.

[Fordlover]

troubledwaters wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:
The only problem I can think of by moving the goal post closer is the companies who've invested substantial money to be in line the new standard are ultimately penalized where as the companies who did very little will benefit the most.

Any manufacturer that can develop a car that can get 54 mpg is going to sell ton of them.

Not if it costs 280K each, even if it resembles something that people actually want to buy.

[troubledwaters]

never mind - comment deleted

[John___Angela]

Wild Card wrote:

Me Again wrote:

troubledwaters wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:
The only problem I can think of by moving the goal post closer is the companies who've invested substantial money to be in line the new standard are ultimately penalized where as the companies who did very little will benefit the most.

Any manufacturer that can develop a car that can get 54 mpg is going to sell ton of them.

Yeah, but the oil companies bought that carburetor from that guy that designed and built it in his garage in the early 60's or was in the 70's. No wait maybe it was in the late 50's. At any rate it was buy him out or put a hit on him. 😉 😉 😉

VW did, and had to buy them all back

😉

[travelnutz]

Quote from this thread post:


"Just about in all areas of the country I have been in, they all have that brown line across the horizon."

Apparently, you have never been in the western half Michigan as it never has had any "brown line across the horizon". 1.5 million people live just in the small local area from Grand Rapids area west to the Lake Michigan coastline and there's no smog ever. We have lived there for just over 75 years now and know! Also no smog ever in the Northern Lower Peninsula of the state nor the entire Upper Peninsula. Only a little smog is ever seen on the east side of the state, IE the Detroit S.E. Michigan area with 5.5 million people living and havng gobs of big industry.

Just have to know where to live as there are so many areas and regions in the USA with none or almost no smog or polluted air of concern or that exists! One chooses where they will actually live or visit also!

We have been RV'ing a lot for 52 years now and in every one of the 50 except Hawaii as we had to take that polluting aluminum thingy always to get there and back. Also all but 3 Provinces of Canada as Canada is our northern and eastern border neighbor from Michigan.

[Wild_Card]

Me Again wrote:

troubledwaters wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:
The only problem I can think of by moving the goal post closer is the companies who've invested substantial money to be in line the new standard are ultimately penalized where as the companies who did very little will benefit the most.

Any manufacturer that can develop a car that can get 54 mpg is going to sell ton of them.

Yeah, but the oil companies bought that carburetor from that guy that designed and built it in his garage in the early 60's or was in the 70's. No wait maybe it was in the late 50's. At any rate it was buy him out or put a hit on him. 😉 😉 😉

VW did, and had to buy them all back

[John___Angela]

FishOnOne wrote:

troubledwaters wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:
The only problem I can think of by moving the goal post closer is the companies who've invested substantial money to be in line the new standard are ultimately penalized where as the companies who did very little will benefit the most.

Any manufacturer that can develop a car that can get 54 mpg is going to sell ton of them.

That really depends on several attributes (i.e. Cost, size, complexity)

This is kinda where the Electric car fits into the picture. Manufacturers are already building cars that get the equivalent of twice that number. The trade off is autonomy (gas and diesel vehicles are good for that) and up front price. In that regard the equivalent EV is still about 10 to 15 percent more for the same vehicle as an EV. BUT that difference is dropping every year and I suspect EV's will be cheaper than gassers within a few years.

As far as economy goes, it kinda depends on the price of fuel in a country on what the equivalent "mpg". Eg. Using American currency and measurements (OP was American) here in Canada we are paying pretty close to 3.10 USD per US GALLON. (1.09 Can per litre). Obviously the savings are greater using an electric vehicle here than in the US. Still, we saw lots of places on the trip home thru the west coast states where the price was not too far off that. In practical terms a costco run for us is 110 KM round trip. (70 miles) It costs us about 2.10 Canadian to make that trip in our electric vehicle. Our old Buick would have made that same trip for around 9 to 10 dollars. Substantial savings. Plus a vehicle with very little maintenance. After two years we are still on our first jug of washer fluid for our two EVs so yah, cheap.

Obviously EV's are not suitable for everyone's needs but to achieve these high numbers of "mileage" or equivalent, manufacturers can certainly use EV's to help achieve their fleet averages.

JMHO.

John

[troubledwaters]

FishOnOne wrote:

troubledwaters wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:
The only problem I can think of by moving the goal post closer is the companies who've invested substantial money to be in line the new standard are ultimately penalized where as the companies who did very little will benefit the most.

Any manufacturer that can develop a car that can get 54 mpg is going to sell ton of them.

That really depends on several attributes (i.e. Cost, size, complexity)

Which is exactly why the CAFE standards were too over zealous and needed to change; cost, size and complexity.

[agesilaus]

I heard a talk by a automotive engineer. They could build a car that gets a 100 mpg. It would hold one person, have solid rubber tires, the engine would be about 0.5 L. It would have no accessories, no ac ect. In fact you can see what it would look like. This one actually gets 2500 mpg: the winner

Probably won't sell a lot to soccer moms.

[FishOnOne]

troubledwaters wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:
The only problem I can think of by moving the goal post closer is the companies who've invested substantial money to be in line the new standard are ultimately penalized where as the companies who did very little will benefit the most.

Any manufacturer that can develop a car that can get 54 mpg is going to sell ton of them.

That really depends on several attributes (i.e. Cost, size, complexity)

[Me_Again]

troubledwaters wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:
The only problem I can think of by moving the goal post closer is the companies who've invested substantial money to be in line the new standard are ultimately penalized where as the companies who did very little will benefit the most.

Any manufacturer that can develop a car that can get 54 mpg is going to sell ton of them.

Yeah, but the oil companies bought that carburetor from that guy that designed and built it in his garage in the early 60's or was in the 70's. No wait maybe it was in the late 50's. At any rate it was buy him out or put a hit on him. 😉 😉 😉

[troubledwaters]

FishOnOne wrote:
The only problem I can think of by moving the goal post closer is the companies who've invested substantial money to be in line the new standard are ultimately penalized where as the companies who did very little will benefit the most.

Any manufacturer that can develop a car that can get 54 mpg is going to sell ton of them.

[lbrjet]

That 54 mpg was just politics anyway. No matter who is in office it would have been rolled back eventually.

[patriotgrunt]

FishOnOne wrote:
The only problem I can think of by moving the goal post closer is the companies who've invested substantial money to be in line the new standard are ultimately penalized where as the companies who did very little will benefit the most.

This is certainly true in the near term but I bet the manufacturers hedge their bets. Who knows who'll be president in four years and a possible democratic administration will ratchet back up the standards.

[FishOnOne]

The only problem I can think of by moving the goal post closer is the companies who've invested substantial money to be in line the new standard are ultimately penalized where as the companies who did very little will benefit the most.

[agesilaus]

thomasmnile wrote:
FWIW, the proposal on CAFE is only to roll back the compliance requirement for 54 mpg average by 2025. Not a wholesale repeal of the the standards.

Quite right I didn't mean to imply otherwise