CP4 bypass kit

[F5Pro]

Has Ford ever addressed the HPFP fail in later model (2012-2017) trucks? How common is the bypass kit-do lots of folks go this route?

[ShinerBock]

FishOnOne wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:
While the newly designed CP4 pumps that go onto the 2015+ trucks appear to be more reliable, you are SOL on the 2011-2015 trucks in regards to Ford doing anything. The bypass kits do not seem to be that common on this site because most here seem to think that their brand makes a perfect truck and modifying it is heresy. Outside of these forums in the diesel modding world, these kits are very common. My brother was going to do it on his 2012 F350 before he decided to trade it in on a 2014 Ram 2500.

Since you’re bashing the owners of their perceived perfect truck why are your advertising your brother trading a truck for a 2014 Ram.

Sounds like your brand marketing again!

Awe, did someone get their feewings hurt because they can't handle the truth.

Negative Ghost Rider.... Just reporting a trend.

Trend? I think you are seeing things. The very same day I posted this, I also posted a positive about Ford having manual mode on their transmissions in another thread and how I disliked that Ram does not have that. There is no trend. I only post what I/others experience or what I like/dislike and that does not change based on a brand. Some of that may be for/against Ford and some may be for/against Ram. Just because I posted market share facts that surprised me in a recent meeting (and I thought would have surprised others here as well so I shared it) or the fact that my brother traded in his F350 for a Ram 2500 instead of this kit does not mean I am a "brand hustler".

[Huntindog]

FishOnOne wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

4x4ord wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

ScottG wrote:
For those not familiar with the situation: Bypass kit

Exactly! The kit does not keep the CP4 pump from failing, it just keeps a $1k repair from becoming a $10k repair. This is why my brother was about to install the kit before he traded in his truck. His pump was showing signs of failure and he did not want a $10k repair bill like my cousin and another friend had in their PSD's. At the last minute he decided to just trade it in on a CTD.

The complete repair kit is $3300 and the book time is 18 hours so I think that 10 -12 k number that we hear of is BS. More accurate would be to say it keeps a $1k repair from becoming a $6k repair.

Edit: It could be that if you just have your truck towed to the nearest Ford dealer and pay the bill when its time to pick up the truck you'll be dinged with a 10 - 12k repair bill but I know that is not how I would handle it if it were my truck.

As I said before.... When it happens, you may not be in a position to shop around.
Besides. even the lower numbers some of you are stating..... Are still BIG numbers.

Says the guy who had to pony up the extra cash to purchase the less than ugly front end truck. The problem is you can polish a turd all you want but at the end of the day your still left with a turd.

BTW... I sure feel sorry for all those dyed in the wool Chevy fans. :W

Are you saying that a new Ford is free?

You do realize that GM no longer uses the CP4, right?

[FishOnOne]

Huntindog wrote:

4x4ord wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

ScottG wrote:
For those not familiar with the situation: Bypass kit

Exactly! The kit does not keep the CP4 pump from failing, it just keeps a $1k repair from becoming a $10k repair. This is why my brother was about to install the kit before he traded in his truck. His pump was showing signs of failure and he did not want a $10k repair bill like my cousin and another friend had in their PSD's. At the last minute he decided to just trade it in on a CTD.

The complete repair kit is $3300 and the book time is 18 hours so I think that 10 -12 k number that we hear of is BS. More accurate would be to say it keeps a $1k repair from becoming a $6k repair.

Edit: It could be that if you just have your truck towed to the nearest Ford dealer and pay the bill when its time to pick up the truck you'll be dinged with a 10 - 12k repair bill but I know that is not how I would handle it if it were my truck.

As I said before.... When it happens, you may not be in a position to shop around.
Besides. even the lower numbers some of you are stating..... Are still BIG numbers.

Says the guy who had to pony up the extra cash to purchase the less than ugly front end truck. The problem is you can polish a turd all you want but at the end of the day your still left with a turd.

BTW... I sure feel sorry for all those dyed in the wool Chevy fans. :W

[FishOnOne]

ShinerBock wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:
While the newly designed CP4 pumps that go onto the 2015+ trucks appear to be more reliable, you are SOL on the 2011-2015 trucks in regards to Ford doing anything. The bypass kits do not seem to be that common on this site because most here seem to think that their brand makes a perfect truck and modifying it is heresy. Outside of these forums in the diesel modding world, these kits are very common. My brother was going to do it on his 2012 F350 before he decided to trade it in on a 2014 Ram 2500.

Since you’re bashing the owners of their perceived perfect truck why are your advertising your brother trading a truck for a 2014 Ram.

Sounds like your brand marketing again!

Awe, did someone get their feewings hurt because they can't handle the truth.

Negative Ghost Rider.... Just reporting a trend.

[blofgren]

ScottG wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
I think it's a good addition (without data to back it up personally) ot insurance. $300 vs $10k is an easy choice in my mind. Like dropping $200 on a secondary fileter for my 5.9 Dodge. Did lack of filtration kill my injectors in 120k miles? Idk. Will I put more than another 120k miles on it? Thought i was back in 2014, but now she sits and only gets one oil change worth of miles a year.

What I wonder about the bypass kit, looking at the schematic...
Before the kit, all the fuel ran through the whole pump providing lube (and cooling?) to the pump. Then when the pump spit it's guts (which has been revised in the CP4.2 design), the guts went out with the fuel to the rail.
With the new design, does the pump just run on whatever fuel is left in there? Ie, getting dirty/old/contaminated?

Also, why has S&S not marketed a kit for the Duramax, same pump, same issues (but purportedly better warranty coverage)?

It sounds like full flow is maintained to the cam section for lubrication and cooling. Then that fuel is sent back to the tank rather than through the fuel system and back to the tank.

The part that gets me is they claim it doesn't effect your trucks warranty. I would bet otherwise. As one guy commented, Ford looked for any reason not to cover his repair and you can bet they would deny any responsibility if aftermarket parts are attached to thier pump - and rightfully so. And I too, wonder why there's no kit for DM or Cummins.
I would put it on after the warranty expires.

I certainly see what you're saying, but Ford is well known for denying these warranty claims anyway, which still leaves the owner on the hook even when the truck is still in "warranty". As I said before, my CP4 Disaster Prevention Kit consists solely of refusing to buy any truck that has one! :B

[ShinerBock]

4x4ord wrote:


If you put the by pass kit on does it prevent a tow bill, tank removal, low pressure side flush and filter change? All 3 kits (2011 - 2020) online are $3300 plus $1500 fully refundable injector core charge. There is no core on the pump. (I am surprised they include 2020 in with 2017 - 2019, might be a mistake?)
online price
If someone wanted the work done at a Ford dealership Ford would have to provide the kit at the online price or the person could order it online and just have Ford provide the labor. I don't think I would have any preference for a Ford garage to perform the labor if the truck was off warranty. And, as others have said, if the truck is still under warranty putting the bypass kit on might give a reason for the manufacturer to not cover the repair.

The 2020 is not a mistake on the new ones. We have sold a few in the past year for 2017+ trucks. They are selling some of those kits for less than my company, a Ford dealer group, can buy them from Ford. I would call and confirm that they are in fact the parts they should be.

[4x4ord]

ShinerBock wrote:

4x4ord wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

ScottG wrote:
For those not familiar with the situation: Bypass kit

Exactly! The kit does not keep the CP4 pump from failing, it just keeps a $1k repair from becoming a $10k repair. This is why my brother was about to install the kit before he traded in his truck. His pump was showing signs of failure and he did not want a $10k repair bill like my cousin and another friend had in their PSD's. At the last minute he decided to just trade it in on a CTD.

The complete repair kit is $3300 and the book time is 18 hours so I think that 10 -12 k number that we hear of is BS. More accurate would be to say it keeps a $1k repair from becoming a $6k repair.

Repair kit EC3Z-9B246-B price varies greatly from the dealer to online stores. Then there is the factor whether your injectors and pump are still a good core or not which could increase the cost to $5k. In most cases, not all of the cores are good enough to return so you will be paying extra for that.

Labor rates also vary at our several Ford dealerships depending on severity. You also have to add time for dropping the tank along with environmental fee for disposing the diesel. This cost varies depending on how much fuel was in the tank. You also have the cost of a fuel filter change(which does not come with the kit) and to flush the lines from the tank to engine.

Add it all up along with tow charge and a 6-10% sales tax then you are very well sitting at or near $10k based on on the repair orders in our shops.

Edit: The cost of the kit varies depending on year.
EC3Z-9B246-B is from 2011-2014 and cost around $3,300 plus core
FC3Z-9B246-B is from 2014-2016 and costs around $4,300 plus core

Last year, my company has sold over 50 of the EC3Z-9B246-B and 5 of the FC3Z-9B246-B.

If you put the by pass kit on does it prevent a tow bill, tank removal, low pressure side flush and filter change? All 3 kits (2011 - 2020) online are $3300 plus $1500 fully refundable injector core charge. There is no core on the pump. (I am surprised they include 2020 in with 2017 - 2019, might be a mistake?)
online price
If someone wanted the work done at a Ford dealership Ford would have to provide the kit at the online price or the person could order it online and just have Ford provide the labor. I don't think I would have any preference for a Ford garage to perform the labor if the truck was off warranty. And, as others have said, if the truck is still under warranty putting the bypass kit on might give a reason for the manufacturer to not cover the repair.

[wnjj]

ScottG wrote:
And I too, wonder why there's no kit for DM or Cummins.

On the DMax at least, I think it's because there isn't a lift pump. With the bypass kit installed, there's nothing to push/pull fuel into the cam side of things.

[ScottG]

Grit dog wrote:
I think it's a good addition (without data to back it up personally) ot insurance. $300 vs $10k is an easy choice in my mind. Like dropping $200 on a secondary fileter for my 5.9 Dodge. Did lack of filtration kill my injectors in 120k miles? Idk. Will I put more than another 120k miles on it? Thought i was back in 2014, but now she sits and only gets one oil change worth of miles a year.

What I wonder about the bypass kit, looking at the schematic...
Before the kit, all the fuel ran through the whole pump providing lube (and cooling?) to the pump. Then when the pump spit it's guts (which has been revised in the CP4.2 design), the guts went out with the fuel to the rail.
With the new design, does the pump just run on whatever fuel is left in there? Ie, getting dirty/old/contaminated?

Also, why has S&S not marketed a kit for the Duramax, same pump, same issues (but purportedly better warranty coverage)?

It sounds like full flow is maintained to the cam section for lubrication and cooling. Then that fuel is sent back to the tank rather than through the fuel system and back to the tank.

The part that gets me is they claim it doesn't effect your trucks warranty. I would bet otherwise. As one guy commented, Ford looked for any reason not to cover his repair and you can bet they would deny any responsibility if aftermarket parts are attached to thier pump - and rightfully so. And I too, wonder why there's no kit for DM or Cummins.
I would put it on after the warranty expires.

[Huntindog]

4x4ord wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

ScottG wrote:
For those not familiar with the situation: Bypass kit

Exactly! The kit does not keep the CP4 pump from failing, it just keeps a $1k repair from becoming a $10k repair. This is why my brother was about to install the kit before he traded in his truck. His pump was showing signs of failure and he did not want a $10k repair bill like my cousin and another friend had in their PSD's. At the last minute he decided to just trade it in on a CTD.

The complete repair kit is $3300 and the book time is 18 hours so I think that 10 -12 k number that we hear of is BS. More accurate would be to say it keeps a $1k repair from becoming a $6k repair.

Edit: It could be that if you just have your truck towed to the nearest Ford dealer and pay the bill when its time to pick up the truck you'll be dinged with a 10 - 12k repair bill but I know that is not how I would handle it if it were my truck.

As I said before.... When it happens, you may not be in a position to shop around.
Besides. even the lower numbers some of you are stating..... Are still BIG numbers.

[Grit_dog]

4x4ord wrote:


The complete repair kit is $3300 and the book time is 18 hours so I think that 10 -12 k number that we hear of is BS. More accurate would be to say it keeps a $1k repair from becoming a $6k repair.

Edit: It could be that if you just have your truck towed to the nearest Ford dealer and pay the bill when its time to pick up the truck you'll be dinged with a 10 - 12k repair bill but I know that is not how I would handle it if it were my truck.

But you are not the average soccerdad consumer who only knows that his new Ford Powermax is kooler than his neighbors Durastroke....or whatever they call them things. And that its def, like def jam on MTV back when he was in hi school.

For that dude, it's $10k as soon as the tow truck pulls his new Durapad, or was it Powerpad, sht I forgot, truck to the stealer.
There's mechanics in the back Indian Leg wrestling to see who's gonna get to milk some sucker for twice the going rate!

As I'm sure you and other guys like Fish, 12V, Scott, Shiner have seen, you can prevent, fix, advise, and most importantly understand.
Soccer dad don't understand...
He!!, I had to fix the bike tires on my nephews bikes, because their dad couldn't figure out how to plug the leak around the air thingy!
He has enough money to float the payment on a new truck. How much you think they'll charge him??

[ShinerBock]

4x4ord wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

ScottG wrote:
For those not familiar with the situation: Bypass kit

Exactly! The kit does not keep the CP4 pump from failing, it just keeps a $1k repair from becoming a $10k repair. This is why my brother was about to install the kit before he traded in his truck. His pump was showing signs of failure and he did not want a $10k repair bill like my cousin and another friend had in their PSD's. At the last minute he decided to just trade it in on a CTD.

The complete repair kit is $3300 and the book time is 18 hours so I think that 10 -12 k number that we hear of is BS. More accurate would be to say it keeps a $1k repair from becoming a $6k repair.

Repair kit EC3Z-9B246-B price varies greatly from the dealer to online stores. Then there is the factor whether your injectors and pump are still a good core or not which could increase the cost to $5k. In most cases, not all of the cores are good enough to return so you will be paying extra for that.

Labor rates also vary at our several Ford dealerships depending on severity. You also have to add time for dropping the tank along with environmental fee for disposing the diesel. This cost varies depending on how much fuel was in the tank. You also have the cost of a fuel filter change(which does not come with the kit) and to flush the lines from the tank to engine.

Add it all up along with tow charge and a 6-10% sales tax then you are very well sitting at or near $10k based on on the repair orders in our shops.

Edit: The cost of the kit varies depending on year.
EC3Z-9B246-B is from 2011-2014 and cost around $3,300 plus core
FC3Z-9B246-B is from 2014-2016 and costs around $4,300 plus core

Last year, my company has sold over 50 of the EC3Z-9B246-B and 5 of the FC3Z-9B246-B.

[4x4ord]

ShinerBock wrote:

ScottG wrote:
For those not familiar with the situation: Bypass kit

Exactly! The kit does not keep the CP4 pump from failing, it just keeps a $1k repair from becoming a $10k repair. This is why my brother was about to install the kit before he traded in his truck. His pump was showing signs of failure and he did not want a $10k repair bill like my cousin and another friend had in their PSD's. At the last minute he decided to just trade it in on a CTD.

The complete repair kit is $3300 and the book time is 18 hours so I think that 10 -12 k number that we hear of is BS. More accurate would be to say it keeps a $1k repair from becoming a $6k repair.

Edit: It could be that if you just have your truck towed to the nearest Ford dealer and pay the bill when its time to pick up the truck you'll be dinged with a 10 - 12k repair bill but I know that is not how I would handle it if it were my truck.

[BenK]

Am NOT a diesel person, but am very interested in this thread...

Now that gassers are coming out with DICI (no spark plug) and assuming much higher gas PSI's...do they have a high pressure fuel pump similar to the diesel HPFP?

Learned a ton on that Bosch HPFP during the couple years reading up on a form members unfortunate experience

Pure dumb @$$ design by Bosch engineers. Made worse by management sticking with the original architecture and forcing band aids

Dumb @$$ by not capturing the piston to the cam and only depending on the fuel's PSI to force the piston to stay on the cam (caged desmodromic valve actuator would have been much better). Ditto using diesel as both lube and coolant (engine oil would have been much wiser). Ditto stacks of piezo silicon chip actuators in the injectors (glass is brittle).

Am in the hunt for info on the new gasser DICI fuel system, but not enough yet. Hope they didn't back themselves into a corner like the Bosch HPFP