Can't stop sway

[cordellm]

I am relatively new to camping as my wife and I just bought our first camper this spring. We bought a Jayco Jayflight 287BHSW. I am pulling it with a 2016 F150 Super Crew with 5.5' box. I am using an Eaz-Lift weight distribution hitch, 1000 lbs spring bars with one friction sway control bar. I am very use to pulling large trailers, but a 24' enclosed trailer was the largest wall behind a pickup I've towed till now.

On my first trip out I left everything as the dealer had set up for me. I had a 60 mile trip on a 65 mph road and everything was great for the first 30 miles. I started to get into some rolling hills with a 10-15 mph tail/cross wind and I began to get enough sway in the trailer that I was very uncomfortable. I managed to maintain that speed to my destination but it was white knuckle.

I read some forums and thought I maybe didn't have enough tongue weight so for the return trip home I filled my fresh water tank (located right infront of the front axle.) The drive home (no wind) was great, no issues.

My second trip out the following weekend was on the exact same route. I don't remember the wind situation, but I had really no issues. The return trip home I was driving into mostly a 25 mph head wind with the occasional cross wind. I was barely able to even go 55 and had to drop to 45 most of the time to even maintain control as the sway was so uncomfortable.

Since then I have been doing everything I can think of to correct this. I took the entire rig to the scale and I have 860 lbs of tongue weight without being full of water. I make inflated the rear tires of my pickup. I lowered the ball on the hitch one hole to get a very minimal drop in the front of the camper. I tilted the head unit of the hitch to take a little pressure off the distribution bars and to allow the front axle of the pickup to lift slightly per Fords recommendations in the owners manual. I went for a test drive yesterday in a 10 mph wind and very minimal uses, little enough I could live with. Today I tried it again as the wind was 20 mph and once I got to 60 I couldn't maintain that speed as the sway was too nerve racking.

What am I missing or what suggestions do you have at this point?

[goducks10]

hohenwald48 wrote:

cordellm wrote:
I am on the very first chain link on my spring bars and I cannot to the hitch head back any further our I will not get the chains to reach the hooks on the tongue.

This sounds strange as I thought you should have about 3 free hanging chain links. A picture would sure help.

Are you using the tongue jack to raise the back of the truck (way up) before attempting to attach the chains? Some folks have to raise the back of the truck almost off the ground to get the bars connected.

My previous TT was like that. It had the coupler mounted on the bottom of the A frame. Using 6 washers and in order for the spring bars to be parallel to the tongue I used the last link. I could get the 2nd to last link if I really cranked the tongue up and reefed on the pry bar. Didn't notice enough difference in the way it towed so I used the last link.
Couplers that are mounted on the top of the tongue bring the spring bars closer to the tongue when parallel so you naturally would have 3 links or so hanging.

[Ozlander]

What TNrob said. Raise it up til it's easy to connect the chains.
Same then you disconnect.

[TomG2]

cordellm wrote:
...snip.... I took the entire rig to the scale and I have 860 lbs of tongue weight without being full of water. ....snip.....

I may have missed them, but what were all the scale weights for the combination? What is your payload according to the yellow sticker on your door frame?

[hohenwald48]

cordellm wrote:
I am on the very first chain link on my spring bars and I cannot to the hitch head back any further our I will not get the chains to reach the hooks on the tongue.

This sounds strange as I thought you should have about 3 free hanging chain links. A picture would sure help.

Are you using the tongue jack to raise the back of the truck (way up) before attempting to attach the chains? Some folks have to raise the back of the truck almost off the ground to get the bars connected.

[TNrob]

cordellm, as a point of reference, with the trailer hooked up I have to jack my truck bumper up by THREE inches in order to attach the chains to the snap hooks. As it sits, with no load, the hitch height to top of draw bar is 26". With trailer hooked up, no WD bars attached, it squats to 24". I have to jack it up to 27" in order to catch link number 7 leaving 2 links dangling. When I lower the rig and raise the jack to trvel position the top of draw bar is at 25 7/8"--down an 1/8" from unloaded height.

Yours will differ, certainly, but that might help you have an idea what to expect.

[IDoMyOwnStunts]

Sounds like you have it. A photo would help. If you have the front restored to it's proper height, you probably don't need to go above 1000 lb bars.

Concerning your tank, looking at your floor plan, I'll bet your freshwater tank is pretty close to your axles and the tongue weight added by a full tank is minimal. If you are worried about it, calculate it by taking the distance from your tank to the axles, dividing by the distance of the tongue to your axles, and multiplying that by the weight of your full tank. That'll give you a good estimate.

The only thing I would add is that even with the correct setup, the wind is going to push you. That's not necessarily sway. Sway can happen even without wind. You are pulling a tall box with a lot of surface area. If a wind gust pushes you and your trailer together or if your trailer returns to track afterward, then it was just the wind. That doesn't mean it's any less of a disconcerting feeling. When it's windy, you have a few options:

1. Slow down.
2. Get off the highway and travel the back roads instead.
3. Pull off the road and wait it out. I know this isn't always an option.
4. Add some weight (i.e. fill your tank) to lower your center of gravity.

After getting a some miles towing your rig, you'll learn what's normal and what isn't. It's good that you are concerned with getting your set up correct. Good luck and let us know how your camping trip goes.

[cordellm]

Thought I would update everyone. Tonight I spent hours making adjustments and corrections as advised by most of you. One thing I can say is the majority of the advise and links on setting the hitch were consistent.

I made sure all tires on the TV were asked constant with the same pressure. I started on a level surface and took all measurements of the TV and leveled the camper. Then filled my TV with normal gear I take with. I then set ball height as close as I could according to the hitch manual (I was too low by a setting so I had to come up). I then hooked up to check my angle of the spring bars, I was by far not getting enough pressure on the during bars. I unhooked, adjusted the hitch head angling it away from the TV, rehooked and measured my front axle height and how level the trailer was. I repeated this 7 or 8 times before I final got the front axle to come back down to where I started and got the trailer almost level ( it is slightly lower in the front). I am on the very first chain link on my spring bars and I cannot to the hitch head back any further our I will not get the chains to reach the hooks on the tongue.

By the time I got all this finished I was down to a 5 mph winds, but went for a test drive anyway. I didn't have any issues other than a very small trail wag on the last couple miles coming home. Still not sure how much it really was as I was being very observant of anything going on as I was on pretty high alert trying to see/feel what was going on.

I ordered a second sway control bar to add to the driver's side just because of the size of my TT. I will install this on Wednesday or Thursday night as we're leaving town Friday morning for the weekend.

The place we're going has a local scale and I personally know the manager so I will be rescaling the whole rig then.

Right now my only questions are with tongue weight of 860 (previous scale weight and assuming this hasn't changed) and spring bars at 1000 that are tipped as far back as they can add still get them hooked up, do I need heavier spring bars? I have no fresh water on board now and if I do put it on I'm assuming this is going to add a minimum of 140 to the tongue weight.

Have I missed anything to check or do at this point?

[IDoMyOwnStunts]

cordellm wrote:


I'm told the spring bars should be level when hooked up. I do not have enough chain on my spring bars to reach the hooks on the tongue when level, I have to tilt the hitch head up in order to hook up and this leaves the spring bars angled up slightly, is this ok?

Wait, what? Am I understanding that correctly? You tilted the head up as in toward the truck? If that's the case, then that might be where your problem is. It sounds like you might be going the wrong direction.

I have an Eaz-lift. I did not tilt the head up (like this --\_), I tilted it down (like this --/_), away from the truck, by adding washers to the top adjustment bolt then tightening the bottom bolt. Then I just jack up the tongue with it attached to the ball so that it also jacks up the rear end of the truck in order to attach the chains to the pop-up hooks. This allows me to have the proper level on the bars, enough chain between the bars and the hooks (usually about 4-5 links leaving 1 to 3 links dangling) and enough tension to restore weight to the front of my truck. Once the bars are hooked on the proper chain link and locked in place, I just jack it back down. You can add more spacer washers to the upper bolt to get more tension on the bars. It may take a couple of tries with the washers which means, unfortunately, loosening and retightening the hitch head. My dealer stupidly didn't even put washers on my hitch head adjustment screw, so I had to go and buy some washers.

Anyway, try more tilt in the direction toward your trailer and get more tension on the bars. You can use up to 8 washers if you need.

If you were already going the right direction and I read that wrong, then disregard.

A note on the friction sway bar: it is recommended by Eaz lift to have 2 bars on trailers over 5k. I have 2 on mine. Make sure if you order one for the other side you get a left handed one, or it will be upside down when you install it. Make sure you adjust the tension on the friction sway bar using the bottom bolt. The handle is only used to crank down to engage or disengage the sway bar. Too loose on the bottom bolt and you'll only be engaging a part of your sway bar and it won't be as effective.

Good luck!

[TomG2]

hohenwald48 wrote:
...snip.....
I'm not even sure I would listen to some of the information provided by the truck manufacturers (provided the statements on here that are attributed to them are accurate). I can see no logical reason why it would not be a good idea to restore as much TV front axle weight as possible. If the truck manufacturer doesn't think the truck needs as much front axle weight as the truck was designed to carry then why did they design it that way?

Perhaps they recognize that pickups are inherently front end heavy? That's where they put the engine. The owner's manuals for current models are readily available. With today's litigious society, I find it hard to believe that they would change their recommendations without good legal and engineering reasons.

[Huntindog]

RedRocket204 wrote:

myredracer wrote:
One thing that could help is if you post some photos - at least a couple of close ups of hitch and at least a couple from a distance with both TT & TV.

That TT is long at 33'-5" and heavy at 7500 lbs GVWR and could possibly be pushing the truck to it's limits unless you have the right options. A truck with a longer wheelbase would have been better for that length of trailer.

Relying on a dealer's WDH setup is not a good idea. Never trust them. They may not even have the bolts/nuts torqued properly. Did they measure the before and after front fender height? Even if they did, it would have been for an unloaded trailer and truck and when you are fully loaded the setup can change a fair bit. How much weight is restored back onto the steer axle? I thought newer Ford manuals say to restore approx. 50 percent (less than older trucks). How many chain links are under tension? You should aim for 5 links and if that transfers too much or too little weight, adjust the hitch head angle as needed. Less than 5 links may cause binding in turns. Getting a WDH set up correctly sometimes can take a lot trial and error tweaking of various things. Took me a whole season of fiddling last year to get it right, including playing with truck tire pressure, and I ended up having to get a ball with a 1" rise to get the TT to sit where it needed to be.

How much does the TT scale fully loaded for camping - is it 6900 lbs based on your 12.5 percent TW? Did you weigh the truck and subtract that from it's GVWR to get the available payload capacity? Actual payload capacity can sometimes vary a lot from the sticker number. Did you calculate the weights being transferred onto the steer and trailer axles? How much does the truck squat when you're hooked up?

It could be a combination or things, but I would say one thing that stands out is the truck's tires. If they're P rated, I would upgrade to LTs. I run our Michelin LT LRE tires at 75 psi front & 80 rear. Much less than that and it doesn't feel right. I would highly recommend some good heavy duty shocks on the truck like Bilstein. Shocks on the TT would help but that's not a simple or inexpensive bolt-on and go install. I would look at upgrading the WDH to something like a Blu Ox or Reese dual cam. We have the Reese DC hitch and it works great for us but it is not for everyone. I don't know how the two compare for sway control but I really like the proactive design of the Reese and the way it makes the truck and trailer almost snap back into line. Add the 2nd sway bar. However, it might just be at the end of the day, you need a bigger truck. We upgraded from an F150 to F250 and it is a huge improvement in towing.

Lots of good information here. Also, read the Ron Gratz link posted earlier and also, go through this thread on proper WDH set-up, similar to that other link on WDH set-up: Travel Trailer Hitch Set-up Procedure


I'm going to also disagree with those saying to add a 2nd sway control friction bar... not that one shouldn't be added but it is shocking to me about just adding the bar without first addressing the WDH set-up and sway issues you are experiencing. Adding a friction bar to a bad set-up is not fixing the issue! Sway control should be on a well functioning TT set-up where the tow is already good and sway control is there in the event an outside force causes an issue where sway control is needed.

Do yourself a favor and learn about WDH hows and whys and then work through the process of fine tuning your specific set-up. That means fine tuning with a properly loaded trailer and trying to achieve side to side load balance along with 10%-15% tongue weight siding on more tongue weight for helping to fine tune and correct bad towing manners.

I don't think anyone recommended a second sway control is advising it as a bandaid for a poor setup.

I know I wasn't. Said so in my post. Yes he needs to get the setup right.
But that TT is well beyond the capability of a single sway control... So he needs another one.

I will not go so far as to recomend that he scrap the entire hitch for an integrated model though.
My reasoning is that from the questions he is asking, I am not sure he is ready yet.
The integreted hitchs are a lot more dependant on proper setup than the friction sway control models. With these, one can miss the setup by quite a bit and still get some benefit from the friction control... Yes I know that is using it as a bandaid... But I would rather that while he learns than make the jump before he is ready.

This is NOT meant as a slam to the OP. Most of us learned this stuff one piece at a time. And the OP can too. He at least is asking questions. That is the first step in the journey

Right now, he needs to learn the ins and outs of proper setup, while being as safe as possible.

[hohenwald48]

I agree with redrocket and apt. Learn the theory behind the operation and proper setup of a WDH. There's plenty of info available on the internet. It sounds like your system was never setup correctly and now you are trying to address the symptoms created by poor setup.

It seems that most (possibly not all but I'm not sure) dealer service and deliver departments are basically incompetent. Some of the stories I've heard and things I've witnessed are unbelievable. I guess they just want you off the lot as soon as possible after the sale. It seems the average "RV tech" of today is simply not qualified to be working on RV's.

I'm not even sure I would listen to some of the information provided by the truck manufacturers (provided the statements on here that are attributed to them are accurate). I can see no logical reason why it would not be a good idea to restore as much TV front axle weight as possible. If the truck manufacturer doesn't think the truck needs as much front axle weight as the truck was designed to carry then why did they design it that way?

[TomG2]

Both Ford and GM now require less front axle replacement on most of their pickups. Both also recommend using a tow vehicle with adequate capacity. Get the weights and measurements before throwing money at the problem. After towing everything from construction trailers to travel trailers, the only time I encountered real sway was when I was overloaded in some manner. Throw a thousand pound backhoe bucket in the back of an El Camino if you want to experience sway.

[APT]

Spend $15 at a CAT scale. Get 3 passes to determine what your actual TW is and how well your WDH is adjusted. Ron's post linked above is a great place to start. While Ford recommends only restoring a quarter of lost tongue weight to the front axle, I think you will notice an increase in stability with 3/4 to all of lost front axle weight restored.

Most people find this method to hitching up with WD bars easier, often by hand instead of the cheater bar.

Lower tongue on ball
Latch ball
Raise tongue and rear of tow vehicle
Apply WD bars
Raise jack for transport

This process is easier with an electric tongue jack.

[RedRocket204]

myredracer wrote:
One thing that could help is if you post some photos - at least a couple of close ups of hitch and at least a couple from a distance with both TT & TV.

That TT is long at 33'-5" and heavy at 7500 lbs GVWR and could possibly be pushing the truck to it's limits unless you have the right options. A truck with a longer wheelbase would have been better for that length of trailer.

Relying on a dealer's WDH setup is not a good idea. Never trust them. They may not even have the bolts/nuts torqued properly. Did they measure the before and after front fender height? Even if they did, it would have been for an unloaded trailer and truck and when you are fully loaded the setup can change a fair bit. How much weight is restored back onto the steer axle? I thought newer Ford manuals say to restore approx. 50 percent (less than older trucks). How many chain links are under tension? You should aim for 5 links and if that transfers too much or too little weight, adjust the hitch head angle as needed. Less than 5 links may cause binding in turns. Getting a WDH set up correctly sometimes can take a lot trial and error tweaking of various things. Took me a whole season of fiddling last year to get it right, including playing with truck tire pressure, and I ended up having to get a ball with a 1" rise to get the TT to sit where it needed to be.

How much does the TT scale fully loaded for camping - is it 6900 lbs based on your 12.5 percent TW? Did you weigh the truck and subtract that from it's GVWR to get the available payload capacity? Actual payload capacity can sometimes vary a lot from the sticker number. Did you calculate the weights being transferred onto the steer and trailer axles? How much does the truck squat when you're hooked up?

It could be a combination or things, but I would say one thing that stands out is the truck's tires. If they're P rated, I would upgrade to LTs. I run our Michelin LT LRE tires at 75 psi front & 80 rear. Much less than that and it doesn't feel right. I would highly recommend some good heavy duty shocks on the truck like Bilstein. Shocks on the TT would help but that's not a simple or inexpensive bolt-on and go install. I would look at upgrading the WDH to something like a Blu Ox or Reese dual cam. We have the Reese DC hitch and it works great for us but it is not for everyone. I don't know how the two compare for sway control but I really like the proactive design of the Reese and the way it makes the truck and trailer almost snap back into line. Add the 2nd sway bar. However, it might just be at the end of the day, you need a bigger truck. We upgraded from an F150 to F250 and it is a huge improvement in towing.

Lots of good information here. Also, read the Ron Gratz link posted earlier and also, go through this thread on proper WDH set-up, similar to that other link on WDH set-up: Travel Trailer Hitch Set-up Procedure


I'm going to also disagree with those saying to add a 2nd sway control friction bar... not that one shouldn't be added but it is shocking to me about just adding the bar without first addressing the WDH set-up and sway issues you are experiencing. Adding a friction bar to a bad set-up is not fixing the issue! Sway control should be on a well functioning TT set-up where the tow is already good and sway control is there in the event an outside force causes an issue where sway control is needed.

Do yourself a favor and learn about WDH hows and whys and then work through the process of fine tuning your specific set-up. That means fine tuning with a properly loaded trailer and trying to achieve side to side load balance along with 10%-15% tongue weight siding on more tongue weight for helping to fine tune and correct bad towing manners.

[johntinacamping]

cordellm wrote:
Should I add a second anti sway control bar? I currently only have the one that came with the hitch, but now reading some other posts should I add a second or is that not really going to help my situation and just be a waste of money?

With a 28foot trailer you definitely need the second sway control bar (one on each side of the trailer tongue). It's generally recommended by etrailer.com and others to use 2 friction sway control bars with campers 25 feet long and longer. We tow a 28 foot Heartland Mallard with our HEMI Grand Cherokee and this made a world of difference for us. We have used the same EAZlift weight distribution hitch setup with a 14 foot camper, then a 19 foot camper (with only one friction sway control bar). When we moved up to the 28 foot camper we added the other anti-sway bar.